Question for all the religious people. but first,I should say; I myself and very religious and I am am still holding strong to my beliefs. I find myself questioning my beliefs the more I learn about science, but at the same time, I am also still very religious. Some days I feel silly for believing something so ridiculous, but other days I feel the spiritual side. so, my question is; the more you learn, and become educated, do you move farther from your religion? do you feel that science and religion can co-exist within your own mind?
I am not religious but since this is not the Sanctuary forum, I'll respond regardless and maybe some probing from a different perspective like mine might help you elucidate and analyze your own thoughts and questions... I'm interested in trying to understand WHY you want science and religion to co-exist? What is it about, let's say Christianity for example (or substitute whatever your Religion is), that you find appealing in trying to maintain the beliefs of people ~2,000 years ago in a remote part of the world with no access to technology, completely different societal structure, relatively limited understanding of the natural world, etc. and reconcile that with science and the world we live in today?
I think the simple answer to that is the fear of not knowing. If you choose both routes then everything in life is explained to its fullest understanding. I don't particularly find that appealing and prefer the mysticisms of the unknown.
The thing is, science doesn't have all the answers and maybe no one ever will. But, if faith brings you a sense of peace and comfort, you can still use science in a practical way. But, it can only answer so many questions. I'm not saying we should input the ''god of the gaps'' theory, but I think that science and faith can work together in a person's life. You don't need to necessarily forgo the other, UNLESS, you believe the Bible as a literal translation, all the way through. Then, it could be problematic when it comes to Genesis/origin of man vs theory of evolution, for example.
Oh okay. I don’t see your beliefs contradicting science. Do you feel that some of the beliefs found in Wicca contradict with science? The Abrahamic faiths seem stricter in that regard.
It is the magic. I understand that it may be something to do with energies that science can't explain. But, something about that just doesn't quite sit well with me. I have done many spells in the past, and I have seen results.I guess maybe this is how Christians feel when they have had a clearly spiritual experience, but also understand science.
I'm interested in understanding why anyone wouldn't see religion and science as coexisting. Science is about acquiring knowledge about material reality by gathering evidence and rigorously testing falsifiable hypotheses. Its the gold standard in acquiring reliable knowledge about the world and multiverse we live in. Religion is about meaning and the numinous--two things that science doesn't purport to provide. Just because something is 2.000 years old doesn't mean that it's necessarily obsolete. It could mean that a belief system has stood the test of time. But religious beliefs should be consistent with science and reason. I agree with Houston Smith that "If we take the world's enduring religions at their best, we discover the distilled wisdom of the human race." Of course, if we take them at their worst, we discover the depths of human folly and brutality. So we need to refine our judgment and look at the subject with a critical and discerning eye.
Given some of our prior discussions, you have probably correctly analyzed that I'd expound on that further and totally minimize the necessity of religion, if the rest of that paragraph below the bolded part was directed towards me. But of my most favorable view towards cognitively integrating both Science and Religion, I think you have essentially answered the initial thought for me in the bold part, they are different domains of understanding, which means one shouldn't have such conflict in cognitively integrating the two, they just exist independently. However, it seems this type of question occurs frequently, so I'm assuming for a lot of people, it's likely to be a bit more complex. For example, perhaps some note the history of the relics of understanding of the natural world of the past expressed most vehemently by religious inspired peoples, such as the geocentric model of the universe and see how it's incompatible with modern science's understanding of the universe or perhaps some learn more about science and start developing visceral responses of awe and wonder as well that prior they had relegated to their religious practices. From my limited understanding of Wiccan magic, my guess would be OP is juggling more of an acute incongruence with specific rituals, spells, etc being performed that say appear to defy the laws of physics and he probably doesn't have a structure in place to test the veracity of their validity. (I.E. Recognizes he only has anecdotal evidence for his religious practices)
In my opinion, I feel that religion either has to adapt with us, or become obsolete. So much of it is irrelevant in today's society. Like not wearing multi blend fabric, etc. And I still believe the only reason the Bible mentioned gays is because back then it made sense to make a lot of babies and increase the population. Not necessary now, is it? I like the stories but I feel they are more figurative than literal. And a lot of people just can't handle it because they feel the need to force their beliefs on others, and start arbitrary wars over it. I'm definitely on the side of knowledge and science. I don't need faith to tell me to be a good person. I do it because it's how I want to be treated. Plus I think a lot of people cling to religion because they're afraid of death. It doesn't bother me that there could be nothing after life ends.
Indigenous spirituality has shown me that there is absolutely a nonphysical side to the universe. I would argue that religion has distanced and alienated itself from any direct experience of spirit. But spirituality can take you there. But it is something you have to experience yourself, because no matter what I say, you will not believe it or even understand it without experiencing it yourself---and even then a Western mind struggles with the reality of what they have just experienced. Consider a Lakota yuwipi ceremony (spirit calling ceremony), for example, you will spend the whole time trying to figure out---how did they do that? But the only conclusion is that no one 'did it.' And then there are so many things that happen outside of the ceremony that connect you to it. Finally there is the resolution of your prayers, and how it plays out exactly as you are told it will play out. Much of this happened after I felt compelled to look at and try to resolve the Post-Modern condition. My goal was to determine what kind of philosophy would be needed to resolve this philosophical problem of the Modern World. But as I experienced so much of this irrational supernatural reality the problem became not how to reconcile spirituality with science, but how to reconcile science with spirituality. I am literally living in two worlds--the Modern Western world, and that of Native ceremony. I had to reconcile these---to bring some kind of rational understanding of what I was experiencing. The classical science of Newton and as it was developed by the empiricists----that does seem to be very much at odds with religion and spirituality. But there are gnawing questions nonetheless, like---what exactly is inertia? What is consciousness? These are problems that provide clues that there is something more to the universe that we cannot tap into. But then the Theories of Relativity start to demonstrate that there is much more to the universe than we can account for through ordinary experience. Light itself is amazingly paradoxical. Then you venture into the realm of quantum mexhanics, and a realm that is so strange, that scientists don't even want to explain exactly what they are dealing with, and prefer to stick to the math. But spirituality does make sense of this, and can be used to resolve various paradoxes within quantum mechanics and so forth. And not just Quantum Mechanics----there is talk about magick in this thread------I have written extensively on Hipforums about the research into intention that was done at MIT. Makihiko, if you want to see how I have resolved this problem, go through my various posts in the philsophy section. You might start with my most recent posts in the existentialist section in a thread about an article by a Naturalist who was trying to suggest a Naturalist spirituality.
