Republicans are ruining American education

i dunno, you quoted me and posted a bunch of graphs that implied the opposite of what i was saying, with no explanation. i really wasn't sure exactly what you were getting at so i just answered the best i could based on what was posted. *shrugs*

 

Plumbing is a profession yet you didn't include them. My complaint isn't that you compared teachers to professions. My problem is you compared teachers to professions that are largely recognized as high end and requires years of degrees and internships to obtain and the profesion itself is very demanding.

 

That's because the liberals think they are lower class humans that only understand one thing, plumbing. They don't have a clue of the big picture like them edumicated ones do

 

Yeah, I think the general thinking was that when teachers invest years in degrees and internships to enter a profession, they should be treated as professionals and make more than plumbers. But as a matter of fact, some plumbers make more. In fact I know a plumber who used to be a college professor--a recognized authority in his field. And he gave it up for a more lucrative occupation. Keep in mind, the real issue is the quality of education in this country. You get what you pay for.

 

A clerk at a liquor store makes more than a teacher. Considering the fact that the clerk has no student debt to pay off, it's all a matter of how you define smarter.

 

Smart is investing in our education system so we do not become a nation of imbeciles (oops is it too late)

I dont know why anyone would be opposed to that. Even if you dont have kids, todays kids will be the ones running the world when we're all too old and feeble to do it. It is in the best interest of all of us to make sure we are creating a well educated populace

 

We did a lot better when we taught our kids to have a good work ethic as a mechanic, plumber, electrician etc., than we have convincing them that being a teacher or lawyer was a better path for them.

We de-emphasized labor jobs, trade jobs, skilled trades, in favor of cerebral professions. Man are we paying the price now. Everyone sits around convincing each other who's smarter and we not enough doing the actual things that need to be done to actually get us going again.

Smart is placing education emphasis on what we need to have here. The last thing we need is more people graduating with the idea that they are now smarter than a plumber or electrician or etc. and therefore don't need to do any work they feel better than needing.

Cars are complex. To be a good mechanic today is way harder than it used to be. If I have a degree in basket weaving, that mechanic is far smarter than me in their choices.

 

It was the first thing that came my mind on short notice. If by profession, something that requires specific training, certification, and schooling, then plumbing would be cosidered as such but I'd go with trade.

Well yes if the profession being compared to is relatively the same. A brain surgeon and a teacher are not the same. Plain and simple. The expertise and stress of the two jobs are on two different levels. A teacher can get away with an error or two that isn't detrimental. However if a doctor makes an error, he risks someone else's life and/or well being. So I'm fine if you want to prove your point by comparing a teacher's salary to another profession, just keep it in perspective.

No. We should compare professions that are at the same level as teacher as far as requirements and how demanding the job is. BTW, I can name a profession that pays less. I just did it in fact. First responders get paid on average less than teachers. In fact in many cases, you're volunteering to do the same job as a full time responder. I can personally attest to that as I was an auxiliary member for my local sheriff's office. Except for the badge, I wore the same uniform as a full time deputy and I had similar duties. My city department has a part time unit who has the exact same powers and duties as a full time officer yet they also volunteer. All this to say that while I believe that first responders should be paid more as they risk their lives to save others, I will not say that they should be on the same level as an engineer or doctor.

Again, no. I'm saying that being a teacher isn't as demanding as being a doctor.

You're right. It was a bad example. However the premise of the argument still stands. Comparing a teacher to a doctor is no comparison at all.

 

My brother was a healthcare professional. He was a radiogy technician.

My g/f is a medical professional. She is a general practice MD.

One is not like the other.

Just don't tell my brother. He thinks they are.

 

One of the things a good education should do is teach the kids how to think straight--to distinguish relevant from irrelevant arguments. You show a lack of that skill.

 

Nor did I said as much. I said the expertise and job stress of both professions are on separate levels. The requirements and stress is more with doctors than teachers.

Which brings up another point. Why not compare teachers of medicine to doctors for how much each is paid? By your own admission, teachers come in many levels and fields of study. A teacher of medicine has more expertise than a kindergarten teacher. Your chart lumps all teachers into one catagory.

So compare the teachers with the highest levels to professions like doctors amd engineers. That way they are at least relatable.

Nearly all of that can be atributed to the stress of being a police officer.

 

I care. I have school age kids!

 

As I said, my problem isn't with you comparing teachers to different professions that are of similar likeness. My problem is you comparing teachers to doctors. That'll be like me comparing a police officer to a doctor. While I have high regards for our first responders and for a short while I was one of them and currently seeking employmemt as a full time officer, It would be silly of me to place a police officer on the same level as a doctor.

The lowest level of doctor still has far more requirements than your average teacher or even professor.

No. I'm saying that the requirements to become a doctor is different and more difficult than becoming a teacher.

I don't feel that. By all means, pay teachers at least the amount it takes to have a decent living. What I object to is paying teachers the same amount as doctors.

That's not what I said other than not paying teachers on the same level as doctors.

 

As I said earlier, the plumbing trade was a bad example that I thought of in short notice. I will say that teachers aren't on the same level as doctors.

 

Plumbing is a skill that be can taught on site. It's not the same thing as a real college education that teachers need. It has a place in society but I don't trust a plumber to know anything but pipes.