red star microdots

yeah, I thought the mescaline thing was bogus.. thanks for digging up the erowid.

 

Best thing about them is the quirky appearence they look kinda cool

They are about 0.25cm across in a 5 point star


As for mescaline not in those that was a sales hype

Ive heard some people say they are not all that so be aware

 

is windowpane = geltabs?

so you never tried the microdots, lovesliquid? just counted 'em huh? that's a shame.

they are almost TOO tiny though. my friend dropped his on my kitchen floor when i gave it to him. we thought it was lost for sure. he found it, but then our other buddy was like "yeah, you're probably eating a tiny piece of dirt"

i feel like i lose the things in my mouth. they can get stuck between my teeth.

so tiny and so powerful. everyone loves that about LSD:sunny:
i remember dosing my brother the one and only time so far...
when we were tripping, we were talking about how crazy it is that it's just a tiny square, and he made a square between his two thumbs and two pointer fingers - a PERFECT blotter sized square...and the sunlight beamed into the tent, through the square he had made, and i could see his entire face through the square. it was such a perfect, geometrical moment.

now i wanna go read that trip report to remember it all the better:love:

i suppose it's likely my accumulated experience with LSD and tripping in general. nowadays i probably decide that a trip is "over" soon after the peak, where a few years ago i might have decided that my trip wasn't really over until after the entire comedown.

there is still ~20% of me that thinks it's possible that it's an LSD analogue. something very close like ALD-52, LSM, LSB or LSP if those all even exist. i have no real idea how likely any of those are, but i can speculate like everyone else...
the shorter duration sort of suggests something...and the very rapid onset. but that might just mean they are strong.

they certainly are strong though imHo

yeah, they probably just heard it from someone who heard it from someone. but even if the entire microdot was 100% pure mescaline crystals...what is it, a few milligrams? certainly not enough for a strong trip (would need ~300 mg for that i believe)

see above

they probably didn't mean anything bad by it, sure. but there are a lot of rumors out there, and they should be dispelled i think. i even call out my good friends when they say that acid gets stored in your spine or that mushrooms are food poisoning...
mescaline microdots is one more of these myths.

 

The windowpane I use to get would be what looked like a tiny little piece of wax and had the same texture and consistency of a soft wax. So yeah I guess it could be called a geltab. It was so small that if you dropped it on the kitchen floor (a linoleum type floor) you might be able to find it if you got down on your hands and knees and scanned every fraction of an inch of the area of the floor where you dropped it. If you dropped it on the ground outside you would basically be shit out of luck in most cases.

The minimum dosage of top quality or almost pure LSD to trip is about 200-250 MICRO grams which could pretty much fit on the head of a pin.

 

I dig on that too. The last one I did, after letting it sit under my tongue a bit I played with it between my teeth.

Oh man, I just love that reentry period... coming back to 'normal' cognitive functioning and the peak still fresh in mind.

Ya, strong indeed. I'm thinking it might be time for a visit with a star this weekend.

 

i'm not so sure i like that re-entry period. on my very first LSD trip the girl i took it with noticed that i was getting bummed out at the end (because it was ending probably), and i've noticed this in other people as well, sort of a newbie thing? but i guess it always effects me that way a little...of course it's gonna end, and it's not a big deal, but i think a part of me is always bummed when i start coming down.

a visit this weekend, eh? i know you'll of course do what you want, but i don't think you need to be "scared" of taking two one does the trick though (but i think these "increase dose" guys might be onto something)

i'm gonna take 2 or maybe 3 the following weekend. kinda soon for me to be tripping again, but whatever, it's summer.

that's not really the MINIMUM dosage though. i'm sure most people could ~50 ug

i'd rather take ~250 though!


and that doesn't sound like geltabs to me. is windowpane like the picture that voyage posted? cuz those are geltabs to me. i always thought they were the same thing.

 

I'm sure they didn't mean anything bad by it...but just think about how old a rumor this must be considering I was told this back in like 1971 or 1972!!!

I also agree that these myth's need to be dispelled but unfortunately as long as mankind exsist's so will myths and rumors.

 

What I should have said was the minimum dosage for a nice trip.

And no the pics that voyage posted do not look like what I use to get except the shape of the light blue ones is very similar.

