Republicans Screw the Middle Class and Unemployed!

Excuse me I had a post up with a valid point about soliders motivations for signing up.

 

No Sam you did not...

Your post in that all people in the military are there only to kill or to go to school is an insult to the people who put their lives on the line in order to give you the ability to express yourself.

 

nevermind

 

Oh my god that's asinine. You claim to know the motives behind every single soliders reasoning and actions?

I didn't say anything about all people doing anything, and if the post was still there you wouldn't be able to get away with painting it like that. Very underhanded.

What I said is that not every single person who joined the muilitary in america joined because bush tricked them into it. I said people had varying reasons, and your sweeping genralization was ingnoriant and seemed like some brainwashed sound byte.

Everything you say about america or americans is insulting and nasty, I call you out on one of your opnions presented as fact... and you wriggle it into a personial issue. it's not a a personial issue, and if the only way you can win an argument is with manipulative tactics and mod baiting.. then.. I don't know. It's just sheer idiocy.

 

Show me where I said I knew what went on in EVERY SINGLE SOLDIERS mind? Otherwise, this is another example of bullshit from you.

More bullshit Sam, what you said was that the reason people joined was to kill, or to go to school, and then you added that you almost joined out of desperation.

Actually Sam, MOST of what I say to YOU is insulting and nasty, because I just don't like you in anyway shape or form. I have quite a few friends here that are american that I have more respect for then I do for most people regardless of where they are from.

The rest, is just more bullshit from you.

 

I said that people had varied reasons, yes. Those are some of them. You implied that they joined because bush lied to them and theyt believed it. Not every american is an idiot like you imply.

Well it looks like you're the one with the personial issue, not me. My qualms are with your ideas and the way you present them. Not with you as an individual.

 

Tom, Sam... is there a purpose of putting your mutual rancor on display for all to read?

 

Follow it back to the start.

 

You know.... this whole 'issue' is totally related to the subject at hand, along with a few others being discussed in other threads.

There is a tendancy, both in our societies and online, to somehow think that you shouldn't call a spade a spade...

If someone walks up to me and smacks me in the face, I am going to do my level best to beat the shit out of them...

Although it will be MY choice to react like that, it doesn't change the fact that it is a reaction to something.

To look at the situation and say, Jack smacked Fred, so Fred beat the shit out of him, but its both their faults is a direct insult to truth and to personal responsibility...

If I walk up to someone and smack them, I do so, fully expecting to get smacked back...

Just as anyone who does it to me, should expect the same.

However, when you have people in positions of power using threats of force (online that would be banning from a site) that refuse to accept the premise that it does NOT take two to start a fight, and try to hold all parties equally responsible, it starts to put a strain on maintaining that attitude.

Why should I restrain myself from telling someone that because they said X, I think they are a moron, when they can come along and out of the blue, say "Tom, You're a Dick" and everyone ignores it?

Freedom of speech is definitely relevant around here and specifically in this thread.

Is the government right to censor what we can say, see and here?

It it anymore right for the mods of a website to do so?

Where do we draw the line? Hell... WHO draws the line?

You know the line I mean... The one that Julian is doing his best to erase...

 

Sam my husband is in the usmc, and he joined not for any of those reasons. he joined before 9/11 even happened! He joined bc he thought he coudl do some good and while doing it get paid to do some good. He was only 18 at teh time. I am sure many of us who are tad bit older remember how naive we were at that age, and his grandparents didnt help being super republican that they are. Now after almost 8 years in, he has seen what the usmc really does, adn the bs that it comes to serving his "country" . He can nto wait to get out in 2012. but really to say that most of them joined to kill or go to school is quite naive. and I like you a lot sam, but I can not really let a post likethat slide.

 

I didn't say most. I said a portion. The post is gone now so I can't properly defend myself. It's been taken way out of context by this point. I said that just to add some depth to the sweeping generalizations out there.

And you read some of the stories about war prisoner tourture, all the rape and civilian killings that soliders are responsible for and tell me it's naive.

Is it so hard to believe that sociopathic and sadistic personalities can and are drawn to active military service? Is it so hard to believe that some kids in the ghetto went to Iraq when a military recruiter went to their school and told them the military would give them a free education and a 40,000 dollar infantry bonus?

Who is naive?

