responsibility...it's a good thing

"You are overly judgmental and there is no need point the angry finger "

I think you need to take a long look in the mirror. You’re the only person here who drags up peoples diet (lol at u thinking i eat animal products) and parenting, and also says crap like ""Now what are you going to do make this world better than mocking people for actually having good intention? Sitting here behind a computer screen isnt getting very far."

I told you what I do. … i help at a shelter. Still waiting to find out what YOU do... Do you work at a shelter? If not then go to one and get your precious hands dirty working there, then come back and tell us what a miracle it all is….

"When did I say I was purposely breeding my animal? I was not breeding her. BIG difference from me purposely letting her hump, and her escaping! If you read I said it was an accident... "

Your whole post was defended breeding them! Blah blah it was so wonderful, blah blah im glad Papoose got to experience that miracle ( a MIRACLE!!!!OOOOOHH!!!), bla bla my cat is now happier she got to experience what cats should bla bla bla bs bs bs.....You also said that you don’t regret that she had kittens! If that’s not promoting breeding animals, then what is? Geeeeze
"I do not regret that Luna snuck out, and had kittens. She was able to experience that was her right as a living creature. "

wow its her right to have babies you say? You should tell that to the animals who are being killed at the shelters today and tell the people who have to do the killing, im sure that will make their day.

If you are so concerned with animals suffering then you would be speaking up about how important it is to get them spayed, but instead you are busy telling people how great it was....

 

Technically speaking it is not the cat's fault that her kittens may grow up and potentially face being killed in a shelter. Technically speaking it's society's (and thus mankinds) fault.

It's fine that human populations are blossoming out of control and screwing up the entire planet for at least 90% of all other life forms that live upon it, but it's not fine for cats to live feral (which is what they would become where they abandoned) and prolly have nowhere near as major an impact upon the planet and the other life forms living upon it.

It's funny how no one can tell a human whether or not they have the right to have children; even murderers and rapists aren't banned from the act (if they are still capable upon release from prison that is). Yet humans feel they have the right to control the lives of every other species on this planet, simply because they can.

Well a rapist can rape and a murderer can murder, so does that give them the right, simply because they can?

Of course I am being extreme here, but the extent to which vast human populations have so fucked up the planet thus far, makes me want to laugh when it comes to decisions about whether or not another species has the right to procreate.

Or perhaps you feel that unless a creature can be guaranteed a comfortable life, it should not be created? Well no human has a guarantee of a comfortable life, does that then mean that humans should not be created by virtue of the fact that one day things might go wrong for them and they may end up on the streets with no job, no money, and poor health?

Should I not have children because one day they may suffer in life?

Mankind needs a good kick up the arse imo as regards just about everything mankind does

And I have just completely contradicted myself from a previous post about keeping cats inside. I am such a star! I am such a human being! Oh well perhaps humans should apply for licenses in order to have children as well then at least we can claim we aren't a bunch of hipocrites

 

Um, cats and dogs are mankinds 'creation'. Do you think that a wolf would have evolved into a 'chihuahua' by itself? Or a lion would evolve into a 'mexican hairless'? Humans created dog breeds, and cat breeds, so we ought to take responsibility for their lives, and not use them for status, or amusement, or kid ourselves that we are doing great things by letting them breed, or dump them at shelters when we get tired of them. And we really have no reason to keep adding to the thousands that are abandoned every day. There is no miracle or great wonder involved in allowing your pet to have a litter.


Personally, I'd advocate for people to get spayed and neutered, too, but that doesn't sound very reasonable, does it. If you want to go into the human overpopulation problem, most people shouldn't breed, as they can't even take care of themselves, and have to get help from other sources to raise a child.

 

Man, graven, you are not good at reading my posts and great at making assumptions. I know there are plenty of places to get my cat spayed that I why when I found her I was on a waiting list! Come on! Do you even take the time to read? But of course Im not worrying about my family, and friends taken back the cats.

Oh damn...My neighbor in 2 stories down and across from me did not neuter their cat. Why is that my fault that they were irresponsible. Is your fault that certain circumstances happen to you in your life because of peoples mistakes?

The reason why I said that I would not have adopted the cat at the time is because I was 5 months pregnant. Not only that at the Humane society in Phoenix it is 75 dollars to adopt, and then they would have had to contact my shitty apartment complex at the time. Then I would have to pay another 300 dollar deposit, 20 bucks a month, and only get 100 back. I did not have that much money at the time.

Im tired of this. I dont care what you may, think. Animals giving birth, and creating new life is a miracle. It was a great experience Im not going to lie. It was beautiful watching her love those kittens, and having them joyously play around the house. I NEVER SAID I WAS NOT FOR SPAYING AND NEUTERING ALL I SAID I THOUGHT THE EXPERIENCE OF MY CAT GIVING BIRTH WAS BEAUTIFUL. I REPEAT: LUNA WAS A STRAY I ADOPTED WHO WAS ON A WAITING LIST TO GET FIXED. Would it make your bitter souls feel better If I said Luna giving birth was an absolute living hell for me, and a horrible crime against all of life. We should have all died, and we will burn in hell fire....!!!

My last cat Mantra, a beautiful Siamese was adopted in December from a shelter. So dont give me the what ifs, what ifs, and what ifs. Just is there a chance that what if those people were to adopt at shelter, there is also an EQUAL chance they wouldnt have.

Clawsy, occaisonally I do more than enough to help our communities. I dont even want to get into it.

 

[font=&quot]I could argue the point of mankind creating anything beyond it’s own self righteous, self important attitude, but I can see that this topic is very close to your heart, as you work in an animal shelter, so I won’t push it any further. Lets just say I disagree with your line of reasoning, even where I may, although not entirely, agree with your point of view.

