Rainbow question

I like bringing toys for the kids and putting them on my blanket. The kids come up and say, "can I trade you a song for this?" It's cute. Then I sparkle up the little girls. Facepaints are fun too. I love that there are so many different colors of the rainbow. I'm purple.
I love your buddha baby Succulent Flower

Earthmother is wise

Love, peace and veggie grease,
Crystal

p.s. I know this might sound cheeeesy but it works. When you are in conflict with someone just think loving thoughts about them whenver they come into your head.

 

I have read earthmother's posts in the past and always found wisdom in her writing. Thank you earthmother for your wisdom, I mean no disrespect to your opinions. But I was surprised to be admonished by you for asking a question. I was taught and always have believed that no question is a stupid one.

And yet I am told that this question has been hashed over many times before. I'm sure folks more wise than myself have considered it. It's a quagmire and better for me to step around it because "Nothing is accomplished" in my asking on it.

I was hoping that I could accomplish insight into the gathering and the people who attend. I was trying to do that by asking questions.

SucculentFlower, perhaps someday I will earn enough of your respect to ask impertinent questions. Until then I will heed the advice to step around issues that may cause discomfort or issues that I was never fortunate enough to be around when they were discussed in the first place.

In this tread I pondered making sewing kit's, much like bringing toys for children, because I perceived a need. From my experience with people who live on the road, a needle is a precious commodity when you need one. I was told that was taking advantage of a need. I also pondered making cookies and candies, because people love my baked goods and I know that vegans always have a sweet tooth. I was told there was plenty of sweets at the gathering and that trading food was bad but trading ganja and tie dye is good because these things were not City Goods. I was told that I am listening through filters. That I should share with everybody but only trade with people I know or who are camping next to me. In that way trade is done in a spirit of giving. And I was told that collecting little things, like crystals, throughout the year to trade was so not commercialized. And I read the insults and tirades that this topic unwittingly induced. And anytime my discussion became ponderous or the answers ambiguous I was reminded to love everybody. But mostly I pondered the guiding principles that drive folks to say this kind of trade is fun and tribal and that kind is bad.

And like I am certain will happen again, I was told not to give any of this any thought. I will be told that the gathering is many things other than the trade circle. I will be told that the gathering brings many people together with diverse opinions. But, these new ways, where knowledge is passed on without question, are unique to me. I just can't believe that is what the gathering is all about! This thread is the first I have heard of it.

I have a belly button, so I am sure to gain admittance, but to get along are you asking me to bring blinders, ear plugs and a button for my lip?

 

Mychal, theres always gonna be people at gatherings that are like, "I have a problem with blah blah blah" Just hug em.

 

Chrystaleyez, you are right in a way. And PoorPhucker, you are very, very right in a way. Earthmother, i also agree with, and the rest of you.
We should be able to be nice about being different, but at the same time, there are things that are just wrong. I am glad that the gatherings have such a good reputation with so many folks, but i know that takes a lot of work and attention, long before the yada yada.
But don't take my word for it. If you want to know what the gathering in colorado is really all about, go there in May. Stay till August. If you want i can send you there now.

 

Ah, I'm confused, I didn't realize that I was admonishing you in particular. I thought that PP was getting pretty carried away tho. No problem at all with questions....

Well, it HAS. And it IS. You are certainly allowed to ask. The part where nothing is accomplished has to do with when a group of people begin getting all worked up over the issue, which I've seen umpteen times, and the disput solves nothing, because the whole thing is a matter of opinion only, and no matter what anyones opinion is, there will still be a trade circle, so the arguement just becomes redundant after a while.

And I believe that you are. You are learning that we are all different, we all have our own ideas and views, some of us are easier to get along with than others.

There are as many different answers as there are people on the forum...

You have been told rightly on all counts. But this barely scratches the surface of what a gathering is "all about". It is all about the people who come, and what they do, what they believe, who they are. And the fact that ALL are accepted without prejudice.

Heavens no, no one else does! To get along, be your kind self. You will ultimately get out of the gathering only what you as an individual are conciously or unconciously willing to percieve.

