Revelations of an Elite Family Insider...

that is a very wise saying. i'm going to assume that what you were saying was largely in response to me. what is great about being young is that we still have so much to learn and are just so much more open to it than most older people. one of the main reasons i post on these forums is to keep a record of my thoughts. i think that while what you are saying is true that doesn't mean that one can't also see divinity in all aspects of their life. so let me respond to your quote with another quote:

- The Hidden Power, by Thomas Troward

 

Quote:
The understanding which alone gives value to knowledge is the understanding that, when we employ the formula "I am, therefore I can, therefore I will," the "I AM" with which the series starts is a being who, so to speak, has his head in heaven and his feet upon the earth, a perfect unity, and with a range of ideas far transcending the little ideas which are limited by the requirements of a day or an hour. On the other hand, the requirements of the day and the hour are real while they last, and since the manifested life can be lived only in the moment that now is, whether it be to-day or ten thousand years hence, our need is to harmonise the life of expression with the life of purpose, and by realising in ourselves the source of the highest purposes to realise also the life of the fullest expression.

Them's a lotta words fer only 2 sentences!

 

yea i just realised that too lol. but i guess it's gramatically correct, otherwise it wouldn't have been published.

 

tell that to jack kerouac

 

PBSmith knows what hes talking about.

heres a similar quote from another angle

[SIZE=+1]Those who see worldly life as an obstacle to Dharma
see no Dharma in everyday actions.
They have not yet discovered that
there are no everyday actions outside of Dharma.
Dogen


[/SIZE]

 

On the "Insider" and "Hidden Hand" topics the reason I doubt the truth of the identity of the person behind the posts are..
1) As I stated earlier he presented nothing new. The thoughts and topics have been around for ages, as the poster himself stated, going back before known history. All the information presented is readily available in print and online.
2) His initial target audience were forums devoted to that type of conspiracy, convoluted, quasi mystical X-files type of stuff. He knew he would generate LOTS of responses, much more so than if he posted on a more widely open public forum. If he really wanted to get the message out than why only target groups who are already familiar with the ideas he put forth?
3) The whole "plan" and workings of the spiritual realms were to complex and convoluted in my opinion. One thing I do know and observe daily is the fact that nature ALWAYS takes the path of least resistance and the simplest answers are the best and truest. Occam's razor holds true in the universe I observe.
To summarize the principle as it is most commonly understood, “Of several acceptable explanations for a phenomenon, the simplest is preferable.”
Water always seeks it's own level, chemical reactions are very simple exchanges of electrons always seeking equilibrium. Planets fall into balanced orbits, on and on it goes in the material universe. I think most all religions hold that the material world is a manifestation of the spiritual world. I guess that is one main reason I like string theory, It fits and parallels what many believe about the spiritual world, it's simple (relatively speaking, the math would make my brain bleed) and it feels like it fits with what we observe and know. But I'm always open, science is always tentative
This guys system, in my opinion is far to convoluted compared to the rest of the universe.

Am I certain that the individual(s), Insider and Hidden Hand are not who or what they claim to be? No, I've been wrong in the past and will be in the future, I just have my doubts.
Do I believe the Illuminati exist? Verdict still out on that one.
Do I believe in a hierarchy of beings who exist on different levels than us? Pretty much yeah.

Do I still love shit like this? You betcha! It keeps me on my toes and always reassessing my own belief paradigm.

I personally feel that to discount anything or anyone out of hand is folly. If you are on a quest for knowledge and enlightenment than ALL must be considered and evaluated. In a closed system, which is what our universe by virtue of it's definition is, everything is interconnected to some degree. I don't think anything in our human existence is a complete fabrication, everything has some truth to it somewhere otherwise it would not exist, whether real or imaginary.

 

Does that mean because I'm twenty odd years older than you there is less for me to learn? Are you implying that like Kelly Bundy my mind can only hold so much and once it's full that's it ? There isn't less for me to learn, it's just different things to learn. This journey is an ongoing learning process that never ends. I know it's very cliché' but oh so true that the more you learn the less you know. There may be life lessons that you have already mastered that I haven't even started yet. That's the beauty of it. The very thought of your statement is just what I meant by certain wisdom ONLY comes with years.
Is it really that younger people are really that much more open to new things or is it that older people are more experienced and have "been there, done that". Youth does have an air of arrogance about it that tells you deep in your being that you are the first to do or feel think such and such. The same gentleman I quoted earlier also told me he used to smoke "reefer" in the '40's when he was a teen and he couldn't understand what all the commotion about loud rock and roll was all about. He said you haven't heard loud until you're in a dance hall listening to Tommy Dorsey and his band playing 30 feet away, that's LOUD! Remember, there is nothing new under the sun, what was will be again. I think by you making that statement you provided an endorsement to what I said.