What I use to get was not a liquid like in the pics. I was thinking more like gelatin when I saw geltabs.

 

I posted a better windowpane pic, but, I think alot of people called those geltabs windowpane. The one's I had way back were like the tabs.

Ya, just considering it. Like you said, it's summer. :sunny: Weather's awesome to be at the beach... at night Even though I had that most excellent 4 ace experience last weekend, all this talking about L, the reading I've been doing lately, the summertime... I'm kind of thinking I might if things line up properly.

 

Okie-Doky folks.
Mescaline is active at about the 100mg range with 300mg being the threshold for a psychedelic experience. Doses range from 250mgs - 900mgs. All forms of mescaline are rather bulky and 300mg would need a 00 capsule to hold it, at the least. So it would never fit in a microdot.

Windowpane is essentially the same as geltabs. They are produced by infusing a gelatin mixture with LSD and pouring into some type of container like a baking dish or cookie sheet or a mold so it forms a thin layer and allowed to dry, then cut up into individual doses, at least the windowpane of the 70's was produced in that manner.
Windowpane and geltabs are the same critter.

The doses of street LSD have gone down in potency over the decades due to doses being too strong and economic factors (ya make more $$$ if you dose them lower).

LSD has noticeable activity in humans at doses as low as 20ugs, with ~100ugs being the common average street dose as well as the recommended average dose according to Sandoz labs when it was legal and distributed to the medical community. They actually suggested starting with 25ugs and working the dose up in 25 or 50ug increments until the optimum dose for a particular patient was found. The literature suggests that doses of up 800ugs were needed to crack really tough-nut alcoholics

The reason 250ugs is assumed to be the "average" dose is that is the amount Albert took on his first planned trip, it knocked his socks off. During the sixties Owsley White Lightning was around 250-270ugs, I believe Purple Haze was around 300ugs.
The legendary Orange Sunshine produced by Nick Sand was 270ugs per dose.
Due to the potency many people had bad experiences, mainly because of inexperience and the fear surrounding the drug at the time. Subsequently doses began to shrink in weight, and seem to have settled around the 100-150ugs range on average by the end of the 70's and remain that way today. There were and are and always will be exceptions to that and doses in the range of 200-300ugs are not unheard of, just not as common.

The Blue Shivas or Red depending on who you ask that I sampled last year I geusstimated to be in the 200ug range. I was fortunate to have a source of measured doses from about 76-79, Purple micodots confirmed by a lab to be between 170-190ugs each based on an average of three doses sent for analysis. Then I had access to liquid in measured confirmed doses of 100ugs & 150ugs.

150ugs of LSD is a lot stronger than people think. Read some of the early literature from people like Hoffman, Osmond, Groff, etc. The head of Sandoz when Hoffman first discovered LSD, Stoll, gives an account of a 60ugs dose that is rather fantastic (I'll dig up the link later) and reports by many others when it was pharmaceutical precisely weighed doses.

There does seem to be a bit of disagreement about whether or not there is an upper limit threshold to LSD. Leary said he noticed no stronger subjective effects beyond 300ugs, others say differently. We won't even consider thumbprint size dose as those are ridiculous and well outside the scope of what most of us here will ever see. But at those doses, multiple milligrams, LSD seems to be a different animal, or at least according to reports, I've never personally done more than about 900ugs at one time.

I have heard an anecdotal story that Richard Alpert aka Ram Dass gave his Indian guru 1500ugs of LSD and showed no effects from it. When asked about it he responded that the LSD medicine was good and could help show the light (?) but that love was a much stronger medicine. Or something along those lines.
So it also depends on a persons familiarity with altered states of awareness and how comfortable and efficiently they can function within those states.
I have noticed that phenomena personally with my own experiences with psychedelics.
I am hyper sensitive and notice even the faintest alteration in awareness, but can also go with large doses without much problem. I think the same holds true with anyone who becomes adept at navigating the psychedelic landscape.

