Republicans are ruining American education

Discussion in 'Politics' started by unfocusedanakin, Jun 12, 2018.

  1. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

    Oh, I agree we shouldn't eliminate the positive, but we don't need to crow about it and jam it down the rest of the world's throat.

    Part of the function of the school system is promote nationalism, to a degree. That's how we become welded together as a nation, a melting pot as they used to say. But to overreach is the danger. Many seem to think that if we admit that we made mistakes, it weakens us. I would content that admitting mistakes strengthens us, if we act to avoid repeating those mistakes.
  2. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter

    Science without a sense of humor is incomplete, explaining why they are killing us faster with each new invention, and screaming louder the more evidence they collect that, quantum mechanics make no damned sense.
  3. TrudginAcrossTheTundra

    TrudginAcrossTheTundra Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    1) agreed
    2) gore and sensationalism needn't be added to the facts, but the facts themselves should be presented and are somewhat gorey and sensationalist on their own merit.
    3) we needn't blame Muslims at all, but recognize that it's islamist ideology which motivates them.
    4) what is US exceptionalism? The GDP? The military capability? The ingenuousness of the top inventors? The reliable power grid? Internet connectivity? The supposed freedom? Developing a vaccine in way less time than the experts thought possible? The fact that any poor kid can become wealthy if they apply themselves? What exactly are we referring to?

    A lot of things seem short on excellence today starting with education (obviously) and the health care system, the legal system, the tax system, the government spending, invasion of privacy, acceptance of extremist elements, funding damaging practices, and parenting (upbringing of children).

    As to "focus on what is wrong with the U.S. so that it can be fixed instead of promoting nationalism. ...avoid saying we are the best as we do have faults." The obvious problem here is that we can't agree on "what's wrong", much less how it can be "fixed". That's clearly demonstrated by procedural changes in the name of improving some aspect of life/society swiftly met with criticism and opposition.
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  4. TrudginAcrossTheTundra

    TrudginAcrossTheTundra Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    Return and review for yourself. I'm tired of spoon-feeding you.
  5. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

    1. Agreed.
    2. Agreed.
    3. Disagreed to the point that you could say the same thing about Christian extremists so i don't know why you single out eh Muslims.
    4. US exceptionalism. The term originated with American communists arguing over the supposed transition from capitalism to socialism the 1920s.
    Why can't we agree on what is wrong? Surely we can agree on some things.
  6. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

    You don't have to be condescending.
    There are 17 pages in this thread, numerous videos, and it goes back to 2018. I'm not taking the time to review all that in search of a phrase you commented on.

    All I asked for was a citation, if you are unable to provide one just tell me. If you can't don't talk about having to spoon feed me as if I'm some baby.

  7. TrudginAcrossTheTundra

    TrudginAcrossTheTundra Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    3) re-read
    5) opinion.
    For example, some people want to avoid the responsibility that accompanies the carelessness of producing an unwanted pregnancy with no concern for others due to the effect it has on society as a whole, while others look at the long term effects on society of adopting such a cavalier view of the sanctity of human life and the psychological effects that killing one's unborn child has on the parents over their lifetimes, particularly that of the mother.

    Two sides to many concerns. That's but one example of many in which ne'er the two shall meet.

    But yes, we sure can agree on many things. Much more than on how much we disagree on, but the focus seems to always be on the disagreements.
  8. TrudginAcrossTheTundra

    TrudginAcrossTheTundra Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    All you have to do is read the quoted post I was responding to. It's irrelevant the length and age of the thread.
  9. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

    Still don't follow you, I checked, thank you for pointing it out to me. You said, "Ignoring the enemy and underlying motivations while focusing on "America's faults" -- I would have thought that obvious to anyone realizing the context." Who are you saying is ignoring the enemy? I can't find anyone, other than you saying anything about ignoring the enemy. Are you using your comments to prove or illustrate your comments?
  10. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

    I reread point # 3. "we needn't blame Muslims at all, but recognize that it's islamist ideology which motivates them." So we could say the same thing about Christian extremists. That was my point.
    In your example you assume that all unwanted pregnancies are due to irresponsibility, and that abortions must have a negative effect on society and the people involved. In addition you assume that all abortions involve the "killing of an unborn child". That is a largely weighted presentation of what an abortion is, what a child is, what an embryo is, etc.
    But I take your point.
  11. TrudginAcrossTheTundra

    TrudginAcrossTheTundra Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    Fine, I'll take you back:
    "Teachers Should 'Avoid Placing Blame' for 9/11, and 'Focus on America's Faults'"
  12. TrudginAcrossTheTundra

    TrudginAcrossTheTundra Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    We were talking about the 9/11 attacks. What role did Christian extremists play?