 

Thank you again, everyone, for your advice.


Here's what I have learned.

The issue of trade circle at the gatherings is one that some people have strong opinions about, strong enough to easily lead to insult.

I learned that if I bring items to trade some brother will inevitably be insulted and tell me I'm wrong in doing it, or that I'm going about it in the wrong way.
If I ask for an explanation on the principles that guide such an opinion, I will be patronized. I may be told to hug somebody, I may be told the gathering is about more than trading, I may be told a wonderful story about sharing, but I won't be offered a chance at analysis of one brothers beliefs.
I learned that even if the discussion at that point is civil, a second person will come into the conversation, and a third and a forth, and one will tell me that this conversation had been hashed out before by others, the other that my questions are futile, and yet another that my questions are provocative and I would do better to hug someone. And everything they tell me will be true.

But what will I have learned that I don't all ready know?
I will have learned that if I criticize a brother, then I need not explain myself other than to say that's the way it is, or that's the way I feel.
And If the person I criticize tries to extract some meaning from my admission, then several folks will appear as if to distill any ill feelings before they happen.

I learned that, on principle, it's okay to ask a question, but rather than receive an answer, I should be expected to be told that I am learning that people are different, and everybody is accepted without prejudice and therefore we do not question their motives.

However If I wish to criticize another, well, everybody does that!

 

mychal, another thing that you could think about doing at gatherings is really focus on enjoying the drum circles at night and forget about trading and "everything it stands for" untill farther down the proverbial road... when you are sitting, dancing or drumming around the huge roaring bonfires at night, surrounded by friends, everybody is equal, everything is in-the-moment, and the moment is mystical. The Fire will transport you to a primitive place in your heart and the rythym of the drums will heal you. It's just that simple. Opinion doesn't carry much weight there. Words are gone! It's like kissing a mouse on it's tummy. Wonderful!

 

People are different of course, but funny how when I am at a gathering, I find that alot of the differences are meaningless.

Mud?

I can tell you the mud is black.

Another can tell you the mud is brown.

I bet people in Arkansas will be insulted and say that it is red clay... not mud.

We would all have different discriptions of mud.

Some will say that it has more dirt than water.

Others will say that it has more water than dirt.

The of course, you will have the people that will come along and say "WTF PEOPLE! IT'S JUST MUD!"

EVERYONE IS RIGHT!

Not to mention that every mud puddle is different.

East coast mud puddles might be thicker puddles than west coast.

And so forth.

Rainbow gatherings mean many different things to many different people.

I have my own opinions that have formed. Others have thier own opinions. Even someone that has opionion's similiar to another, might have gained thier insights in an whole different way.

In all reality now, I only want to find out your opinion, later on, after you have rolled around in the mud for a bit!

I really really want to comment on your last post, but I think I will just go puff a spliff instead

Az

PS. Mychal.... did you know that Rainbow has a huge carpet where they sweep all the dirt from the gathering under it, to hide it? The thing has quite a bulge underneath it. It even seeps out from under the carpet at the edges, every once and awhile! Most people like to just sweep the dirt back under the carpet when that happens. Of course once in awile it rains. Some of that dirt becomes mud for a bit. Hard to sweep mud back under the carpet. Eventually the mud will dry and back under the carpet it will go.... untill the next time it rains. Some people have never seen this carpet. Others choose not to see it. Some get a bit dirty from walking around it so much and well others.... they sleep on that carpet!

If I ever had to vote for an unofficial rainbow motto that I have heard the most, I would vote for "We will deal with it later!"

It seems that has been the motto for 20 some odd years and that later has now come knocking on rainbow's door... on many different things. It sure has been raining for the past few years Maybe the rain will wash away all the signatures on those pieces of paper that people like, instead of people just covering them with mud!


WONDER WHAT THE WORLD WOULD BE LIKE WITHOUT OPINIONS?

 

That was beautiful Phucker! Thank YOu!

