Religous Veiws

There are levels of enlightenment?

Open eyes, closed eyes, no eyes, yes. Most simply choose this plane of existence.

...That is if you believe in different planes of existences.

 

enlightenment ultimately means super duper astral travel?

to what, "different planes of existence"? what does that even mean? i have never seen a different plane of existence, nor do I know anybody who has ever been to one, and everybody who has ever spoken about them has not, either. And when they swear they have, personally, they usually end up describing something to me which is no different than a dream, hallucination, or otherwise flight of fancy of a very earth-bound, here-and-now imagination, probably stuck on "western" mode thinking the truth is OUT THERE SOMEWHERE and we must WORK REALLY HARD to be able to POSSIBLY MAYBE ONE DAY arrive at it, if were REALLY REALLY GOOD.

you show me different planes of existence and i'll introduce you to my friend the tooth fairy.

 

So it doesn't have anything to do with dieting?
Man, I gotta rethink my whole view of reality

 

I wouldn't say there are distinct levels, I would say there are different things people consider enlightenment. Some people consider realizing they are a spirit not the body, other consider full oneness with the source. I usually refer to it as one who has realized the now, or awareness without mind.

Im talking about the ability to when you close your eyes, have an out of body experience, project yourself to a different dimension.

Physical Plane, Astral Plane, Causal Plane, Spiritaul Plane, these are different frequencys of reality. There are many other universes, and there are many different dimensions, higher frequency planes, that work with a less limited, more complicated physics.

This isn't the only universe there is, there are millions of other universes, all vibrating on different frequencies, each taking there own special amount of space (dimension), and they all have there own physics, some similar to us, and some really different.

All of these realitys are an interconnected system of consciousness. So one can explore these realitys if they learn to navigate their consciousness. By closing your eyes and learning to properly meditate, to the point where you become a point of awareness, you can then guide your consciousness anywhere.

You are even able to move through time as if it were space. All possibilities exist simultaneously, you can travel to the past, or you can travel to the a possible future as a probability vector. Which means you can experience different versions of yourself from reality's you made different choices and learn from the experience.

There is scientific documentation of these experiences to other worlds. Bob Monroe, one of the most renown consciousness travelers, set up Monroe's Laboratory, which is dedicated to the science of consciousness. Bob Monroe and other travelers such as Thomas Campbell have put more then 40 years of research into this subject.

Thomas Campbell wrote a book called, "My Big Toe", which is one like a scientific model of enlightenment. His description of the nature or reality, both subjective, and objective are astounding clear and understandable.

There are hundreds of other documentation written. "Easy Journeys to Other Worlds" is a book by Prabhupada on how to travel to other worlds like our own. Plus many accounts of spiritual masters traveling to different beautiful realms of existence.

I have met many people at Satsang, who can do this Astral Traveling regularly. Good Ol' Stalk was able to lucid dream, and as he said "rip my soul out with my third eye, and dance the cosmic dance to travel through the universe.

In my own experience, I have experienced cross dimensions connected to this one on DMT. On Salvia I have also experienced different layers to this dimension, and other strange realities. On Acid I have experienced hyper dimensional realms behind closed eyes. On mushrooms spiritual realms of light and bliss. Fractal cathedrals and hyperdimensional super objects.

I am trying to learn how to do it sober, to control astral travel so that I can do it whenever I please. I have gotten to certain states where it has been possible, a certain degree of self discipline is needed though. Also that fact that I am in the transition stage between teen and adult, when I reach 21 the mechanism of leaving the body should work stronger.

It should be your freedom to explore all of the now. Every part of reality, from this earth plane,to the 5 dimensional Zibanula county. This is full enlightment, God freedom.

 

..

 

uhhh, Ok, bartender I think this guys had enough

Seriously though, your talking about this shit as though there were empirical evidence to prove thier existance. Quite simply there isn't.
These other dimensions and planes of existance may exist or they may just be the result of meditation/drugs/psychosis induced altered states and take place entirely in the persons mind and have no basis in reality, any reality.
I am very open minded and don't rule out the possibillity of such things, but your talking as if it were like going to Disneyworld for vacation.

I have experienced some pretty funky shit in my life, but I'm still not sure if they were real "outside of me" experiences or if they occurred in the realm of my own mind.
If you want to believe these things exist and want to pursue them, fine, but don't try to tell others that they actually exist without any supporting empirical evidence. Thats just inviting the responses you have received.

Oh and whats age got to do with it. Is it like being able to order drinks in a bar or something.

 

There is no alternate to reality, but we can discover we were not where we thought we were.

 

Yet another vague one liner from thedope thats doesn't really say a thing

 

All of the things listed here require the mind to achieve. So you need a mind to achieve a state of awareness without mind?
How is it that a human with a mind can 'become enlightened' by being aware without mind? The mind will still be there regardless. He didn't gain or lose anything, but he is then enlightened? or was he enlightened all along, but simply realized it? Sorry, lots of questions.

I think that even those without a mind are enlightened. Such as a plant, or a single cell.

 

pb, what he means is that even though we may not travel to other dimensions, oir own will be transformed as we blossom into that oceanic mental state called many things by many people

 

:cheers2:

while i dont understand why you believe your things literally, i must say they are pretty cool sounding when articulated this well.

 

Then why didn't he say that?
Because like so many of the so called gurus around these days it is easier to say vague crap like thedope does that can be interpreted in numerous ways by numerous people rather than actually articulating what they intend and actually communicate something.
Maybe because when a person say things that are so vague there is less likelihood of someone disagreeing with them or showing that the are mistaken or full of crap.

