Rather Nice Omnis.

Megara

hi, please go and educate yourself about slaughterhouses and factory farms, these places are very cruel! How field animals are killed, doesn’t make meat eating less cruel, its still cruel and needless and can be easily avoided.

About field animals and vegetarian/ meat eating……

Animals raised on factory farms have to consume a lot of grains and plant matter, to grow. It takes way more plant calories to ‘make’ a pound of meat, than if the person just ate the plant calories themselves. Vegetarians consume less plant matter than meat eaters, vegetarian eat plants straight from the source rather than feeding a truck load to an animal first. I read that most of the corn in USA, about 80% is used to feed ‘food’ animals, in meat production.

So really, most of the field animals that are killed in the crops, are being killed in crops that are used in meat production. Per unit of food meat diet would kill more animals than a vege one.

Also so called grass-fed beef and sheep farms, I’m surround by them here, and they still use a lot of of hay and silage. Field animals get killed in those harvesters as well…it isnt just factory farmed animals getting fed crops.

 

i never claimed that there was anything humane about the meat industry.


However, we all have blood on our hands. I just find it hypocritical that ANYONE can take a moral stand on being ethically superior knowing that what they eat KILLED something. To say "well my way of eating KILLED LESS!" is the biggest joke in history. As i said earlier, was hitler any less evil than stalin even though he killed like 10 million less people?

Now i dont know about you, but i dont see a huge difference between a a gopher who gets his back broken by a tractor as being anymore humane than a chicken who gets its head chopped off. But thats just me.


I'd have more respect if vegetarians subsisted on their own little garden where they can ensure that no animal is killed by a tractor. Since most dont, taking a morally superior standpoint is hypocritical IMO.


anyways, this thread was supposed to go back to the topic at hand

 

It's not about being 'superior' - it's about attempting to live your life in the most compassionate way possible. I don't know any veggies who consider themselves superior to others, because as you rightly say, we al have blood on our hands. It's impossible to live a life that causes no suffering without becoming a hermit. Your analogy to Hitler and Stalin does not stand up, because neither of them were attempting to minimise suffering - they were actively setting out to kill people.

 

this is something we arent going to agree on

 

Two omni friends of mine, actually my friend and her mom, have really been sweet to me too...

We went off to my friend's chalet for two days, and not only did they provide plenty of vegetarian food for me, but they didn't bring any meat... I was really pleasantly surprised... it's strange enough when an omni caters for vegetarian meals, and it's even stranger (and more pleasant) when the omni eats vegetarian food to avoid upsetting the vegetarian . I mean, it's their chalet, they could have brought 10 steaks for all that concerned me... but they didn't... so yeah, this again proves omnis can be rather sweet

 

may i ask for your source?

 

I watched a thing on PBS a couple years ago that the amount of cattle in the world is actually very bad. There is to much cattle, and they are releasing so much methane that it is very very very bad for the ozone.

 

Many things damage the ozone. Cars, Tractors, Factories. All of which are needed for both a modern vegetarian and modern omniverous lifestyle. Perhaps we should ban all of them to stop the suffering of human beings and animals and revert back to an agrarian society...i wouldnt mind

 

that wouldn't work but having less cattle in such consentration would take away one big factor damaging the ozone, they also eat alot of grain we could use to feed people, pollute water with waste and make alot of other problems for the enviroment.

 

why wouldnt it work? you dont need any modern technology to subsist. While i personally think we all need to cut back on the amount of waste and green house emissions that we(as society) emit, it is hypocritical to drive in a car and then curse omnis because the cows they eat fart.

 

acually we do need modern things to survive, I don't know about you but I don't know how to forage and hunt my own food or find my own shelter and such, if you do thats great but I doubt it. how would economy's strive and such? so we could live with out meat but we could not live without modern technology...and there are lots of other fuels to use that aren't marketed because the fossil fuel industrys would lose ALOT of money so the goverment won't okay it. and lots of other things we could use for other things where we use oil and such, one word; Hemp.

 

i did, here let me do it again.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/DyeHard/dyehard020501.html

The source Stephen Davis.

Edit: Sorry, it wasnt you who asked the question. I provided my source. Somoene else said the guy was full of it, i asked the source.

Paz: We absolutely do NOT need any modern technology. Do i know how to forage and hunt? No, but i can grow plants....and heck, thats nature, survival of the fittest, adapt or die.

Name ONE modern technology that we absolutely need to survive. I'll give you a hint, there isnt one, we've existed for thousands of years without any modern technology. Sure cars would be nice, sure penicilin would be nice. The telephone is great, but we dont need any of this.

WOrld markets? Who cares. Grow your plants, fleece your sheep, eat your food and make some clothes. Its not the high life, but people have existed on this for a long time.

 

i remeber reading that guys paper, and it was crap, he also made calculations about amount of animals killed but didnt do them properly and the results were screwed up. I read his paper and another paper which basically picked his to bits. the maths part of his paper was terrible, even I could see it plain as day.ill try paste a link or something later

 

yeah, i'll bet you could produce enough food for your entire family and not have to worry about famine, robbers and natural disasters

 

thats part of the challenge!


BTW, the head of a vegan organization even concedes that animals die in the process. Why people argue that is silly. The only question is exactly how many.

 

Bye bye Astro/Oniko

*waves*

You know, I was just thinking recently how much more pleasant it's been in the veggie forum since you left. People are actually having civilised discussions without threads descending into bitterness and bitching. And waddaya know..... as soon as you turn back up, it starts getting nasty again.

Maybe you should take a step back and have a long, hard look at your behaviour. Why is it that you seem to have such a negative effect on this forum? Is it really everyone else, or might it just be you?

Also, considering you were threatening to boycott this forum for so long, and actually requesting a ban at one point, why is it that you keep coming back? Is it just that you have a destructive personality and enjoy causing trouble? Are you lashing out at others as a way of compensating for your own unhappiness?

Obviously you can't answer these questions without sneaking back into the forum again, so I suggest you just consider the points that I've made before continuing to make a fool of yourself.

 

Well I’m reading your post, and I can reply , and your post seems pretty bitter itself, imo your post sounds like an old school teacher, telling ppl off like they are a child or something. Also posting to someone who cant reply is really low, why do you do that?

 

Whatever. Read into it whatever makes you feel good.

Lol, you're gonna have to try harder than that if you wanna offend me. I've been called a lot worse than anal

Hmmm. So by 'low', you mean 'low' in like, for instance, someone who sneaks into a forum pretending to be someone else and deceiving people? Or do you mean 'low' like refusing to comply with a ban imposed by a forum owner? Or do you mean 'low' like making inflammatory and sarcastic comments, and then pretending not to have done so, in order to stir up trouble?

 

i mean low as in low because the other person is unable to reply.
lol at posting to tell someone off about 'being bitchy' when you KNOW the other person cant reply back. How bitchy is that itself! And regarding Astros posts, ive never seen her post stuff like that. yeah & i did say anal, but i then took it out b4 you replied, so thanks for quoting me on my first 5 seconds of post ... lol at saying stuff like 'now you should go think about what ive told you, tsk tsk' seriously who are you? Are you the forum person or something cause you seem real power mad imo.

 

Like I said, dude. Sneaking back in and pretending to be someone else is pretty low behaviour to start with. Not to mention a complete lack of respect for Skip. Love him or hate him, it's his forum, and if he doesn't want Astro here then she should abide by his decision.