Rainbow question

beautiful words. sorry honeysuckleblue

 

Thank you SucculentFlower, for attempting to addressing my post. My questions are in ernest. I wonder if your answers were as straight forward because I feel like I am discussing this with the Cheshire Cat. Maybe if I eat some more shrooms.....

Ppl have voiced very strong opinions for and against trade at the gathering. With quite a bit of ambiguity. I was hoping that I could find a clear opinion from some of these ppl.

I didn't want to fox anyone into a debate, that's why I presented the hypothetical questions. Each scenario illustrates a quandary to me. That's why they are hypothetical. Forgive me for not being more clear about that. In the context of my hypothetical questions, I was trying to reason the following:

Why isn't a skill like car repair looked at the same as palmistry at a gathering? If I can sit at a blanket an trade a palm reading, why not sit at a blanket and trade auto repair.

Why is buying crystals to bring to a gathering okay, but candy bars is not? I consider crystals City Goods.

And lastly, rastapatch seemed to be admonishing trading, then offered that it would be okay to trade in your camp. As if the folks who pitched their tent next to you were somehow more family than anyone else at the gathering. (I didn't want to say this, but I was hoping he would elaborate on that point which he clearly was trying to avoid)

Please allow me to state emphatically that I do not nor did I ever intend to charge for any services rendered at the gathering. And I never suggested that I would.

My point is
1) people do charge for services in babylon.
2) Isn't trading for those same services at a gathering the same as charging cash?
-if not please explain how you feel it is different.

Quite frankly, this whole discussion on trade has left the sense of a very sour taste of judgmental attitudes to my mind and so, I was hoping that folks would be able to clarify or consider their opinions on the matter.

 

Don't worry about anything. Just go. You'll have fun.

Tradings cool cause its like going back to the old ways before money existed. It's something to do in between cooking and digging shitters and swimming and meditating and dancing and oming. It doesn't need to be overthought about .

I tye-dyed a bunch of slips for trade at the Mexcio gathering I'm going to. The girls 'll love em, hopefully the boys too. Its fun to make things and give em or trade em. If you wanna trade, trade. If you don't wanna trade, don't trade. Lotsa love for my family.

 

Sweet Brother/Sister Mychal~

my answers are in ernest. I love you and am trying to be as clear as possible. Am I a cheshire cat? No. I'm a human being trying to communicate my experience of Rainbow as best I can. Please excuse me if I fall short.

Please help me understand the comment about the Mushrooms?

Also, it's okay for people to voice very strong opinions, you'll get a lot of strong people making the National happen. There also a lot of bliss- bows, and they are loved too.

Lighten up. The fact is, that's why it's called RAINBOW ~ there just isn't ONE way, it's a RAINBOW of love, it's a RAINBOW of people, it's a RAINBOW of movies, all coming together around the prayer pole ~ OMMMMMMMMMMM!!

Clarity is in your filter. I'm sure that skilled car repair is and can be traded. My husband, Grasshopper is a very skilled car repair person. He can pretty much work on anything. Now he's not here at the present moment, but I bet if a Master Chess Player needed a hand with his/her vehicle, he'd trade. And enjoy it! Just my imagination running wild.

The comparison of crystal to candy bars (to me) is that ~ I love my Brothers and Sisters. Some of them smoke, some of them hurt themselves in other ways- i.e. candy bars.

Really I know it's a hedonism thing (we love pleasure), sometimes lighthearted, sometimes not.

But because I respect them also, I witness the suffering and move myself and my child out of the way of the secondhand smoke.

Crystals (not man-made) are used by Rainbows for many reasons. I'm interested as to why you consider crystals a "city goods"??

Rastapatch is beautiful, he was being conscious of the imbalance of the trade circle, I really appreciate his consciousness. That's one of the reasons I stood up and stated my preferences regarding trading. But that just my flavor.

The rules (rules?) are at Maingate. I think those raps can be found at the welcomhome (dot) org site. Regarding personal responsibility and the "do's and don'ts"..

My point is ~
1- Family do not charge for services at the Gathering.~ donations to the Magic Hat are appreciated.
2-We do not consider trading the same energy as green energy. ~I believe I've stated enough examples for that point.


I apologize for your filter being clogged ~ and please exuse me for my clogged filter.

Loving Youuuuuuuuu!

 

I love You All.......

 

Exactly that !!

 

ok ^^^ that made up my mind

i'm going to stop in FL!

cya there!

 

Does it give you satisfaction to call others Nazis? I guess that you have given everyone a little bit of insight about yourself. You speak such kind words in one post and call names in another. Hard to believe you are an adult of 50 and not an immature little one. Where I come from, that is called a hippycrit.

I call others things when I intend to hurt. I suspect that is what you have been attempting. I have been called every deragotory Rainbow name that has ever been said. Want to learn some interesting new terms?

What, so I am non status, and have a Canadian wife and son. I decided to leave th USSA. Is that an insult to you? Are you one of those flag bearing patriotic hippies happy the boys and girls are dying in Iraq? I served in the first Gulf War and have many reasons to hate your government. By the way, not that I have to explain myself to you, we are in the process of me getting my Canadian citizenship now. I am far from illegal! Awwwww... does that take away from some of your insulting and attempting to pawn me off as a criminal? Pretty pathetic jab!