You know it's kind of like reading your horoscope in the newspaper.

You should understand that considering you are one of the few here that is able to put things into words that really convey your meaning and intentions.

I stand by my original assessment.

 

i beg to differ....What about the veiw of reality from a goats point of veiw?or a dolphin?or a shark?or a sloth?or microscopic bug?, they have an alternate reality to our own because nobody has yet to fathom out what they really think, or what they have going on in their own minds.

 

Also any veiws on what happens during death?...I always thought it would be a like a huge inner light show with colors and all types of spiritual stuff

 

Well what I was trying to explain is there is evidence on top of evidence of this stuff, its like no one wants to believe it though.

Bob Monroe and Thomas Campbell did experiments where they would be in sound proof rooms, they learned how to Astral Travel and stay conscious in physical reality at the same time. They both met up in the Astral World and journey together, then explained each others journey in there own separate microphones, and recorded on tapes.

When they listened to the tapes they found out they were describing the same situation, that both of them had actually been talking to each other in another realm of existence. Many different experiences like this were recorded and documented. 40 years worth of astral travel recorded down somewhere.

Also the thing with the age is because its a transition period for the mind. I'm not ripe enough to be drinking whiskey with aliens.

Mind is blocking you from awareness. When you turn all your thoughts off, you will enlightened. You are free flowing consciousness, you don't need a mind to be, you only need a mind to think. When you turn of the thoughts of mind, when you become just an awareness in the now, you are enlightened. Of course the mind will still be there, but you can be the master of it, control it and not let it control you.

This reality will blossom, but there are other reality's too. I thought this was a basic concept most people had learned from tripping. That there are millions of realitys, literally millions of universes that are just as big, or bigger than ours. Universe after universe after universe, trillions and trillions of dimensions.

I am explaining there are related literal things there. Realms of existence with more dimensions then 3. I have experienced these extra dimensions on DMT. I thought everyone here pretty much has.

How could there be just this one universe? That is ignorant. How can there be just this boring 3D space? There is so much more, we are on level 1 still.

There is much more to be percieved. You think you are just fine be on this
Earth plane, but really no one has even opened the front door to there house. We are all sitting in house, afraid to go outside. We say this is all there is, when really it is just your small pitiful room, all one must do is open the door.

Last one to explore another realm is a rotten egg!

 

:smilielol5:...

 

You do understand that if that is the extent of their methodology then it does NOT constitute a sound scientific experiment. Could just be two guys collaborating with like ideas and goals arriving at the same experiences and conclusions due to prior agreement on what was to be achieved through the experimentation. This can happen consciously with forethought and intentional fraud or unconsciously due to prior conversations about said experiment and like-mindedness and the desire to achieve certain goals shared between the two individuals.
That happens in scientific experiments more often then you may think.

Remember to stand an experiment has to be reproducible by others and have the same or similar results as the original. If it can't then it doesn't hold up and becomes opinion or conjecture.

I have not really read too much about these two or The Monroe Institute,
But I will check it out for sure.
As I said I am totally open minded about a lot of things, but I due retain a bit of skepticism, especially when talking about things or events that are for the most part subjective and don't lend themselves very easily to rigorous scientific study. Even "proven" scientific "fact" is always tentative and subject to change and revision.
That doesn't mean that I don't believe in the possibilities.

May I suggest you also look up Charles T. Tart. He was one of the first to apply scientific methodology and modern research techniques in the area of consciousness. I'm sure some of The Monroe Institutes work is built upon his.
:cheers2:

 

My beliefs were nearly the same as yours(minus the jesus; he and i decided it was best if we both saw other people a long time ago) up until about 3 months ago when i came upon nicherin buddhism and the soka gakkai organization. once i started to learn about and practice buddhism, it was like all the pieces of the puzzle started to rearrange themselves and after a few weeks, it was like my whole life just 'clicked' into place. practicing buddhism and chanting has changed my whole perspective on the world and life and what it means to be human. and for me, it's the only thing that has been able to explain life's mysteries in an intelligent, believeable way. it's incredible. but--that's just my belief system and my own path.

i think it's great and perfectly acceptable to pick and choose and to support and believe in an "ala carte" type of spirituality/religion. it worked for me for a long time, and if it works for you: keep doing what makes you happy, because that's all that really matters.

 

In Thomas Campbell's book he explains how all of this was done with much skepticism. All of these experiments were done scientifically in very controlled settings with hundreds of participants. It seemed impossible at first, but as more and more data came in, it seemed that these experiences were undoubtedly true.

He describes the shock he recieves from this realization, and how it literally changed his perception of reality. A running theme in his book is "open minded skepticism" and "tasting the pudding of the experiments".

His book "My Big Toe" is really something to check into, he explains how he became enlightened and gives a clear model of the whole workings of reality, from the inner to the outer, from this physical reality to the unbounded void of oneness.

He explains the workings of time and space, not just of the universe, but from a larger perspective. This book is probably still the most enlightening thing I've ever read, none of those lovely quarky buddha koans though, just simple clear scientific explanations.

Another good thing about this book is its totally non-religious. It is defiantly spiritual, but no religious terms, just clean cut simple scientific terms.

This is just an example though. What I am trying to say is do not deny this, try to imply this to your trip, to your meditation, to your life. Try to discover for yourself, its really real, I've meditated on it a hundred times and there is no denying. One must just learn the technique.

 

We'll see whose the last one laughing. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA