Satan... biblical hero?

[geek mode]
/me gasps and points at blackguard

You infidel! I meant the HitchHikers Guide.. tsssk.. that's basic knowledge you n00b

[/geek mode]

 

I was sure of that, which, of course, is why I brought them up to argue against letting people have false beliefs which others use against them.

Well, there is right and wrong. Of course, technically, to say "making an incorrect statement is wrong" is both.

It is not arrogance. I hope you are intelligent enough to realize how clever I truly am.

I obviously don't know everything. However, there are truths that I do know. These truths happen to have false beliefs that oppose them (such as the belief that no beliefs are false).

The pressure is off then. If someone can know the truth in the midst of lies, it follows that it is allright to lie about your beliefs. Remember, I am not yet 30, so I still enjoy telling the truth a majority of the time.

Really, I am interested in getting you to say what you truly believe, but I don't think you (or I) will convey the truth unless spurred to do so.

Ahh, so your false beliefs were changed in the past?

All I want (now) is for you to acknowledge that some people hold false beliefs and if they acknowledge that these beliefs are false it can help them find some truth(s). Such as your belief that all beliefs are equally valid (which you negated with your statement "I think I was wrong before, once or twice, and it didn't bother me to learn it."). This is you acknowledging that you had incorrect beliefs before (whatever they were) and they were changed somehow. Maybe you can now admit that your belief that all beliefs are equally valid is wrong, which in turn overthrows the belief that we should allow all beliefs to exist in peace (not argue against them) because educating someone about the falseness of their belief will result in war (because you and I are not at war, yet ).

Ohh yeah.... 62nd post!!!

 

To me, similar experiences define us as well as experiences that we do not share (as of yet). You might be of the perception that definition is only made by differences, which is a very valid perspective when applied in the correct manner.

Dreams? For me, I read a book, and all of the sudden things in the book are happening in the world around me. If this didn't happen often/ in very wierd ways I would write it off, but I don't. Other things happen as well, but I don't really want to talk about them for some reason.

When my girlfriend is asleep, and I am sitting there thinking, she sometimes responds to my thoughts by talking in her sleep (channeling God, in my eyes). I am pretty amused by this.

No.

Cool. I don't see how this opposes the fact that people can have false beliefs (including either the belief that you are lying or the belief that you are telling the truth- one of these beliefs has to be false for the other one to be true).

My hypocrisy only goes so far.

I think there may be a semantical misunderstanding in your statement:
I stand by the fact that we do share a common reality (the totality of real things or events), although we all percieve it differently.

Of course I do, if the information is valid proof of actual contact with a spirit(s).

I think both (fiction and non) are useful. Sometimes it takes a spoonful of sugar to help the medicine go down, in the most delightful way.

Time to go Grandpa Simpson on your ass: Ohh, I think I read the HHG 2 times, once when I was 13, once later because I was curious about it. There was a bbs in my hometown called "The Heart of Gold" (obviously pre-web, 2400 bps...) with a sysop who went by the name of Ford Prefect. There was also a bbs called tbawl that had a half decent download section. Flynn's place had pirated games on it (got neuromancer off of it- 2-360k disks) used to use z-modem protocol, although later on I liked jmodem. So I was playing neuromancer and noticed how awesome it was and decided to read William Gibson's book.... <snore>..... Abe out cold...

 

BlackGuard.

Yes, a conundrum..

Maybe emotion requires reason to understand that emotion is greater than reason [sometimes].
In the case of love, friendship, trust..it is.
While in the case of hate, greed. self interest...it is not.
Reason defines emotions..Otherwise there would be no language to call them names.

Without a ballance of the two..................
Well, look at our world that WE HAVE MADE.

Occam

 

Heh ... reminds me of a quote of yours, from a while ago, Occam. About reason being one eye, and emotion being the other. If you pluck one out, you lose depth perception.

=)

 

I should have figured that out, and learned it just seconds ago, in reading the post just above yours....lol
I never read it, so my ignorance does have an excuse, however lame.....
I only read maybe one fiction book a year, and usually they are novels like the last one I read "Soul Mountain", or the one previous, "Love in the time of Cholera."
I never read "Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance.", or "The Celestine Prophecy", or "The Da Vinci Code", or any Stephen King books, though I have seen over a dozen film versions.
I guess I am just a noob for life, BG13

 

Quote:
You missed my point. If some lady says that a spirit guide named Herbert, who smokes, tells her information from 'the other side', contacts dead relatives and friends for her, if requested, and helps her convince ghosts to vacate their previous homes, for people with haunted houses.......do you believe her?
I do. That was my point.

Of course I do, if the information is valid proof of actual contact with a spirit(s).

Quote:
I think you read the hitchikers guide one too many times, try non-fiction, it is more useful, imho.

Blessings, BG13
</FONT>

I think both (fiction and non) are useful. Sometimes it takes a spoonful of sugar to help the medicine go down, in the most delightful way.

Time to go Grandpa Simpson on your ass: Ohh, I think I read the HHG 2 times, once when I was 13, once later because I was curious about it. There was a bbs in my hometown called "The Heart of Gold" (obviously pre-web, 2400 bps...) with a sysop who went by the name of Ford Prefect. There was also a bbs called tbawl that had a half decent download section. Flynn's place had pirated games on it (got neuromancer off of it- 2-360k disks) used to use z-modem protocol, although later on I liked jmodem. So I was playing neuromancer and noticed how awesome it was and decided to read William Gibson's book.... <snore>..... Abe out cold...
Regarding my friend who helped others with hauntings. I had no proof offered, and none was required by me. She told me many different stories, even cases where her guide told her not to go cuz she couldn't help. I take your reply to mean you would believe her if she proved it, which to me says you would not believe her without it, which is not believing someone in my view.
I agree, novels are useful, entertaining, and educational. That is why I make a point of picking one each year to read. bg13

Quote:
You say you know the truth, but I say you don't know mine, and though I am not certain of it, I doubt you ever will.
I obviously don't know everything. However, there are truths that I do know. These truths happen to have false beliefs that oppose them (such as the belief that no beliefs are false).

