Republicans are ruining American education

Discussion in 'Politics' started by unfocusedanakin, Jun 12, 2018.

  1. ~Zen~

    ~Zen~ California Tripper Administrator

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    Appointing Betsy DeVos as Education secretary was the first blow against the USA's educational system. Not only is her brother Eric Prince (remember Blackwater???), she is a Republican known for her support for school choice, school voucher programs, and charter schools. In other words she doesn't support the idea of a good public education for all.
     
  2. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Only the first blow under Trump.
     
  3. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

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    I think school choice and vouchers are a good idea

    Public schooling has been a broken system for years.
     
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  4. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Why do you think choice and vouchers are good?
     
  5. ~Zen~

    ~Zen~ California Tripper Administrator

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    I think it would be better to fix the broken system and upgrade it into the 21st century, rather than diverting resources for the privileged few and the religious folks who think it is best to teach their children bible passages. That always irritates me, religious education belongs in church. This IS America, where the separation of church and state was written into the constitution.
     
  6. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    The idea is that if your child is enrolled in a low performing school, you can send them to another school using the money their home school should have received for that child.
    But in practice it doesn't work very well.

    School choice is a broad subject as there are many types of school choice. For example, right now I can choose to send my child to their home school district or the consolidated county vocational school to which a number of districts subscribe.
     
  7. I'minmyunderwear

    I'minmyunderwear Newbie

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    none of those are really bad numbers. no, teachers aren't out there getting rich. but everyone likes to run around saying how teachers are one of the lowest paid professions; well they're doing better than a majority of people i know.
     
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  8. Maccabee

    Maccabee Luke 22:35-38

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    Just for comparison, a lot of police department around my area are paying at best $38,000 when ypu first start off.
     
  9. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    [​IMG]
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  10. 6-eyed shaman

    6-eyed shaman Sock-eye salmon

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    Because it forces public schools to compete in a market for more funding, and a higher student body count. Raising the quality of education and schooling

    I’ve attended both public, and religion-affiliated private schools. The quality of education at the private schools win hands down. The phobia of the possibility that the students from private schools are going to graduate into becoming religious zealots, is just as crazy as the notion that college is guaranteed to turn every graduate into a Democrat .

    Oh yeah, and the catholic high school I went to taught evolution too.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2018
  11. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    I understand the concept but can you tell me how it works?

    Are public and private schools competing on an even playing field?
    Do you have statistics to back up your claim of educational quality being raised?
    If the educational quality is in fact being raised do you have data as to the reasons for the raise in the public schools or why the private schools are better, if they are?

    Do you know what Segregation academies were and how they relate to school choice and vouchers?

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. unfocusedanakin

    unfocusedanakin The Archaic Revival Lifetime Supporter

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    I doubt the evolution was taught to scientific standards. But maybe I am wrong there are a few progressive schools that realize the bible and science are two different concepts that don't have to exclude each other.

    One of my main points is that the free market does not solve everything. You see that now, if private school truly worked it would be affordable and effective. Many of neither. They are for well off people's children to learn a half truth. Most of them are religious based. You go because you don't want the kid learning about sex education or evolution. Or you are willing to pay the premium because you are rich enough to escape the poor funding of public schools. So unless you come from money you have no chance. Much like most things in our economy. It's not how hard you work but how much money your family has that is the #1 factor in success. "Small loans of a million dollars" ring a bell?

    Why does the inner city not have affordable private schools? The market is there and the current schools do not work. Yet no businessman uses the free market to make it affordable. It's because there is no money in the poor so why invest in them?
     
  13. I'minmyunderwear

    I'minmyunderwear Newbie

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    the first two graphs do prove that there are some jobs that pay more than teaching. which was never disputed by anyone, ever in the history of the world. and for the most part, i don't have a problem with anything i see there. yes, teaching is an important and demanding job. but all those healthcare jobs are just as important, and generally even more demanding. i'm also perfectly fine paying good money to the people who are making sure the bridges i'm driving over don't collapse, or the elevator i'm on doesn't drop me 50 stories. lawyers are probably overpaid, but the ones making a lot of money also work crazy amounts of hours to earn it. and i since it doesn't specify that those are median salaries, i'm guessing they took the mean average which will probably skew the lawyer salary upward based on a few of those big case guys that make millions. yes, finance people make too much money compared to the rest of us, but that's really not the point.

    also, all i said was that teachers are doing better than a majority of people i know. well, i don't know that many elevator installers or civil engineers. most of those jobs aren't that common. the real people i know mostly don't make anywhere near any of those numbers.

    the last graph is also likely misleading. again, it doesn't specify what exactly it is measuring, so i have to assume it's using a mean average, which means that the few people who are being ridiculously overpaid are lumped in with the non-teachers, skewing their average upward.
     
  14. The Imaginary Being

    The Imaginary Being PAIN IN ASS Lifetime Supporter

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    Never said it was
     
  15. The Imaginary Being

    The Imaginary Being PAIN IN ASS Lifetime Supporter

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    Team work
    I suppose is the end state
     
  16. Maccabee

    Maccabee Luke 22:35-38

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    You're comparing teachers to doctors and engineers. At the same time police officers, who risk their lives everyday and every 60 hours an officer is killed on duty, only get paid around $43,000

    Police Officer Salary

    Where's the outrage for their pay to be higher?
     
  17. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    I've never argued that their aren't many important jobs or professions.
    Yes averages work that way. A high salary or a low salary are calculated the same. But using a median average can also skew the results.

    The point was that teaching wasn't one of the lowest paid professions, not jobs. Nothing was said about what type of measurement was used to arrive at that conclusion.
    I'm not deputing that some teachers may be paid better than the people you know. So what?
     
  18. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Yes I compared teachers to doctors and engineers, i.e. other professions.
    I've heard lots of outrage about police salaries.
     
  19. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    But regardless, does anyone have anything to say about how to improve public education?
     
  20. Meliai

    Meliai Members

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    After I graduated high school and started meeting people from all over the place and comparing notes, I realized that my red state curriculum either taught certain subjects/material later than other states or didnt teach them at all

    So i'm personally in favor of a federally mandated curriculum with more unity across the board. It would make it easier for students who have to move from state to state as well.

    By that same token I dont really like the practice of how schools are currently funded by district with poorer districts getting the short end of the stick. I would like to see funding more evenly distributed

    Of course I know these are basically pipe dreams because states rights and blah blah blah but I do think this would level the playing field a great deal
     
    tumbling.dice likes this.

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