But I have to say this~

Dirt--you find that under your fingernails

Earth is what mixes with the water..and is the creation of all things!

I love the Earth.

Just the facts dude!

Hey smoke one for me! Lucky Phucker!

 

Mud and dirt and earth, I guess we are wallowing in it.
EVERYONE IS RIGHT!

I love you all!
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Many folks in this thread have offered a simple opinion, like "I like trade, it's fun." or "it's okay, it's tribal." Those are rather black & white opinions; I haven't questioned it.

Others have said, "this kind of trade is okay, that kind is not." That's a grey area. Yes you may live in that grey area and hold what ever opinions you wish and pass judgments. I respect that. Folks like earthmama and rastapatch and poorphucker strike me as enlightened people who are wise and have considered their own opinions before they have arrived there. That is where the nugget of their wisdom lies.

I have yet to argue that anyone who has posted in this thread should change their opinion on the matter. Please give me the benefit of the doubt, I had no intention of swaying an opinion. I know full well the variety of the rainbow. I respect the diverse opinions. Taking the time to examine and learn those opinions should not be considered an affront or argumentative. Because others have been argumentative in the past, I understand why you would make assumptions about me. But please, allow me to debate this issue into the ground if I need to. It's my turn. And if I do become argumentative, or crazy or insulting, do let me know. But don't be sermonic, let me know after I have sinned not before.



Dispensing platitudes and bromides is not sharing wisdom, well not in a way so that another can learn from it. It's condescending. Explaining how you arrived at your decisions -that is sharing your nugget of knowledge. And that's what I have been asking for. So please, don't be greedy with your wisdom.



Let me paraphrase my questions asking for the wisdom I've been after about the grey areas:

1) You admonish certain items (cigarettes and candy) because they're brought to the gathering to use as a form of currency. But aren't all the things, services and hand made goods (not to mention "whatnots that people acquire throughout their travels"), don't these things become a form of currency when they are traded? Especially if that's why you bring those items? (how do you differentiate from healthy trade items and poor? is it objective or subjective?)

2) Why is it different trading with someone who happens to be in your camp but it is tawdry to trade with any other bother or sister at trade circle?

3) You mentioned the idea of what the trade circle was intended for. What was the intention? (Or what do you believe it was or should have been?)

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Other points I wish to make on the thread so far.

1) The one opinion I did state is that it's "all commerce, whether you call it a sale, or trade, or even, or fun or whatever. That leaves the type of commerce which is socially acceptable at a gathering up for interpretation and justification." I don't expect anyone else to agree with me or convert.

2) I didn't think this was a heated debate. I thought the heat had been given a chance to cool down. And we were almost at the brink of constructive criticism.

8) And yes my little butterfly, Keanua Otter, you are learning what true wisdom and knowledge is. I believe that one day when you are sitting, dancing or drumming around the huge roaring bonfires at night, the fire will transport you to a primitive place in your heart and the rythym of the drums will heal you and you will then learn how to share that wisdom and knowledge.

9) poorphucker, you are hilarious. I'll remember to bring my broom to the gathering, I'm sure to stumble across the carpet you talk about.

10) I know that everybody is different, it's something I have been acutely aware of since a very young age. It's condescending to suggest I'm just now learning that. And I know that the Rainbow Gathering is varied, diverse and wondrous, and that Trade Circle is a tiny, insignificant part of it. But for gosh sakes, quit reminding me and allow me this one chance to investigate this one thing before I decide to move on to other things, like going into my backyard to practice drumming around a campfire. (And you don't have to remind me that the gathering is about more than drumming around a campfire; and please forgive me if I come back here and ask what is the best type of drum and that sets off a whole other debate that has been hashed out before. You know, if you want to open the gathering up to new people, you're going to have to learn to tolerate a little repetition of things that aren't covered in the raps)

 