I never said that, every moment of every day I am fully aware that I am a spiritual being traveling in a material vehicle and I stand in constant awe of all that transpires. But I don't go looking for reasons to go "see I told you".
Those happen enough without having to be on the lookout for them.
I won't bore you with details but suffice it say that ever since "opening up spiritually" there have not been many surprises in my life. Every significant person or event or place, once there I am struck by a sense of familiarity like "Oh Yeah, this is where I'm supposed to be in my life at this time."
I think my intent was that when you are eagerly seeking such things it is much easier to accept the words of one like the Insider or Hidden Hand without being healthily skeptical. That is how the Charlie Manson's of the world are able to ensnare people. They so want to believe that they completely suspend judgment and accept what they are being told without honestly evaluating it.

 

man, i hope we aren't getting into this again. lol. remember the 'do you really?' thread? http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=342406&f=117

its things like this that require a developed understanding. it is easier to misinterpret something like this than actually gain any kind of truth or understanding from it.

sure essentially the duality of nature is founded in oneness. you cannot stray from the path. righteousness and virtue is a null point. but that does not mean you should run around doing whatever the fuck you want.

 

yea, i was speaking in generalities. i wasn't saying that anyone has more to learn, just younger people tend to know less because they havn't had as much experience. as to 'the more you learn the less you know,' i guess that maybe this could only come with time. but mainly what i meant was: as a whole, most older people are much more closed-minded than those still in their youth. i mean of course there are exceptions, and of course some will have more wisdom. but i can easily see how it would be easy to get trapped into false wisdom with the justification being that 'well i have had more experience and i am older, so i must know more than they do' -- and i know many, many people like that. having the experiences, and learning from them are two different things entirely.

also i meant that it is a whole lot easier for younger people to actualise that which they have learned and try to make a difference, because there is nothing holding them back. that isn't so easy when you have a wife and a family and a lifelong career tieing you down.

funny that you should say that youth has an air of arrogance about them. i would say that older people have an air of arrogance about them. as if their age gives them some kind of self-assured superiority in their knowledge over those that are younger than them. i mean in certain cases, sure. but if there is one thing i have learned it is that age is not a very accurate indicator of maturity, wisdom, or how much experience someone has had. i for one know that i have been through more distress and tribulations than most will in their entire lifetimes, and i am still young!

i think that people of all ages have alot to learn from eachother, if we would only open up and stop being so self-richeous and discounting eachother's knowledge.

you also need to understand that the world you grew up in is completely different from the world people are growing up in today. even just a few years makes a world of difference.

ok, that i'll agree with

 

I'm 48 close to you so I can comment on this. We have more experience than younger people generally but younger people have an easier time adapting and learning new things. Yes they have to learn what we learned but so much more these days. Life was simpler before cell phones and computers. Remember?

Kids nowadays have to deal with more and the same things we dealt with.

LSD is another thing for youth to deal with and I think overall they have adapted quite well. No it's not the 60s so they aren't going to duplicate the summer of love etc...but they will with their own version.

You must be a parent at your age like I am 5 times over, so you can tell that the youth of today are better equipped to adapt and absorb information.

We drive cars and fly on planes but 100 years ago our relatives were not doing that. I had my first calculator at 12 years old. Texas Instruments just came out with them. Kids nowaday have that on their cell phone or iphone.

Society as a whole is become more educated and know what we knew but at a younger age.

Theres something to be said for experience but we can't rest on our laurels while the youth of today is continually learning new things. We need to be learning what they are learning. It's easier for them to learn what we know than for us oldtimers to learn what they know.

 

I guess that all depends on what you consider simpler. Your right we didn't have computers and all the nifty new technology that exists today. When I had to do a paper for school I had to go to the library, go through the card file, find the book on the shelf and read it, many times over for one paper. Then I had to type it on a typewriter, check my own spelling and grammar, etc. Now all my kids have to do is "Google it", pull up 1000's of reference materials, type it up using Word or some similar program that does all the spell checking and grammar corrections and print it out. So what was simpler, then or now?