[/font][font=&quot][font=&quot]How fun would it be tho if some ultra intelligent life form suddenly descended upon Earth and decided in their infinite wisdom, that mankind should stop breeding, because too many were starving, being abandoned, dumped on the streets, in refugee camps, in hostels, etc. Doubtless we would find that unreasonable, but only because we (not the cats or the dogs) would then be the species in question.[/font]
[/font]

 

Domestic animals are certainly man-created species...here's a few links to explain it to that effect.

sorry if the first one is a bit tedious. it was written for the anthro and bioevolutionary student..or someone who knows much of the lingo.


our cats were created in ancient Egypt as pest-control for granaries and crop fields.using evolved species of smaller wild cats.





http://www.indianabigfoot.com/darwin/origin/oos1_3.htm



http://www.felinefuture.com/nutrition/bpo_ch0.php



http://www.ualberta.ca/~jzgurski/dog.htm

http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/information/Felis_silvestris.html

 

"How fun would it be tho if some ultra intelligent life form suddenly descended upon Earth and decided in their infinite wisdom, that mankind should stop breeding, because too many were starving, being abandoned, dumped on the streets, in refugee camps, in hostels, etc. Doubtless we would find that unreasonable, but only because we (not the cats or the dogs) would then be the species in question."


What does this have to do with spaying or neutering a dog or a cat, so as not to add to the thousands that are unwanted? I think the topic has been changed. Oh well. Who wants to argue the finer points of superior alien races and their possible decisions for the human race?

 

She's blabbing about how we shouldnt have any sort of dominion over cats and dogs because we would view it as unethical if it were turned on us by some higher species.

in other words...a all-inclusive definition of "only do unto others what you would have done unto you."


Apparently the chain of command and natural hierarchy does not exist in her happy land.

in her happy land all animals are wanted just like how all children are wanted.

but I doubt she'd bring in a rabbid stray pitbull or adopt a diseased deformed kid from Russia into her house to live.



If there are aliens and they come here and take control of us...then we deserve it because we failed to defend our home world.



EARTH-BOUND humans fixing EARTH-BOUND animals has no relevence to any sort of NON-EARTH-BOUND alien beings.



I wonder what aliens look like though?

 

All children across the world are wanted? I think my post clearly stated the opposite, not just for children but for all humans.

First off I was merely stating another point of view.

And yeah I guess you could say that I am of the mind that humans are just animals, and just like anything else that lives on this planet, I fail to see how we have the right to interfere with or allow/deny the procreation of any other species.

Does that mean I like to see animals/humans suffer, when things don’t go well for them? No, of course not. However who are we to decide if or when any form of life has a chance to live or not to live.

Also I dunno how you could possibly infer from my post that I live in a happy land.

As for cats and dogs or breeds thereof being man-made, certainly man had a hand to play in the domestication of such species however; he did not ‘create’ them. Unless of course man was able to clone back then, which I very much doubt, as far as I am aware the act of pro-creation still requires the fertilization between a male and female gamete.

Furthermore, where does man’s hand in ‘creation’ end, where do you draw the line? Man may have manipulated the genetic makeup of other species in the past, but what will happen when he starts to manipulate his own (and that day may not be far off if not already here)? Does that mean that because man played a part in the development of it’s own species that he then has the right to deny/allow his own kind to procreate?

I fail to see how the past domestication of animals has anything to do with whether or not man has the right to deny or allow such animals the act of procreation or the right to further interfere with their genetic makeup. Just because he screwed with nature once, doesn’t mean it’s ok for him to screw with nature twice.

What it really comes down to is, man does, because man can, man is the dominant species.

All my cats are neutered/spayed; I was merely stating another side to the argument. Sometimes I feel I did the right thing in denying them their right to procreate, but sometimes I wonder…

I doubt you would either. Your point being?

In fact I doubt you would be allowed to adopt a rabid pitbull, but really I fail to see what this has to do with my argument since nowhere in my argument did I say anything about guaranteeing any human or any animal a happy or comfortable life, rather that there were no guarantees.

[font=&quot]And that is because? Life is life, wherever it exists, be it on this planet or any other. I was merely using alien life purely because man is the dominant species on this planet, and without going outside the planet it’s self I had nothing to compare the analogy of the level of control man has over life on this planet to. You’re entire sentence was irrelevant.
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[font=&quot]And yeah this post has gone way off topic.
[/font]

 

Shakra..my post wasnt aimed at you hon.



I have been agreeing with you.LOL.

My post was directed at Cosmic.



sorry...i thought that that's who was being referred to here.

 

but I looked back and saw that it was YOU who made that post not Cosmic.


I got confuzzled because you pretty much did a 180 on your shpeil.

talking about responsibility and advocating spay/neuter and stuff on this thread and other threads and then turn around and make some goofy comment about aliens???


so..removing the parts about the children of the world?

explain yourself please.

And an apology to Cosmic who actually didnt post that silly comment even though she has posted similar but I should have known that Cosmic wouldnt have strayed to talked about alien beings controlling humans.


oh and my comment about pitbulls.

I didnt say "adopt" a rabbid pitbull.which you cannot legally do anywhere in the US. I said..bring one home into your house.meaning a rabbid stray pit.


which I hope you wouldnt.


and no...I wouldnt adopt a diseased,deformed russian orphan. because I have enough on my hands with 2 healthy,able-bodied toddlers and a precocious 7 year old step daughter.plus you need money to adopt inwhich i have none.

that comment was directed at another poster from her posts on this and other forums.

 

Well the good news is that it was a false pregnancy, and that the doggie is spayed. And my 'friends' grandmother took two of the dogs.

And there is no bad news. Unless you consider having a dog in a meth lab bad, which my 'friend' doesn't. But we're not friends anymore.