Nobody2 I remember those graph paper doses around '79. Big greasy looking stains on graph paper, slightly bitter, very colorful and loooong lasting, with a fair amount of "spinal shivers". Not LSD, some form of DOX or something, but certainly not LSD. Took those twice and didn't care for it too much. A friend took about 12 and snorted 1/4 gram of crank (meth) all by himself in a motel room one night. Then he spent the next 9 months in a psyche ward, go figure. ( more due to his addiction to meth, but the intense psychedelic experience pushed him over the proverbial edge)

Last note; ALD-52 hydrolyzes into LSD in the human body, so even if the red stars are ALD-52, the effects are still from LSD-25. Also you have to make LSD-25 as a precursor for ALD-52, so why the hell bother in the first place?
Nick Sand's defense was that they weren't making LSD-25 but the then legal ALD-52. He was still prosecuted because of the fact that in order to make ALD-52 you have to make LSD-25 first, so he went to prison for the manufacture of LSD and ALD-52 got scheduled.


Damn, I haven't banged out a post this long in ages
Sorry I just kinda got on a roll, those that know me now I abhor conjecture and myth and gotta have the facts.

 

Hey herman..awesome post!!! Thank you for the great detailed info. And your description of the graph paper is right on the money! I personally loved the graph paper and did many hits of it. It was very available and cheap as well (I think I was getting it for about $3.00 a hit). Also as you put it "The Legendary Orange Sunshine" would pop up every so often and was a real treat and truly unforgettable. When they did come around you had to snap them up quick because they would sellout in the blink of an eye.

 

Ya, that pretty much covers the territory

At first I was thinking, you confused Owsley with Nick, but then forgot they worked together. I found this poking around, the most footnoted article on Owsley, Scully and the Brotherhood I've seen online. I like the early history mentions of Scully when he was young. Guy was brilliant.

http://www.punkerslut.com/articles/creators_of_orange_sunshine_acid.html

Since you too go back a few years, what's your take on blotter doses these days? In your post you say

If that's the case do you think its extreme when people talk about doing a strip or more? Regardless of Leary's statement (which I doubt he said but, eh..) I would think 1 to 1.5 mg of LSD would be much more than the experiences people share after saying they've done that many hits. In the Handbook for Therapeutic Use from the 50s it was written that doses used were from 100 to 1000 ug, with up to 1500. It said something about higher doses like something over 250 or 300 were used for people that didn't respond with lower amounts. That caught my attention as I've always thought there is a wide variety of response curves between different people.

But ya, for me, those red stars are, like you said, pretty strong.

Did you ever see this?
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_JqUOvsVI4

They don't say if it was orange sunshine or not, but they talk about 300ug hits. 270.... 300.... probably not a big diff. Potent stuff.

 

just the type of speculation i referred to

i don't think there's any real evidence that ALD-52 is converted to LSD in vivo, it's almost the same as 4-aco-dmt getting converted to 4-ho-dmt (psilocin). it makes chemical sense, but even if they are converted, that could call for a different physical response since it takes time for your enzymes to do that...it might hit slower.

i've heard the story about that trial a hundred times, but thanks for contributing anyway. i don't wanna sound like a jerk

i would say these dots are very likely to be LSD and i'm just being way too over analytical about it. but if they aren't, i would guess LSM before ALD-52 (from the tiny bit i've read about it)



so from all your previous experience Hermin, you really think those red shivas were 200 ug? i can believe that, but i only had them once - with my brother at a music festival, so i'm sure most blotter would have given me a nice trip in that setting. i feel like the stars are about equally strong, and they are supposedly 150 ug. that i can believe for sure. but who knows?

 

Yeah,Voyage I have seen that documentary, good stuff. I love how they always seem to use Peter Coyote as the narrator for the LSD documentaries. Ironic considering he was right in the thick of it all and knew Kesey, The Dead, and all the other names from that era in San Francisco.

Yeah I was mistaken about Sunshine apparently, pulling all that from memory and I'm getting old
Cool article you linked. Scully!! that was the name I couldn't remember last night!

My info about dose strengths caomes from different sources and what I posted is kind of an amalgam of info. According to DEA records which they kept up until the early 2000's state that the average street dose averages 80ugs with sampled doses ranging between 20-190ugs, with ~80ugs being the median.

I often wonder about doing tenstrips as well. If the doses are on the low side of the scale, then 10 isn't a monumental dose, if at the higher end of the spectrum, Hoo-boy!, what a ride that would be.

