Discussion in 'Recycling' started by Fractual_, May 15, 2004.

  1. Fractual_

    Fractual_ cosmos factory

    you good people out there recycle dont you?

    our city just got recycable bins the size of trash cans! so now practically everyone does! what a good idea that was, perhaps you all can suggest them to your city if you dont already!
  2. MaxPower

    MaxPower Kicker Of Asses

    Aside from aluminum, the advantages of recycling are largely overblown. Recycling is an industrial process - a plastic/paper recycling plant creates just as much pollution as a plastic or paper making factory, and it costs money. Lots of money. Paper comes from trees which can be renewed (tree farms exist all over the world), and plastic is something like 4 times as expensive to recycle than it is to create from scratch. Not to mention that landfills create methane gas, which can be used as a source of energy.
  3. Dilapidated

    Dilapidated Member

    ^^ Well that's a downer.
  4. NightOwl1331

    NightOwl1331 Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    My city dropped off recycling bins and said they would pick them up once a week. That was about 2 years ago....and they have never come to take the bins. Some neighbors called to complain and the city said that they were indeed picking up our bins...but they're not. So another neighbor called and the city is still insisting that they're picking up the bins in this neighborhood...but they're not! Very strange. :confused:

    TARABELLE on the road less traveled

    Gosh, up here it's like a way of life. I go through so many newspapers and bottles (beer mostly) that I'd hate myself if I didn't think I was at least TRYING. The post about recycling's futility is a drag, but we shouldn't give up!
  6. Tamee

    Tamee naked

    If that's true, then what the fuck are we supposed to do?
  7. consuming less in the first place is the best idea. recycling has some impact, although it is rather low as was already stated. don't stop recycling though... landfills and incineration are worse than the recycling manufacturing process.

    The concept of recycling has been sold so heavily to consumers to encourage them to continue to consume at astronomical and completely unchecked rates while allowing them to work under the belief that they are making a siginificant difference.
    Here are some real ways to make a difference:
    * Only buy what you need.
    * Buy in bulk whenever possible. ie, pasta, grains, nuts, cereals, etc
    * bring your own containers or re-usable bags to put your bulk buys in.
    * don't buy anything in excessive packaging.
    * bring your own re-usable/fabric grocery bags to the store.
    * don't buy bottled water... invest in a small household water filter & a couple of re-usable and refillable bottles to take to work, school, etc.
    * avoid stuff like soda... it creates enormous amounts of waste, sucks up water supplies in the manufacturing & drains your body's potassium levels.
    * don't put your fruits & veggies in plastic bags at the store. bring your own fabric bag or skip the bag altogether.
    * don't buy stuff like cleaning products. Lemon juice, baking soda & white vinegar are the only 3 things you need to clean ANYTHING.
    * and if you really want to take it a step further, send emails to companies telling them you want less packaging on products you buy. Like cereal, for example. Why does it come in a box when it's already in a bag inside the stupid box???

    i've got about a million suggestions... just email me for more ideas.

    have a beautiful day!
  8. backtothelab

    backtothelab Senior Member

    Max is right, recycling is bad, the real solution is to 1 compost paper and 2 not make plastic.
    I don't know if I've gone over this yet(i may have), but over 70 percent of US landfills is paper. Now normally, this paper would rot and decompose in a couple of days, but because of how a modern landfill is constructed, it does'nt. It used to be a hole that you threw your garbage into. It would rot, everything would be fine and dandy, but it smelt, and later, people found out that all sorts of disgusting liquids were dripping into the groundwater. So, they built the modern landfill, which is basicly, a layer of rock, a layer of plastic, then garbage mixed in with lye, then more plastic on top, then dirt,then more garbage, and so on. So now, all this paper that would normally decompose, now just sits there. No bacteria can break it apart, because of the lye, no water or sunlight can get in, because of the plastic... it fucks up the whole works.
  9. AutumnAuburn

    AutumnAuburn Senior Member

    When I was still in PA, I used to compost all of my paper, except that which went down the toilet. I also composted all of my food waste and plant refuse. I then recycled my plastic and glass. The amount that was actually sent to the landfill was a tiny fraction of what it was beforehand. I was also working on plans to compost human waste, but I moved, before that came to fruition.

    Now, I live in an upstairs, urban apartment with absolutely no dirt (or space outside) whatsoever.

    I'm considering building a worm box, however I don't know who I would give the compost to-since I can't use it anymore. The county has a WONDERFUL recycling and yard refuse composting program here, three miles down the road. They charge to take yard refuse and I doubt that they would take my worm compost, for free... :( But, on the upside, they take just about everything else. :)
  10. kayatree

    kayatree Member

    Good points... but I think it's important to remember that a lot of environmental solutions cost more than their originators. That's what made the original choice so popular at first, and what makes the alternative so difficult to integrate.

    As time goes by the switch from non-sustainable to sustainable will become less intrusive and more relaxed. The economic benefits will be indirect (like some are now) but they will most definitely be helpful.

    It may cost more to buy a hybrid now, but who knows what it could save you in the future - gas, health care... who knows?


