Reincarnation

Yes I'm sure that if we forgive someone, it must mitigate the effect of their karma.
And just to repent of one's bad deeds in the past, and resolve on good intentions must also have a positive effect.

 

how about making extremely racist comments? any bad karma for that?

"Sudras have no brain. In America also, the whole America once belonged to
the Red Indians. Why they could not improve? The land was there. Why these
foreigners, the Europeans, came and improved? So sudras cannot do this. They
cannot make any correction. Now people are becoming sudras by so-called
education. So they cannot make any solution of the problems. If that daiva
varnasrama again established, then the whole problem will be solved."

(Discussions with Syamasundara dasa, John Dewey)


"Misery. Misery is caused due to ignorance. They admit or not.
The more we are kept in darkness of knowledge, we suffer. What is the
difference between ah..., what is called? Developed nations and not
developed nations. This America belonged to the Red Indians. And because
they are not developed, their condition was developed, ah, different from
the present America. They could not construct such big, big house, and big,
big roads, and like that because they are in ignorance. That is the
difference. Prosperity, no prosperity. Happiness, not happiness. They are
ignorance and knowledge."

(Room Conversation with Reporter, June 3, 1976 Los Angeles)


"In this land of America, when the Europeans did not come here to colonize,
the Red Indians were there. They could not develop this American land so
nicely, nice cities, because they were less intelligent. Now you are
intelligent, you have developed it. That means if you have got nice
intelligence, you can live nicely."

(General lecture, April 16, 1969, New York)


"That is the instruction of Lord Rsabhadeva to His sons. He says, “My dear
sons, you cannot imitate your standard of demands of the body like cats and
dogs and hogs. Oh, that is... Then you’ll waste your time. You have got
better opportunity.” Just like there is very nice example. In this land of
America, the Red Indians were living. Still they are living. But their
standard of living, their standard of the same demands of the body, is
different from the civilized nations who have come from Europe to this
country. Therefore it is, America, is now so rich, because their standard of
living and their standard of living is different. They could also develop
this country very nicely, but their civilization, their standard of living,
their consciousness, was different."

(Lecture on SB 5.5.2, April 28, 1969, Boston)


"This material world is karma-krt—you have to do something. Krsna has
explained that “Without acting, you cannot even maintain your body and soul
together.” Sarira-yatrapi te na prasiddhyed akarmanah. If you become idle,
then you cannot even maintain your body. That is the difference between
civilized man and uncivilized man or developed country... (aside Stop
that. Developed country and undeveloped country. Just like America. This
land was inhabited by the Red Indians. They could not do anything, but the
Europeans, when they migrated, they made it so beautiful country. So
karma-krt, one has to work."

(Lecture on SB 6.1.44, June 10, 1976 Los Angeles)

acbsp database

 

Wow. My originally low opinion of this guy has sunk even further. Not only are his comments racist, they are comments of one who gives great value to a materialistic way of life, which has little/no regard for the environment as opposed to a more harmonious and gentle lifestyle.

 

Yeah...maybe he thought if he flattered Americans they'd give him more money or something They whole thing is just one sad display...racism makes me sad...

 

It doesn't exactly display a very high level of intelligence either.
It's actually a bit scary to think this kind if idiocy has an influence on large numbers of people.

 

And even more wierd is that these are similar to the arguments used by the British to justify the Raj in India.


I'm sure SP was basically racist. A friend who is an ex-devotee has once expressed the opinion, no doubt derived from his time in ISKCON, that the Chinese and Japanese are 'sub-humans' -

 

I'm not an apologist for Srila Prabhupada or ISKCON. If he said it, he said it; if it happened, it happened. This is a free speech forum and I'm not going to object to someone else's opinion unless it's a blatant untruth, an outright unqualified dismissal, or obvious intended disruption.

M the H, in this case I consider your post to be an obvious intended disruption that deviates from the ongoing line of discussion on the thread. I'm not surprised; one only needs to look at the Christianity section for numerous examples of your trolling and toilet-based mind and mouth.

 

Tell the joke with a straight face and watch the kids fight over what it means. Ahh...

 

Spook, yes it was a bit tangential, yes Molly does make weird posts in the christianity forum.

All that aside, I just have to ask you this one question. How can you possibly consider a person who goes around making such ignorant and hateful statements to be your guru?

 

You have to if you are a comedian.

 

Bhaskar, you've asked me an honest and sincere question, and I will try and answer in kind.

Whatever I have in the way of a developed spiritual life and a very large part of the knowledge of Indian/Vedic spiritual tradition that I have has come through Srila Prabhupada's ISKCON. I can't imagine life without chanting Hare Krishna, attending temple programs, and associating with ISKCON devotees... I certainly can't envision seeking out another sampradaya and changing my spiritual affiliation at this point in my life, nor do I have the slightest desire to...I take Prabhupada's basic writings and teachings of Krishna Consciousness very seriously, because it is the soundest religious and spiritual philosophy that I have encountered . Maybe I'm one of those fortunate souls who has learned to separate and admit to what I can't honestly believe, such as Prabhupada's stated opinion about the moon landing and the absolute literal accuracy of Vedic scripture, from that which is practical and can have a tremendously positive effect on a person's life.