But given the astounding range between effective dose and LD-50 of LSD, taking 1-2mgs is going to be an adventure, but still hundreds of mgs below any concerns of toxicity.

Personally I think dose strengths are often overstated by the manufacturer/seller, but it does seem that the strength has been climbing as of late, or at least according to reports from the good folks here

I will try to find that Leary reference, but I literally have a couple hundred links on the topic, so it may take a while

Here is a pic of Sandoz LSD with the insert info that accompanied it.

 

Read the article Voyage linked, that is exactly what it is about. from that article;
[SIZE=3][SIZE=2][SIZE=3][FONT=tahoma][SIZE=5][FONT=arial][SIZE=3][FONT=tahoma][SIZE=4][FONT=arial][SIZE=3]"However, there was no LSD. The chemical that Sand and Scully were producing was ALD-52. It is "a psychotropic organic compound, which the defendants claim was the licit chemical N-acetyl lysergic acid diethylamide (ALD-52)." [*22] [U][B]When water is added to it, ALD-52 undergoes Hydrolysis, [*23] [*24] which turns it into LSD[/B][/U] -- but ALD-52 itself is not illegal.[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]"


[SIZE=3][SIZE=2][SIZE=3][FONT=tahoma][SIZE=5][FONT=arial][SIZE=3][FONT=tahoma][SIZE=4][FONT=arial][SIZE=3]In the end, though, Duniway relied on the court's chemistry-knowledge: "The government maintained below, and argues here, [U][B]t[/B][B]h[/B][B]at ALD-52 cannot be produced without first manufacturing LSD[/B][/U]." [*30] The defendants, on the other hand, one of them being an exceptionally brilliant chemist, "had devised a method of producing ALD-52 without passing through an intermediate stage in which LSD was produced."[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]

http://www.punkerslut.com/articles/creators_of_orange_sunshine_acid.html

Yeah, I think the Shivas were in the area of 200ugs. But it is a still a guesstimation at best
Keep in mind also that blotter, while being the most practical medium for LSD distribution, it's also the worst when it comes to degradation issues. Any pill type of form is going to be better in terms of degradation because less LSD is exposed to oxygen and light.
That could also account for the difference.

Pork you can be as much of a dick as you want too, I'll still love ya :sunny:

 

For Nobody2

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ll9-jEtEiiI&feature=related

 

Ya, I caught that too.

I was pointing out tho that there wouldn't be much diff with 30ug ... was just interesting to hear Sand talk like that and add up the number of doses he made.

Cool article you linked. Scully!! that was the name I couldn't remember last night!

Did the earlier Microgram Bulletins state doses? I don't recall that but I did dig up alot of them once. I think it was about a discussion about street purity of hits.

It's amazing how much research was done but they don't have a firm grasp of the LD50 in humans. I guess no different than many things, extrapolated from testing on other mammals, but they don't want to kill people to find out.

No worries... unless it comes with some really interesting, obscure Leary info. As much as he deserves recognition, I feel he really got way out there, and saying "going over 300ug doesnt change much" or words to that effect, is like the Ram Dass indian guru saying 1500ug didnt do much. I mean, after a certain point it might have taken 10,000ug for Leary to go.. "WOW!!!"

 

Ya but, your op really was about reviewing those starz... you, herman and myself just went off on a tangent. I only feed into this cause I find the whole lsd urban legend and mythology interesting.

Good stuff you guys. :2thumbsup:

Edit: and to answer that original question, red stars rock!

P.S. You ever wonder why someone choose to make RED stars? With all the RC's coming out of China, I wondered if there was any connection....

 

Ok, thanks for the detailed response. I am curious in possibly trying to seek these dots out. They sound like a quality trip and sound reasonably priced and as you may have seen I am keen on those apb's right now. LSD definitely has lasted a good 10 hours for me when I've taken it usually, a couple trips I have felt like the duration was getting a bit winded but I do enjoy the trip and kind of eager to experience it again.

So I am just trying to juggle if this LSD or 6+ hour LSx-like trip is worth seeking over an 8 hour MDxx-like trip which is less expensive.

 

Ya, some of the literature points to this...

In Handbook for the Therapeutic Use of Lysergic Acid Diethylamide-25: Individual and Group Procedures