  11. Hey Nightowl,
    I just noticed you were in Tampa. On the USF Tampa campus, on Sycamore Street, there are a bunch of recycling bins. You can take cardboard, aluminum, glass bottles (any color), plastic bottles (like milk), paper, phone books and even clothes. It takes a little more initiative because you have to do it yourself, but it does make a little difference for stuff you can't live without... it's better than landfills or dumping it in the ocean, at any rate.
  12. EllisDTripp

    EllisDTripp Green Secessionist

    Plastic recycling does NOT create nearly as much pollution as making new plastic, because no significant new raw materials are needed, just the energy needed to melt and reform the plastic, which is the same as that required to make NEW plastic. The pollution and energy losses inherent in drilling for oil and refining it, and manufacturing virgin polymers are all eliminated.

    Boo fucking hoo.

    Goddess knows we can't do ANYTHING that cuts into corporate profits, right? Never mind all the jobs created by the recycling industry.....

    Only if the future environmental and social costs of extracting more oil are ignored, as they usually are....

    They create methane (much of which dissipates into the atmosphere and contributes to global warming), while leaching heavy metals and other toxins into the groundwater, occupying huge amounts of land that could be put to other uses, and generally stinking to high heaven.

    There are much better ways to generate methane, FWIW....
  13. MaxPower

    MaxPower Kicker Of Asses

    Touche, my good man.

    Our entire economy is driven my money, so yeah. It's also not just the money, it's the effort in general. It's easier, cheaper, and more efficient to just make new plastic rather than recycle the old stuff. As for jobs, the public's money could be put to beter use if the workers were doing something worthwhile besides sorting through garbage all day, like fixing potholes.

    Be that as it may, it's still more expensive to recycle plastic. I agree with you, but since there's no way to force anyone to buy recycled plastic or stop drilling oil, there's no reason we should have to pay more for plastic.

    Actually, modern landfills are extremely sanitary and efficient. There are impermeable layers underneath so that no toxins soak into the ground or the water, and they don't smell at all. Plus, virtually all the methane is taken through pipes to be turned into electricity, so none of it goes into the atmosphere.
  14. EllisDTripp

    EllisDTripp Green Secessionist

    Cheaper and easier, maybe, but it is NOT more efficient. Recycling recaptures a significant proportion of the energy that went into manufacturing the raw material, energy that would otherwise be wasted in a landfill.

    Seeing as unemployment is surging nowadays, I think we could find enough people to sort recyclables AND fill potholes.....

    Sure there is. Mandatory recycled material content requirements for consumer products would be a good place to start....

    With a guaranteed demand generated by the mandatory content requirements, economies of scale kick in, which would make recycled materials economically competitive.

    And what percentage of EXISTING landfills meet those design criteria?

    BTW, the liners under landfills are hardly "impermeable". They can and do leak:
  15. MaxPower

    MaxPower Kicker Of Asses

    While I personally like the idea, there's no way that such a socialist reform as to force companies to use a certain type of plastic is going to happen anytime soon. Or possiby anytime in the future. The way things are now, recycling is inefficient, overhyped, and the jobs it creates aren't doing much besides give the public's money away. On their own, recycled materials (aside from aluminum) can't compete with their newly produced counterparts, and cost money and energy that could be spent elsewhere to manufacture .

    Then how about a Landfill Rennovation Act, that forces all landfills to meet new criteria?
  16. Maverick

    Maverick Banned

    I've moved recently, so now I have no recycling bins. We just have to put everything in the trash. We don't mind though, the only reason we recycled in the first place is because all of it wouldn't fit in the trash, and now, they'll pick up as much as we can put out. And, they come by twice a week.
  17. EllisDTripp

    EllisDTripp Green Secessionist

    Why not? We have regulations forcing all manner of products to conform with standards regarding safety, toxic materials, labor standards, truth in labelling, etc. Yes, the corporations fought these tooth and nail, but the public interest prevailed. All it would take is public pressure and an administration that wasn't in the pockets of the petrochemical industry......

    Againm, you are leaving out any examination of the savings to natural resources, and the environmental and social costs of extracting them. Every pound of plastic recycled represents OIL that doesn't need to be drilled for, spilled, refined, and belched into the atmosphere. Just because these costs may not show up in the next quarterly balance sheet, doesn't mean that they don't exist. Your accounting methods only look at costs that are immediate, not future impacts.....

    Wouldn't that be a "socialist reform as to force companies to use a certain type of construction"? :) I thought you just said that such things wouldn't work....

    In real life, they wouldn't. Excavating existing landfills to install liners would likely spread contamination even farther and faster than it would naturally.
  18. MaxPower

    MaxPower Kicker Of Asses

    Looks like I've been beaten at my own game.....damn you :confused: . When you look at it that way, recycled plastic probably would work out better in the long run.
  19. moon_flower

    moon_flower Banned

    True recyclers are far and few between. There are so many more categories to recycling than most care to address.

    For example taking your paper recycling a bit further would mean separating color, takes a lot of time and money for the recycling companies to do that shit.
  20. metro

    metro self-banned

    One person argues against recycling and you guys (excepting Ellis and a couple others) just accept his argument? Are your minds that malleable? How about doing some research first? sheesh.

    Acquiring raw materials and natural resources to convert into usable product is an energy intensive activity. We save energy by recycling and reduce the need to strip mine and cut down forests and plant more tree farms (which aren't forests).

    Many Superfund sites are former solid waste landfills. They pollute our air and water. Not many of these landfills collect the methane they produce either.

    I see recyclables in the trash all the time, how hard is it people?
    Gee, what makes more sense....buying something, using it once, then throwing it away, later replacing it.....OR.....extracting a resource ONCE, using it, recycling it, using it AGAIN. ?

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