The biggest difference nowadays is that information is much more readily available, yet the kids today are really not required to utilize it the way we were. High schools constantly churn out "Graduates" who read and write at a level that I mastered in 3rd grade, just reading through these forums attests to that. I know that is a generalization, but a valid one.
I see appalling errors in grammar and spelling in print and on TV all the time yet they are accepted or not even noticed. Just today I noticed on a box for one of those "easy-up" shade awnings in bold print it declared "64 SQUARE FEET OF COVERAGE" and right below that it stated the dimensions of the cover to be 10'x10', just the cover not the frame. I pointed that out to my 22 year old son and had to explain to him what was wrong!
I see shit like that every day. When I first started to use a computer you had to actually know commands and type them in at a "command prompt", now all you have to do is click on the cute little icon, and every incarnation of Windows is "dumbed down" more than the previous one.
So I don't really agree with you that society as a whole is more educated, actually it is quite the opposite. The information is more readily available than ever before, people just aren't required to make use of it.
How many times do we see the same lame-ass dumb shit questions on this forum about LSD? Hell when I first took it you had to REALLY dig to find unbiased factual information about it. I still managed to learn more about it than what I see the average poster on this forum exhibits. Now it is literally at a persons fingertips, and STILL people post the most ignorant questions on this forum, that is why I have so few posts here, the majority of content is lame and asinine.

And there are a lot of things they won't learn until they become oldtimers to.
The type of learning I am referring to is life lessons that can't be learned from a computer screen or ipod. Wisdom is not the same as education.
Humankind has been the same since the beginning and the type of wisdom I refer to has always been the same. Some things you just can not learn from a book, you have to live them to KNOW them.
You can read all you want about pregnancy and birth and child rearing and child psychology. But until you witness (from the male perspective) the birth of your child and hold it for the first time and then go on to raise it until they have kids of their own, you don't know jack-shit about it.
Until I had my first child I didn't know what unconditional love was. Sure I knew the concept, what defined it, what it was from a religious view point and from a secular aspect as well. I was familiar with the philosophical idea of loving without conditions or reciprocation. But the first time I held my daughter when she was minutes old, at that instant I KNEW unconditional love, giving and receiving. It put all I thought I knew into a whole new light and religious concepts of love I had been taught took on a completely new deeper and profound meaning.
No amount of reading, researching and Googling will teach you the lessons learned by doing.
Hey when I was 20 I had the world by the balls and my parents didn't know what I knew. I was the master of my world and wasn't anybody gonna tell me different! Now I witness the stupid shit my kids in their early 20's do with all the arrogance and bravado they can muster and just smirk at me when I try to offer advice and think "Was I really ever that naive to?" Well of course I was, it's all part of growing up!
Life teaches you stuff and some of that is only learned through being on the planet longer.

 

Not quite what I meant. Your post seemed to indicate that the heart recognizes truth at a deeper level than conscious thought. I was merely asking if that's true, then if his heart tells him otherwise, does that make it true? What about the thousands, if not millions of evangelicals who honestly believe that the earth was created in 6 literal days? Or the Mormons, who gain so many converts by asking them to read the Book of Mormon, who then "feel" it is the true church?

I may have taken your post completely wrong though, and if that is the case, I apologize.


As far as insider and hidden hand go, some of the things resonate with me on a spiritual and logical level, but alot of it is coming off as some guy who likes the illusion of superiority that it provides him as he caters to people who are already inclined to believe that kind of stuff.

PB_Smith is making the most logical posts in this thread thus far, so kudos to you

 

TY

 

I understand that a lot better than you my friend, I was there and can make the comparisons. Even though I was young I can still vividly remember the news every night showing footage from Vietnam, gruesome shit too. Now they won't even show the caskets arriving in the states from Iraq. My older sister had friends she went to school with come back in little baggies because they were drafted and sent to die. Every generation has their own unique trials and tribulations to contend with. My parents were born during the depression and grew-up during WW2. My Grandfather was scarred for life from mustard gas at the age of 19 in WW1 and his father and cousins died from the Influenza pandemic in 1918. His mother spent half her life on a reservation, and saw her ancestral land stolen from her and her parents murdered. She was native American. Shall we continue to go back through time?
Again your statement validates my point. Every generation when they reach the late teens into the late twenties feel that no one before them has had to go through what they are going through. Hell you have it pretty easy compared to what my parents and grand parents went thru.
The only thing that is different is YOU! (not you specifically, but people in general) At that age you become much more aware of the world around you, develop moral sensibilities and decry the injustices you see and the mistakes of previous generations. It has been going on like that since the beginning of civilization.
I think the youth of today actually have it pretty easy comparatively speaking. But in 25 years your kids will be telling you that you just don't understand how hard it is for them, and you never had to deal with what they deal , etc., etc.
At that time think back to this thread would you?
I don't want to seem like an ass, you strike as one of the more intelligent posters in this forum so I mean no disrespect, but kind of like this "Hidden Hand" says about us not understanding due to our being in the 3rd Density, there are some things that just aren't apparent to you yet at your current age and station in life, but will be as you grow and get older.