And I like you to, and have nothing but respect for your veiwpoints. I just have some different ones I'd like to express.

 

Deviating from Sam's and Tom's scintillating sidebar I must confess some difficulty with the premise that the Democraps aren't above screwing the unemployed and middle class for their own purposes as well. Everything I see taking place furnishes something more to filter subsequent words and actions that just cement my jaded attitude and strengthening sense that the government is by and large a criminal organization- something that will not be mitigated by replacing one major party with the other. It amounts to choosing how we want to be economically violated.

Yet they insist on selling their agendas as being in our interest and each campaign year the messages reflect two things:

1- that people are incapable of filtering new promises through past behavior and lies. Unfortunately it seems that most are incapable- or unwilling

2- that they believe we are morons. Unfortunately we prove them right again and again by buying into insultingly transparent and empty promise after promise.

Meanwhile the revolution has been preempted by all new episodes of American Idol.

 

How long has the war been going on, since early 2003? That would be almost 8 years wouldn’t it?.

The National Guard enlistment terms are for 3, 6 or 8 years and before you sign up, you know that you're obligated to serve at state and/or federal levels, including going to war.

If they didn’t want to take the chance to be called up to serve in a war, then they should have joined the Red Cross or the state guard.

To say these folks serving and joining the national guard during wartime were somehow duped into a back door draft is ludicrous. Unless you believe they’re idiots, which they are not.

As far as Bush lying, tell me of any president who hasn’t, or prime minister, king, czar or what ever. Man, grow up will yah, quit being such a Pollyanna.

You folks defending Assange crack me up. You put this guy on a pedestal for what?

He duped some dumbass private into giving him stolen government documents, which may kill some American’s and damage American interests. Not everything this government or any government does needs or must be broadcasted to the whole world.

The end result of his actions may get this Manning character life in a military prison or an execution. (Be real proud of that)

If Obama had any gonads, he’d press for espionage charges against Assange. Regardless of what was contained in those documents, they were stolen government property, period.

 

So you are against free speech, posting on a site that is all about it?

How about the newspapers and television channels that have also shared confidential information with the public, should they also be charged for espionage?

 

I never said I was against free speech, if I did prove it.

People of your ilk, like to toss stones at others with different views, your all for diversity, as long as everyone thinks and acts like you.

I suppose I’m privileged to have my free speech, as long as I bleat, like the rest of you sheep.

Newspapers and television stations do not threaten to rain down an Armageddon of damaging secret documents to harm the country, or it’s industries, if they are called to task for their actions, but cowardly thugs do.

I did say Assange was guilty of receiving stolen government property and that he was guilty of taking advantage of a dumbass private.

 

When you argue against Wikileaks and Assange, you are arguing against free speech...

The very thing that allows you to come here and speak your mind.

Newspapers and televisions stations have been sharing those leaked documents that Assange gave to them, just as Assange was sharing what he was given.

Beyond that though, the media, print as in newspapers, radio and television have been sharing leaked info since their inception.

In fact, some of the most famous ones are leaked documents from the US government, and the scandal that was made public by just such actions.

As for them not threatening to call down amegeddon, that is because they are protected under your laws, just as Assange should be.

Your idea that those like me, like to toss stones at those who disagree....

I find it interesting that the only one out of the two of us who have thrown any stones has been you.

So, yeah, I guess I will agree with you on that part... people of your ilk will tend to do that...

 

tough stuff, bud. There's no reason for some to have to carry others. They need to get busy supporting themselves. It's RIDICULOUSLY easy to do in the US. For $100 per year, you can file a "mining claim" on 20 acres of BLM (bureau of land management) land, and for that year, have all the rights of an owner, without paying any taxes, or needing insurance for what happens to someone on your claim. If it won't grow a garden, pay to have black dirt hauled in. Put in some rabbit hutches and a chicken pen. Naturally, it needs to front on a water source. Put out some gill nets and trotlines, and you are good to go. Sprouts will be feeding you within a week, you know. Americans have become inept, lazy and cowardly.

 

It took him EIGHT years to figure out what the military is all about? Sheesh. That should be obvious in less than an hour of study and asking questions.

 

What can we do about it.Politicians period(democrat or republicans)don't care about us.

 

we can destroy the economy, and starve them.