There's a huge amount of recorded information about Prabhupada's conversations with many, many people...I may never hear much of it except by chance, as happened with what M the H brought to my attention. What do I think?...Srila Prabhupada was opinionated, often to the extreme... Dedicated to spreading his philosophy, yes...The charismatic leader of a rapidly growing religious society who gave large responsibilities to persons who later proved to be unqualified failures, yes. I'm not an initiated disciple of Prabhupada but remember ISKCON well from the days when he was present. Was he an ignorant and hateful person, or a racist?...emphatically no..."Politically Correct" by today's standards, not at all. In this instance, my opinion is that he was simply saying in his very direct manner that the Native Americans by nature didn't have the ability or inclination to build an industrialized society, and Europeans did. You've got to remember that Prabhupada saw the world filtered through his Gita philosophy...in terms of people's bodily and life situations as influenced by the modes of material nature. His very uncompromised way of speaking about this can be taken the wrong way, especially in today's PC atmosphere...there's controversy about it in ISKCON, as well.

I've gone against my previous denial of the "apologist" role, and taken it up here for your question.

 

spooky, i didn't consider my acbs posts on "red indians" at all a diversion... the point of it was is that i find universally those who propigate these punishment of god belief systems of hell, they themselves seem to be among the best candidates to enter these realms... sorry, but prabhupada's characterization of native americans as less intelligent sudras... not that even sudras are less intelligent but victims of exploitation, is not the philosophy of the gita

yes, its nice to be thankful to acbsp for giving you the maha mantra and krishna stories and yes, practicing a regular sadhana is worthwhile, but i think its important to give balance to your life and not to hang on every word of his teachings as a guru who had such blatant disrespect not only for native americans but also for a host of great saintly personages of india such as ramakrishna

in the end, we can say that he was just sincerely following the teachings of his guru... i don't put so much weight in this just following the teachings of a guru as you seem to be doing

i think its important to think independently and objectively... and so if some of my posts seem weird, if you seek greater gestalsis, they are not weird so much so as it is our blind following of twisted belief systems such as christianity that is weird

yes, there are things of love, devotion, surrender and truth but without a clarity of thought, i find those who claim to be devotees of such ideals to be worshippers of confusion

it is my intent to raise points that any reasonable person would observe some weaknesses in the pillars they have tethered their reality too so that they may re-evaluate their cosmology

 

Thank you.

The trouble is that vedic scripture is absolutely 100% accurate. However, Prabhupada has often misinterpreted and mistranslated scripture in ways which even I, with my very basic knowledge of sanskrit, could see as totally flawed. I don't believe that it is said that the sun goes around the moon, vedic astronomy was very very complete and accurate. I dont know which source he is quoting, so I cant go there directly and read and explain what is said, but I am sure it was either mistranslated or taken out of context from a symbolic statement.

I don't see those statements that way at all. So many great saints and devotees of India were shudras. Sant Kabir das for one. Ravidasji for another. Ye he condemns shudras as having no brain.

In the second of Molly's quotes he equates prosperity and material wealth with happiness, insinuating that American Indians were unhappy because they didnt have wide roads and huge malls.

And he repeatedly says the settlers developed this land "nicely." Is brutal murder of thousands, complete disregard for nature, pure blatant materialistic greed... is that "nice"?

Indeed if anything the native Americans were far wiser, they lived like saints and hermits. They preserved a way of life which in so manyw ays was in keeping with vedic lifestyles. He also suggests the native Americans were lazy in comparison with the native Americans, a statement which is laughably idiotic.

Which is exactly how the gita says the world must NOT be viewed. We must see the one divinity in all, that is what bhagavad gita says. Look beyond material body and all filters and see the true spiritual self of all. Only makes it seem like he didnt get his own message, let alone that of the Gita.

Again, thanks.

 

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I'm not sure that every Vedic scripture, or any scripture, come to that, is 100% accurate.Some of the Puranas may well contain stuff that isn't at all accurate, and I think that's where Prabhupada got his wierd notions of cosmology.

And even more wierd is the fact that the very Americans who built all these 'nice roads' etc, are according to SP the same one's who faked the moon landings.

 

An excellent intent - there's too much blind acceptance in my opinion.

 

Lol.
"Only makes it seem like he didnt get his own message, let alone that of the Gita."

Does God hide amidst the foolishness of creation?

 

You'd probably be better placed to answer that for yourself.

 

Find me an example. And please let it not be Prabhupada's "translation."

Puranas actually contain some truly wonderful scientific statements hat modern science is only just catching up with. Bhagavatam describes subnuclear particles, it describes the process of gestation in great detail. In other puranas there is description of test-tube babies (the mahabhaarata actually describes the procedure).

 

OK then, from where did SP derive his cosmological ideas? Even if he mistranslated it, he must have been capable of reading the Bhagavatam in Sanskrit himself.

Rather then me giving examples of errors, why don't you give us the example of the precise verses describing sub-atomic particles.

 

Yes and you do a good job of it, but the point we should be discussing is not cosmology, but reincarnation. Also, You should also agree that just because one acharya for you seems to be a fool in your eyes does not mean that the teachings of other acharyas of the same "religion" is some how flawed as well.