I agree with you that not all beliefs are true, imho. Like the belief that it is okay to commit murder, rape, etc. I mean that I believe whatever faith one chooses, including atheism, they can be just as spiritual as anyone else.bg13

Quote:
I don't want to change your beliefs, and they do not cause me distress, but when you try to change mine, I must inform you, you are in for a tough go.
Really, I am interested in getting you to say what you truly believe, but I don't think you (or I) will convey the truth unless spurred to do so.

I believe in magic, miracles, the power of prayer, the goodness of people, spirit guides, the soul, reincarnation, love can cure hate, live and let live, and that all good folks of any faith have a true, valid spirituality, as real as mine or yours, or anyones.
I have posted my beliefs constantly, and love sharing what I believe, so you are quite off in that guess. It is just you that has that reluctance, I guess. I am not sure why you would though.

 

I feel that language does attempt to define emotions, but falls short imho.
The term unconditional love is an example of what I mean. It does convey a concept that is basically representative of what I feel this love means, though it is my feeling that such a quality is beyond words to capture in its totality.
The balance is truly critical, though, reason is to me the less valuable half of the two.

 

GOD wins. (Kinda

"Why would a perfects beings pride be hurt if you didn't believe in him...

Why would he care?"

Because He loves you??

"Lucifer was beyond the petty idea of being revered by people.

Score another one for the devil."

The devil is a creature of God's

GOD wins.

WE all win.

 

WADR: satan was a hero. So was Job. So was Jesus. So was Jimi Hendrix. Oh wait, sorry he wasn't in it yet.

 

smlchance:

I promise you, Jimi Hendrix will be in the Bible if and when the second messiah comes to town. =)

 

I hope so, he opened up a lot of minds and promoted love. There are so many recent singer/songwriters that could be mentioned, like Woody Guthrie, Bob Marley, John Lennon, Jim Morrison, Janice Joplin, and many more.
I just wonder what the messiah will look like, and if the predictions that this time the visit will be disciplinarian, with our just rewards for our historical records being paid to us. My guess is that those rewards will not be pleasant, for most of us, self included. What if Mother Teresa was the messiah? We missed it then.

 

Isn't it a rule that the messiah has to be crucified or something?

I don't think a ham sandwich classifies as appropriate death for all of humanity's sin ... while Mother Theresa was definately a great figure, I don't think she could have been the messiah.

Though I would really like to see a female messiah. Something to remind everyone that big figures don't have to be men all the time.

(*cough* not that any of this will likely ever actually happen ... heh)

 

I heard that the approaching visit is supposed to be more like a house cleaning, the messiah shows up with a flaming sword, and goes to work on the evil doers. It is about time in my view, and I hope that the prediction is right. It is about time for a good cleansing, or purification. We have gotten too big for our britches.
I bet the messiah will be a woman, and my hope is that she is a very shapely, and stunningly beautiful one, and is either Australian Aborigine, Native American, of African. And that she gives us no quarter, and spares us no mercy for our misdeeds. Bring it on, sis.

 

Agreed!

As a person, I have tried my best to live my life as morally as possible, so I say I've got nothing to fear of a messiah coming, except if God decides to care about whether or not I believe in him without ever showing me personally any proof whatsoever. If he has a problem with that, then Satan's probably a better god to revere, and I shall gladly head off for Hell and become a demon, huhahahahaha!!

Hmm ... that flaming sword idea isn't bad, it's not bad at all ...

 

Hikaru

Hey..forgot all about that one. cool...
Will have to add it to 'favourite aphorisms by occam'
[for a sum total of 2]

Occam

 

Blackguard.

And emotion tries to understand reason, and cannot....imho.

You suggest reason is the less valuable half. To you , that may be so.
To our race. Both MUST be given equal standing.

To use the quote hikaru remembered from an earlier rave by occam.
WIthout both eyes[reason/emotion], there is no depth perception.

If one is favoured... the other atrophies.

Occam

 

Hikaru

If only for the miracle of playing an upsidedown guitar.

['hey man ..where are my ear goggles'...quote from bootleg.]

Occam

 

I certainly can attest that my years of focus on reason definitely were at the expense of my emotional growth. This is likely why emotion is more important to me now. It is something I have been working on quite seriously for the past ten years or so, with some success.
The idea that emotion/reason are equally important is one I have recognized and accepted since at least 1980, and I now feel emotion is more important cuz I view it as being the source of love, or heart, and reason as being logic, or mind. In the context of love and logic, I agree both are necessary, and also know that my view is not rational. Still, I would rather live in a slightly less logical world, than a slightly less loving one.
In the end, I think they are both so intertwined that it is my view that it is logical to love, and it is an act of love to be logical.

 

Blackguard

Occam believes Emotion is the Why..[the desire to do]
And reason is the How.[the best way to do it.]

Our world is 95 % emotion with the remaining 5% MOSTLY REASON 'DOMINATED BY EMOTION'

To achieve ballance..we must evolve psychologically.
As we are doing right now..but it will take a LONG time.

Occam