Religious Backgrounds

I’m curious to know how many others out there had religious upbringings and had to suppress their same sex desires because they were taught it was evil and a “gross sin” before God.

When and how did you come out of that oppression?

I had always had some level of attraction towards men since my youth. It was stronger towards women but it was certainly there. But in my head I had to keep denying it since it was pounded in my head that same sex relationships are “evil”.

In my 40s I started seeing the hypocrisy of all religions and decided to quit playing the game of constant criticism, condemnation, and manipulation. Also I was growing more attracted to men than women after decades of nothing but bad experiences with women.

So now at age 55 I’m looking for a good man to share my life with. I often wonder if I would have already found that man if I hadn’t been suckered by religion most of my life.

 

I have been a "lapsed Catholic" for many, many years; I alsoattended Catholic school in the 1960's.

At that tender age, I had no idea what ANY sort of sex was; all I know I was VERY strongly attracted to other males, my age and adult, especially if they were equipped with "plenty of meat in the seat".

As I grew older, I've heard MORE than my share of anti-gay/bisexual "preaching" from Catholic clergy; in grade school (learned this after I had grown up) that the pastor of our parish was not only having an affair with the mother of one of my classmates, but also, had mistresses in other cities.

So much for celibacy and respect for marriage.

It never ceases to amaze me as to how the Catholic (and other) churches preach so strongly against homosexuality, BUT the commandments "Thou shalt not commit adultery" and "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife", more or less, get swept under the carpet.

Believe me, I worked with many church-going, "good upstanding Catholic family men" (many who, also, were vehemently ant-gay) who frequented high-end call girls, and thought nothing of bragging to their straight buddies about how many women they were having sex with, even though they were married.

Talk about hypocriscy.

"As long as it's NOT gay, it's OK."

It also scares me to think of what ant-gay/bi religious thinking is instilled in the minds of vunerable young Christian boys at Christian Youth Camps.

IMHO, I think that the ULTIMATE blasphemy is preaching hatred in God's name; the Bible, sadly, has often been used as a tool of hatred and intolerance, instead of a book of inspiration and goodness.

Years ago, there was a group of "holy roller" guys (from Texas?) who were known as "Bash Fags For Jesus".

The first time I read of that, I was both terrified and sickened.

Great way to show your love for the Lord; beat up innocent men, just because of their sexuality.

Personally, I always thought that LOVE, in God's eyes, was just that......LOVE......it does not matter who loves whom.

I think, IMHO,that God would rather see two men LOVE one another than to HATE each other.

Like politics, I consider myself an "independent"; I do not affiliate myself with any religion;instead, I read of many different denominations and beliefs, and focus on the positive aspects of each.

In reading on Japanese history: I've read that, long ago, some Buddhist sects considered sex between men to be more virtuous, meaningful, and more rewarding than sex with women.

I only know this because I greatly enjoy reading of world history.

Let your relationship with "the Man upstairs" be a personal one, strictly between you both......

 

Same with me. Thanks for your inputs.

 

That bugged me too.

Totally agree!

I’ve heard this too. Also have read that deep friendships between men are always more pure and meaningful than with a man and woman. The woman is always seeking to get something from the man but friendships between men are solely for the sake of enjoying each other’s company.

Amen to that! Thanks for your inputs.

 

You are most welcome!

 

As I said, I prefer to keep my "religion" private; my beliefs are comprised of the more positive aspects of several religions, and going by them, with my relationship with "the Man upstairs" personal and private.

I watch very little television; however, I've noticed (it is quite obvious) that f/f friendships are OK, but NOT m/m friendships.

Any of a number of commercials show two women in a car together, dining out together, etc.

Trying to find a commercial where two MALES are together, with no females, is like searching for a needle in a haystack.

I've watched "America's Funniest Home Videos" for 30-odd years now; I've certainly noticed that, while there is no shortage of videos featuring females together enjoying fun and friendships, there is hardly anything that depicts MALES together, with no women, just enjoying spending time together.

Why f/f friendships are beyond suspect, but m/m friendships are just the opposite, is beyond me.

Oh, I forgot....REAL men don't show feelings or emotions towards OTHER men, unless they are family members.

Obviously, there is a "stigma" attatched to m/m friendships, because it might appear "too gay".

This is a subject I am VERY sensitive about.

IF "real men" bond, if you will, these days, it is either at a sporting event or a strip club.

For many years, my best friend (who was like a brother to me) was totally straight; yet, my sexuality meant nothing to him.

He truly regarded me as his brother, and we had a strong and VERY tight friendship for many years, and got together frequently (he was also a former co-worker of mine) and had a lot of crazy times together.

He passed away 12 years ago; I still feel a deep sense of loss today, may he RIP.