    I never assume anything, so I suggest you never assume that I'm assuming. Doing so makes you appear disingenuous and I doubt that's what you're shooting for.
  13. Tishomingo

    Tishomingo Senior Member

    I think teachers have an obligation to cover real and important events in our history, and 9/11, like Pearl Harbor, was certainly real and important. Attributing it to "Islamist ideology", is generally accurate but overly general, and would require careful explanation by the teacher. Not all Islam, but extreme Islamic fundamentalists, were responsible, specifically wahabism, bin Laden and Al-Qaeda. U.S, Christian counterparts would probably be the the Order, the Christian Identity Movement, the Dominionists, the Army of God and the rest of the groups that hang out at Elohim City here in Oklahoma. Fifteen of the attackers were Saudis, two were from the UAE, one each from Egypt and Lebanon--all blaming the United States for supporting the governments of their own countries. According to the Council on Foreign Relations:“In particular, al Qaeda opposed the continued presence of American military forces in Saudi Arabia (and elsewhere on the Saudi Arabian peninsula) following the Gulf War,” al-Qaeda (a.k.a. al-Qaida, al-Qa’ida) It would probably take advanced high school students to handle all that.
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2021
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  14. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

    So let me understand, you are referring to the title of the video, "Florida Students: Teachers Should ‘Avoid Placing Blame’ for 9/11, and ‘Focus on America’s Faults’"? Now I've watched that video numerous times, too many times, and I can't find any student in that video who utters those remarks. Please cite the time stamp on the video where these remarks are made in that order without omitting any thing in between or being taken out of context.

    Regardless, you consider an opinion that teachers should avoid placing Blame for 9/11 and Focus on America’s faults to be an act of treason? Could you please relate your understanding of treason?
    I'll cite the U.S Code of Law on the subject and, if you would, please explain how it applies to the above alleged opinion.

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  15. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

    Your third point was,
    First of all I don't quite understand the statement. We shouldn't blame Muslims, but Islamist (i.e. Muslim) ideology is what motivates them. So no Muslim should be blamed but if they follow Islamist ideology then the ideology should be blamed but the person committing the act is entirely blameless?
    Again regardless, I was merely pointing out that we could say the same thing about Christians, Christian extremists, and Christian ideology. And Buddhists, Buddhist extremists, and Buddhist ideology, Jews, Jewish extremists, and Jewish ideology, and any other religion, group, or cult you wish to name. So I don't see why you even made that statement.
    You assume nothing? You don't assume spring follows winter, summer follows spring, fall follows summer, and winter follows fall; and make plans accordingly?
  16. Tishomingo

    Tishomingo Senior Member

    We could go on and on with this. The discussion lately has centered on the video in post #288. The post started out: "This is what is being taught to our children, why ?" But it's immediately obvious that this is not what is being taught to our students., but rather what a group of college students think should be taught to them. Someone went to a lot of trouble, time and expense to put this together. Why? It's no mystery. It's propaganda, pushing a favorite right wing talking point that colleges and universities are teaching students to hate America and overlook the faults of our adversaries. Since it's not a scientific sample of any population, it doesn't have much value even in understanding student opinion.And were the responses edited to include the ones best suited to get the message across? Much ado about nothing. What we seem to be arguing about now is whether or not the views expressed by some of these students, one in particular, about what teachers should be teaching about 9/11 are appropriate.Of course, the more important question is what teachers should be teaching about 9/11 to college students?

    I agree with Meagain that using the term "treason" for these expressions of opinion is a bit over-the-top. And I think leaving out gruesome details is also appropriate. And not blaming all Muslims. And no need to get into American exceptionalism. But when 9/11 rolls around every year, I think it's important for college-level history and political science classes to make some mention of it, explain what happened, and give some idea why it happened. To me, it's similar to the Holocaust. We have a museum dedicated to the idea that we should "never forget" that event. Terrorism is still a threat to this country, and everybody should be alert to the danger. Unfortunately, coverage of domestic terrorism has taken a back seat to foreign (Islamist) terrorism, so maybe we should include something about that in the light of events in just the past couple of years. Confronting the Rise of Domestic Terrorism in the Homeland — FBI I don't see a need for an "equal time" rule for bad things the U.S. has done, although a balanced picture wouldn't sweep these under the rug.

    My own take is that 9/11 was an act of terrorist aggression against the U.S. perpetrated by Salafi/Wahabi extremists who thought they were justified by their twisted version of Islam, just as every group of terrorist crazies thinks it is justified. Salafis and Wahhabis are puritanical Muslim sects taking a literalist approach to the Qur'an and hadith and subscribing to the ultraconservative Hanbali school of Sharia.. Bin Laden was guided by Qutbism, the ideology of Sayyid Qutb, the Egyptian Salafi ideologist of "offensive jihad". Qutb became radicalized after a visit to the United States, where he encountered such horrific spectacles as boys and girls dancing at a Methodist social. (If it had been a Baptist social, history might have been different!) He argued that any society that is not governed according to the Shari’a is a jahili (barbaric) society. Although the Qur'an is pretty clear that war must be defensive and not directed against civilian non-combatants, Bin Laden argued that the assault on Islam by western values and governmental policies was tantamount to aggression, and that all citizens in western countries were giving at least passive consent. Bin Laden amplified these ideas as a basis for his terrorist attacks.
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021
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  17. erofant

    erofant Members

    I'll touch on something related to "the teaching of factual reality."

    Today in the U.S. there are some right-wing groups that are denying / questioning whether the holocaust was a real thing that actually happened. Who are those groups shittin' ??? This is 100% PURE BS PROPAGANDA. We had U.S. soldiers there in Germany taking pictures and film of what they encountered when the Nazi's surrendered. There is plenty of video proof of the FACTS. I had a teacher years ago who had the concentration camp numbers tattooed on her arm - she was Polish. But these right-wing, nut-job extremists are pushing this false propaganda (claiming the holocaust never happened) because many of them are anti-Semitic, white supremacist, Jew-haters.

    And we have today groups that want to hide and cover up the slavery that happened here in the U.S. and the horrible abuses of black people who were beaten, hung, and shot. Again ..... white supremacists are behind this attempted cover-up. History CANNOT be re-written to suit some political agenda by right-wing nut-jobs. There are some hard-line REPUBLICAN GROUPS that have publicly stated that they want a race war here in the U.S. Putin and Xi Jinping must be salivating at the thought of a U.S. civil war ......... they could waltz right in and conquer us while we kill each other like childish assholes ........... and WE'D ALL BECOME SLAVES or PRISONERS to the invaders.

    Now ......... we have some again ....... right-wing nut-jobs claiming that 9-11 never happened. They claim what we all saw was done with computer-generated graphics ............ and the twin towers are still standing. Those SATAN-SPAWN are claiming that those two towers never actually fell. They say it was all faked.

    And we have THE BIG LIE. Which is exactly what it is. Despite EVERY court challenge being laughed out of those courtrooms after many millions of dollars being wasted, and NO PROOF WHATSOEVER of voter fraud - many Americans still believe THE BIG LIE ......... that T**** won by a landslide. They think the election was "stolen" from T****. Even T****'s hand-picked judges said he was full of SHIT .... so now the 76 year-old baby hates those judges for adhering to the law. But even today, Oct. 4th, 2021 - there are many who still believe T**** will be "re-instated" as president ..........

    This is how S-T-U-P-I-D this country has become. This is how G-U-L-L-I-B-L-E some of our citizens are ..........

    THAT REPUBLICAN side bitches about "cancel-culture" ........ but itself takes part in cancelling reality, facts, and history.

    "If the country falls - it will be from the enemy within ....... "
    MeAgain likes this.
  18. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

    Hitler invented the term, "The Big Lie."

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