 

not only was that not the point of the quote, but that's obviously not the point i was trying to make. why would i be saying "do whatever you want" in a thread where the discussion is about whether or not person X is saying stuff that makes sense? it's simply not what my point is. nor what Dogen meant.

let me try and explain

Those who see wordly life as an obstacle to great cosmic transcendental truth
are silly
they have not yet learned
there is nothing in wordly life that is not great cosmic transcendental truth

when you see dick cheney is the buddha
then you understand

 

NOOOO!!!! PLEASE NOOOOO!!
Say it ain't so. Make it go away ma ! Make it go away!!

 

do you now?

i'm not saying that living today is any harder than it was in the past, just that it is entirely different and thus will provide a completely different quality of experience. the lense you looked through when you were young, and the lense you are looking through now, just isn't the same as the lense that the youth is looking through today. although the points of view and wisdom of the older generation are nothing to be taken lightly, they are in many ways jaded. take for example the point of view of an innocent child. they know nothing, but are in many ways brilliant because of that.

although i will agree with you that the youth does have a certain degree of arrogance. but that does not mean that it is for the same reasons every generation, and that there isn't something unique to be learned from it every time. part of that is just growing up, but part of it also has to do with society. kids today just didn't grow up with the same conditioning as there was in the 60s. every generation becomes more corrupt and spiritually braindead than the last.

let me ask you, how easy was it for you to find a job when you got out of college? a horrendous percentage of college graduates are being employed today. this is one of the things that we have to overcome. while we are not unique in having tribulations that confront us, this just isn't going to have the same effect on society as say, vietnam. different times have different tribulations, and thus the effect on society and on the individual is different.

your statements have also served well to validate my points

sorry lol, just making sure

--

sorry for all the edits. i think im done now lol, at 37 after.

 

whether you meditate in front of a wooden buddha

or create wars and get rich

you are performing the verb of universe

 

The youth of today have the benefit of 'collective wisdom' something that has allowed mankind to advance in technology and sciences, etc. Each generation as a whole advances beyond our ancestors.

Usually older people like us think we know it all and 'been there-done that' attitude which is exactly the type of attitude which stymies our learning potential.

 

Yes, because I Lived that which you can only read about, just as I can only read about the era my parents grew up in. Can you truelly explain and convey what your experiences on Salvia were to me in a fashion that I would then know it even though I have never tried it?
Of course not. I think you are missing my point that the really important stuff in life can only be learned and understood by experiencing them. Some of those only come with growing older.

I agree with that statement completely
But as I said before the stages that we humans go through as we mature are pretty much the same for everyone. The stage that I am referring to does start in the teen years and continues into the mid-late twenty's. It has nothing at all to do with the state of the world at the time, it has everything to do with human development. Look back through history and you will see every generation has it's "awakening movement" in the youth of that time.
Is that bad, no, it is actually what helps keep our species socially evolving.
Is it new now in this generation, no, it's only new to the youth experiencing it.

You are exhibiting a very egocentric viewpoint in this because you are implying that someone of my age couldn't possibly know what you are talking about. What you don't see is your assumption that I haven't already gone through much of the same things that you are going through now, not external social issues, but rather internal self awareness and growth.

As are the points of view of many young people.

So are you saying that you are more corrupt and spiritually braindead than I am? All the more reason to give an ear to the wisdom us old farts can impart.

(not sure what you meant by that)
Actually I had to quite school to work full time to care for my mother who was Bi-polar. My problem now is that being laid off and out of work I am contending for jobs with people half my age that don't know a F***ing thing about the job when I have decades of experience, but lacking a degree I more often than not are over looked .


On a side note and to be a little bit of an ass, in another post in this thread I mentioned about the lack of solid education today, do you realize that you mispelled the word "lens" in every instance you used it?
http://wsu.edu/~brians/errors/lense.html