When I was working, it never ceased to amaze me as to how STRAIGHT guys thought that the idea of two men having sex was beyond gross, BUT, the SAME guys thought that two WOMEN having sex was HOT!

Double standard?

Hell, yes!

Religion, once again, is something that I believe is a PERSONAL matter, most especially if you are a gay or bi male.

Base your faith on SINCERITY and HONESTY; if you find yourself a minister (or a rabbi) who has a congregation of one (and that "one" is yourself) let love, brotherhood, and tolerance be your guide.....

 

When I was still working in Manhattan, over 20 years ago, I often stopped into the historic Trinity Church, just up the block, simply to enjoy a few minutes respite from a hectic workplace, and, also, to bask in the silent glory of the magnificent old architecture and handsome stained-glass windows.

One day, when I was just about to leave, I saw a small pamphlet on the rack that said "THINK YOU'RE A LOSER?"

I still have it (somewhere) but I still recall the last words:

"God does not make losers".

I think this especially speaks to those of us who are gay or bi.

I used to compare myself to straight men, successful men, handsome men, popular men.

Then, one day, I simply stopped.

Why?

As my foray into the "real world", these days, only entails going to the local stores once or twice a week, and live very quietly alone, I no longer feel the need to "compete" with any other man, particularly straight and successful men.

Religion-wise, as I had said, inspired by a comment from "Fiddler On The Roof":

"I am a Rabbi with a congregation of one."

Another words, my "religion" is made up of not one denomination, but several, and only taking to heart those teachings that I can truly relate to....no bigotry, hated, or intolerance.

My late mother (who lived to be 99, God bless her) often said that "holy rollers" were nothing more than "cultists".

How right these lady was.

What scares me is when I think of how many teens/young adults, who are gay/bi, and forced to hide their true selves, who attend Christian Youth camps; I shudder to think of the anti-gay/bi intolerance that is being seeded into their young minds.

What is REALLY sad, these days, is that the Bible is too often used as a symbol of HATE and INTOLERANCE, instead of a book of guidance, faith, and goodness.........

 

I recall, years ago, when a fellow co-worker I knew quite well, became a born-again Christian.

This guy (who I used to like to talk to once in awhile, and was also quite likeable) now had to bring Jesus into EVERY conversation, even if you were talking about riding on the subway or a new stereo you had purchased.

EVERYTHING was now "born again"-influenced with this guy.

I once commented on a book that i had found in the store, that I had wanted to locate for a long while, and he replied to me: "Well, remember, Jesus wanted you to have this book."

Needless to say, I knew, even then, that THIS was someone to steer clear of.

Don't even get me started on televangilists......Satanic cultists in suits and ties, nothing more.......they, literally, terrify me.......

 

Unfortunately I was like that for a while. Lost lots of friends. Embarrassing to think back to it.

 

I cannot believe how I managed to escape the "religious trauma". I was born and raised Roman Catholic, went to Catholic schools from K-6 & 7-8, went to mass every Sunday, did the whole first communion and confirmation thing, and felt very close to my priest, who was very young in his 20s, had long hair (this was the 1960s and 70s), acted like one of us, and who I thought was the coolest guy ever. He led, out of the church basement, first, the Cubs and, then, the Boy Scouts groups I was part of throughout my childhood, including many camping outings. I have no idea how I managed to avoid becoming an altar boy, something as you'll see below that I'm really grateful for. And I almost went to a Catholic high school, run by nuns in a former convent building, but at the last minute after an interview there decided I wanted some technical subjects besides the academic ones (even though I was a super academic), which only the public system provided.

But I don't remember ever hearing anything about homosexuals from the Catholic schools and church. That certainly would've had an influence on me, because I was "sexually experimenting" with my male best friend from across the street from ages 8-13--while I was in Catholic school, lol. I never thought anything of the gay sex at the time, except that it was very enjoyable. Only as I began coming out to myself from 30 years of age onwards did I begin to see that 6 years of those feelings and that behaviour were not normal childhood "experimentation". I feel very fortunate in one way that I never heard official homophobic remarks back then, thus allowing me to enjoy my friendship with that boy. It was only from peers that I would sometimes hear homophobic remarks, especially from bullies, including female bullies, who tormented me and beat me up often, many times calling me a faggot, though I never thought of myself as gay or bi, and certainly don't think I exhibited any visible traits in public. I was just a shy kid, very smart academically, non-athletic, and prey for the bullies.

As it turns out, I wonder now whether homophobia was not part of our school system or church because our priest, who had great influence on the school and not just the church, was a homosexual, albeit a very messed up one. Only in the last 15-20 years has it come out that he had been sexually abusing many boys during his priesthood, including altar boys and many others. Like all the stories we've heard, the Church knew and protected him, and only eventually defrocked and excommunicated him. But that was all done in secrecy. Only more recently has it become public knowledge through the many court trials (which still continue) and media, and he has served prison time a few times already. What amazing good fortune that I managed to escape all of that. Those poor boys, now men! So sad.