Mychal, Forgive me if my comment about *enjoying the drum circles whenever you get to a gathering* sounded incredibly trite or simpleminded. i wrote the drumming comment out of kindness, and because i am trying to think positive happy thoughts about the gathering that i am getting ready to leave for in a few days.For me, i am much more into drumming than trading and the comment just slipped out! But drum circles are about the closests thing to heaven and i wish you could experience it..
I must share with you I feel really bad about some of the things that have been said about me in this thread. I am sorry i think i coined the phrase "gathering nazi", But it seemed to fit. Sorry that I wasn't paying enough attention to the spirit of poorphuckers original rant and then before i knew it he was crucifying me and i just got scared and hurt and felt totally cyberviolated. It's been too painful to really discuss! and sorry that others have thought i was referring to them, when i made the Canada remark. It was a psychic vibe that i guesss touched a serious nerve. Ouch!
But, truth be told, I am a simple woman. An OLD woman!!! but i do have some redeeming qualities...f you go check out my gallery and really look at me and my pics of my family and friends 'n things, you could see that i am not all that bad!
I would love to write a post defending my own honor, but i am too old and tired. Perhaps the upcoming drum circles will revive me. Untill, many blessings and much love, otter

 

Just wanted to come in and just let everyone know a little something about Keanua Otter. She is a powerful, amazing, beautiful, incredibly intelligent and spiritually enlightened individual, as well as being an awesome, loving, wise and caring mother (to me, actually. And that's MY naked jackalope art in her sig, just FYI!!). I can't believe no-one is calling poorphucker on his completely outrageous, uncalled-for behavior. She made a few lighthearted comments voicing her opinion on people who make such a big deal out of these things, and WHAM!!! Four paragraphs slamming her, her opinions, and making derogatory comments about her parenting skills. GAWD. What an angry person you are! And if you have an issue with my art, you can take it up with me, thanks.

I hope all of you people have a wonderful, thrilling, enlightening time at the Gathering, and I wish I was going. Sorry to go so off-topic, but this whole thing has really stressed her out and I had to come in and speak up in her defense!!

 

I never thought you were a bad or mean person.

I can say I too am tired, maybe not as tired as you, but at least as old. And I can say I felt slighted after being called "little grasshopper". Then after several comments from different posters which seemed to suggest that (because I was new at hip forums or new at rainbow?), that I was somehow spiritually underdeveloped, I began to wonder if I needed a post defending my own honor. I have been working on my spiritual connection to the world, I just haven't been doing it with the Rainbow Family, but I believe that is what brought me here, closer to home, so I can share the message of my journey with you.

This forum is a good place to do that; and what's nice about this medium is that we can retract our statements and move on. You are a kind heart for doing that. Thank you.

p.s. I have seen your album, you have a wonderful portfolio and family, and every right to be proud.

p.p.s. I was composing the above as you were writing your post, Terzabine. so this p.p.s. is an edit add on. You are right that the comments about your art, Canada etc. was totally uncalled for, but it looked like your mum was holding her own.

She is lucky to have a talented and dedicated daughter like you. I hope things look better for all of us tomorrow. And thank you, maybe this thread will be able to resume.

 

thanks mychal, kelly sweetheart. Big hugs to both of you.
ps. mychal, *welcome home*.

 

I'm gonna bring Snickers bars to Ocala and then give them to 'Shut Up and Eat It'. They will turn them into deep-fried zu-zu's and serve them to everybody who stops by. Deep fried snickers bars in the woods, Fuck Yeah!
Also, one way to discourage both the use of tobacco as currency and the tendancy of people to 'bum smokes' is to bring tobacco and give it to 'Nick at Nite'. They will distribute tobacco, without charge, to anyone at anytime.

 

lol

 

Zuuuzuuuu's!
lovin you all!