Anyway, I totally independently I came to the conclusion, in university, that the Catholic Church, and really most other Christian Churches, were fundamentally hypocritical, especially to the words of Jesus himself. Fortunately, I always try to live the life He taught--to love everyone, all the time, and not judge others. It was only in my early 30s, independently of my rediscovering my gay feelings which was all happening at the same time, that I discovered another religion, one that actually taught Jesus' words, Buddhism (but not the Japanese Buddhist sects that were mentioned). What I joined was Tibetan in origin, but brought to the West and presented to people of the modern world, in their crazy, busy lives (in fact, that teacher just died a few days ago at 91). This particular tradition fully accepts everyone, including whatever sexuality, etc., and men and women are 100% equal. In fact, I lived in one of their temples/centres, in the heart of San Francisco, for a year (that was also independent of my bisexuality--though I'd be remiss not to admit that I did take advantage, sexually speaking, of living in that city)!

So I consider myself very fortunate in the "religious trauma" department. But of course that never stopped me from internalizing all the homophobia in our society at large, something that I have been unravelling for 30 years. I'm still working on it, but I am now embracing my gay side like never before, and in fact I'm looking for sex and even love with only men now.

 

... I wish and pray for you all who are still trying to unravel all this "religious trauma" and fully integrate as a whole person. I believe it's especially hard when you're not out to your family and friends, in order to get their support. I am only out to my past therapist, my current therapist, my ex-girlfriend, and a handful of women. That's mostly because it's very private and my gay side has only manifested sexually so far (though I'm now open to falling in love with a man, having recently discovered that I'm capable of that, as I recently developed unrequited but strong romantic feelings for a male, straight friend). Add onto all of the internalized homophobia and self acceptance the whole aspect about faith and spirituality, and I can't imagine the struggle. Good luck and my best wishes to all of you.

Love,
Gary

 

Gary:

OUTSTANDING posts; much honesty and integrity are indeed a powerful part of the man you are.

I, too, was born and raised a Catholic, and I attended Catholic school from kindergarten through 7th grade.

I have been "lapsed" for well over 25 years now; I prefer these days to "celebrate" my own "religion" with "the Man upstairs", on a personal, one-on-one relationship.

Gay and bi men, together, suffer so tremendously, in so many ways, throughout their lives.

Given this, our inner resilience, courage, and fortitude come into play in a large way.

I have seen.......heard......read....of so much homophobia from so many different religions; these days, I focus on the POSITIVE aspects of different religions and try to adhere to them as best I can.

I often think to myself:

"Would Jesus HATE a GAY or BI man?"

Most certainly NOT.

Personally, I believe that He would would like to see two men LOVE one another than HATE one another.

And, to those highly-misguided straight individuals who think gay men have CHOSEN their sexuality........I would say this: "WHO in their RIGHT MIND would CHOOSE a LIFESTYLE that would set him up for a lifetime of heartache, heartbreak, and discrimination?"

Think about it.

Gary, again, excellent words and much insight......

John

 

I live in the Bible Belt, but for me its more having to put up with people who are religious than being brought up religious. I believe in God, but not organized religion, because I believe religion is responsible for a lot of evil and a lot of problems. (Just look at the Spanish Inquisition and forced conversions, for example.) I know a few people who are of the `I'm better than you because I go to church' and `Believe everything in the Bible' variety, sadly. Including a few aunts, uncles, and cousins that I'd deem `Jesus freaks' (ie, overly religious to the point it controls their entire lives.)

And `pray the gay away' and `its a choice' are absolute bullshit.

 

John 1971:

I could NOT agree more.

Years ago, somewhere in the "Bible Belt", there was a group of "holy roller" homophobes that called themselves "Bash Fags For Jesus".

Sickening.

Tell me THAT isn't BLASPHEMY against a kind and loving Jesus!

Strange that so many "good upstanding Christian men" who are totally bigoted think nothing of cheating on their wives with other women.

Hypocriscy.

Think about this:

A STRAIGHT man who "plays the field" is looked upon as a manly "stud" by his pals.

A GAY man, in a one-one-one mature relationship with another man is a DEGENERATE.

Double standard?

Hell, yes!

Too often these days, both religion and the Bible is twisted around to become weapons of hate.

Recall in the Bible:

"Judge not, lest ye be judged"

Sadly, the bigots overlook that one, all to frequently.....

 

So many wonderful inputs, thanks everyone!

 

You are QUITE welcome, my friend!

It is AMAZING that, even though we here all so different, in so many ways, so many of us share many common experiences, trials, tribulations, and opinions........