 

Mychal, i don't want to take up a bunch of space here getting so far off topic with this, but i do thank you for your kind, insightful thoughts.
Before we leave for Ocala, i want to close my strange participation with this most interesting thread, dust my rainbow otter self off a bit and share some ideas regarding "observing the the tenents" (whatever they may be, and i say that with all due respect)) of the *rainbow consciousness*....when i get back from the gathering, hopefully this thread will still be goin' strong.
But i do want you all to know that in spite of my previous brash or indifferent reactions to some anti-chocolate and cigs rants (!) etc. ironically, i certainly and most assuredly share every caring rainbow brother & sisters concerns about keeping the gathering pure, etc, babylon out, etc. trading in the right spirit, protecting Nature and each other... serious issues have been brought forth: this Cause, and worldlifestyle movement of healing called the Rainbow Family. What is it really, socially and environmentally...and how can we all protect it and make it better. My mind is open to learning all that i can about The Rainbow Family Of Living Light, my loving adopted tribe. I say this with utmost repect and sincerity. I will try to be much more mindful of how i come across sometimes in this forum. As an youthful, yet aging otter, i can be cranky and sassy.

In the meantime, i have decided not to bring any chocolate (to share, sigh,)to this gathering in consideration of some of the opinions from this thread!!! Hopefully, this will come as a relief to some.( i do however reserve my right to change my mind about this!) (oh, ok, i will still have my private stash if ya really need some! ) I will be bringing my animal medicine cards for y'all (pure magick) and all manner of pyschic readings, and lots of hugs!
Thank you all for having patience with my flaws, age, wierdness, playfulness, and insecurities. Sorry for everything...
Lovin' you, everybelly & See ya in Ocala
ps. *nic at nite* rocks! (sorry!)

 

mychal, i think i have felt the same way as you before.

People who say we shouldn't try to talk things out because they can't be finished. Then they say, 'just talk about love', or 'trust good', as if somehow we will all agree just what love, or good is about.
I myself have changed my mind before, and like talking to smart folks about contentious things. It helps me learn, and change my mind. And i also don't need the answer 'everybody is different'. That answer doesn't answer anything.
I mean, there are things that are right/wrong, aren't there? It is wrong to steal? and to shit in the middle of the trail? It is right to help with the work? and listen before anger?

When i said commerce perhaps i should have used a better word. Or perhaps you could have heard me better. What i meant was:

If you have a closed system, and someone is working and someone else isn't that's not really fair. Folks whobring chocolate, but then want fed.....? I am not claiming a chocolate is a big problem, so i also don't need anybody calling me a candy hater. I am speaking of PROFITING at the gathering.
You will know who i am talking about. Not the blissers that don't know what tragedy is, they are for the massage blanket, and i wouldn't have it any other way. I am talking about those who bring JUNK, and trade 'up' at the gathering. They trade the majority of their time, and leave with a years worth of profit.
I have known folks who plan to not work for months, because they traded smokes for handmade pipes, and jewelry and such.

Now this is where usually someone tells us (as if we didn't know) that folks can do what they want, but that's not true. There are many things that folks can't do.
Isn't it ironic that if person 'x' likes the law against carthieves he will give thanks for cops, but if he doesn't like marijuana laws he will talk down on the same set of laws. When you ask of this he will say the law is unjust, but will later say 'you can't tell folks what to do'.
Of course we can tell folks what to do, it's called parenting, and/or peerpressure. In rainbow they call it consensus, or counsel. Those that don't like a consensus should give the benefit of a doubt, and either call a circle or go along with consensus.

And of course there is my standard rant. . . . Folks shouldn't show up on the 1st of july and have a big opinion of themselves. If you didn't make the rainbow gathering happen, perhaps you ought to listen to those without who it wouldn't have happened.
I would write more, but my post is too long already.
namaste' #

ps: dude, if you get to colorado, ask around for me. I wont be hard to find. I will be right in the middle.

 

the only thing that bugs us about trade circle is the folks who try to 'profit' from their trade goods....and it's not just chocolate & tobacco that make up that part of the trade scene. Trade 'profiteering' is a state of the trader's mind, not an item specific thing. on the rare occations that we sit in trade circle, we like to do either a 'take something/leave something' blanket where you can trade almost anything for what's on the blanket or a fun 'themed trade' like when we traded lighters for anything that would light (tobacco, candles, inscents, whatever...). Of course we're the type of folks that if we have something you really need (like flashlight batteries) we're likely to give it to you...no trade needed.