American gatherings? You are absolutley correct! I never learned anything from the 4 American Nationals and 20 regionals I once gratefully attended. My last American gathering was the Prineville National. I decided then and there, that Rainbow was changing to something I did not like. I could definitely see the fork in Rainbow Road. I decided to make my next gathering the one in Tofino BC. EXCUSE THE FUCK OUT OF ME IF I LIKE IT BETTER UP HERE! It sure the hell gets me away from people like you!

Who cares if I am not in America. Besides you. Though some would say I am not "Rainbow"... others would beg to differ.I feel that I have been to enough gatherings to have formed an opinion. And, I speak my opinion. Isn't life groovy the way it works Marcia Brady!

When I speak of the trade circles. This is based on hundreds. I have seen them at thier best and thier worst.

Little story..... on the way from a Cumberland gathering going to the National in Taos, me and others were arrested in South Texas for peyote buttons. We spent ten days in jail including the 4th of July. We got out on an illegal search and seizure. After fighting to get our bus back, we hauled ass to the gathering. We had stopped in Hot Springs Ak on the way from Ky and raided a government quartz mine at 2am. We had so many crystals, crystals we liberated from being made in to circuitry chips, (hundreds of them). One the size of a 2 year old child.. which we left in the sand at the ocean on Padre Island in Texas. Our bus was sagging. We felt we were arrested for peyote becasue of karma for the peyote picking. More raping than liberating. So, we decided to take all our xtals down to the trading circus. That place was so negative, that we traded only a few..... then got really stoned (having been in jail for 10 days) and proceeded to give away hundreds of crystals the size of our fists. Some of them were as long as forearms. I am sure many people still have those crystals. Most of them were flawless. The funny thing is, we would sit there and try to give the crystals away...and people were trying to force money upon us and other things... for crystals that we were giving away damnit!

THAT was the year that trade circle really stood out to me as becoming something more than what it was intended for. I saw so many other people try to trade the cystals we gave away... immediately. I later saw "kidz" trying to sell them in Taos. Meanwhile, our bus was broken into and all our headie personal crystals were stolen! They did not leave one fucking crystal in the bus! Me and the sister I was with, left that gathering without one crystal that we had came with. I thought that was the end of it. But, I even saw one sister sell one of the crystals that was stolen.... on Venice beach for 500 dollars. Fuck...... people are pitiful sometimes. The sad thing is, these crystals were liberated from the ground by us personally. There was never one single cent of value ever placed on them..... untill others chose to put values on them. And alot of them looked at the crystals ... as what they could make off of them. I have not been to a trading circle since. I do have to admit though.... I get a kick out of seeing forest employees tradin patches, hats and shirts for tie dies and what not.

It ALWAYS bothered me to see people trading things that were considered nothing more than "monetary" transactions.

At the end of the gathering , there was only one kitchen feeding clean up. (name witheld) Me and another sister used a bus to haul out hundreds of bags of trash. When we were done and went to get a meal...we were REFUSED because "we were too clean and the kitchen was for cleanup only"... we left.

So yeah... maybe I am bias towards trading circles after that gathering.

Let me stress... trade and barter is very important!


I think the trading circle is a great thing.

However, as I am sure many have figured out. I am against the tobacco and chocolate being traded. I am against people telling others to go out of thier way, to bring these things specifically for trading circle. Sure, bring them...and kick them the fuck down to a kitchen or something. Then it gets shared and prevents the need of it being traded in a circle as a currency.

To put it plain in simple. These items are bought to bring to the gathering to use as a form of currency. That is not right in my eyes. It goes against what alot of people think Rainbow stands out against.

I keep reading people saying that they bring these things to GIVE OUT! What do others not understand about what I say? I have no problem with giving these things out at a gathering... sharing is wonderful. I am not against them being at the gathering..... pfffttttt

Skills are higly valued in trade and bartering. But, in all reality, a mechanic is not going to sit all day at trading circle with a sign, though I have seen some do it. I have traded for others to help work on many of my buses. You usually know who the mechanics are and what not.

Since I disagree with the candy bars.... let me give my input. Buying crystals to bring to a gathering is wrong also in my eyes. Buying ANYTHING to use as a form of currency at a gathering is wrong in my eyes also. If people want the mass packaged trinkets and what not.... go buy them yourself away from the gathering. I reccomend to others not to encourage these acts by trading with individuals that do so. It also gives a bit of an insight of one of the reasons they have gone to the gathering...after all they did go out of thier way to buy the things planning on bringing them to the gathering!

I remeber the days when the circles were packed with hand made goods that alot of kind brothers and sisters have put alot of time and effort into. And of course... all the whatnots that people aquire throughout thier travels.

Skills and services are something that one has knowledge and experinces with... and not a trinket that is bought. NOT EVERYONE can go out and buy that skill asap. Sure they can spend money on the service... but do not learn it itself, immediately.

Mychal, are you familiar with LETS? (Local Economic Trading System)?

It is a great example of how a service or skill can be traded or bartered... and just how much they are honored and respected in the trade and barter world !

Mad? Lol.... not at all. Sure, I can be a jerk, but I know that I am a good person! I have said many horrible things in my time on the net... but I am getting better at not doing so! You would be surprised at how many times I have to delete something I have written after... rereading it!

You gonna be back up for the Quebec gathering? I personally, can't wait till it is time to go!


Az

 

Yeah, Phucker I might be there. I'm contemplating whether to start school in Victoria in the fall or winter. If its in the winter i'll be there for sure.

That was a sad story you told about the crystals....

 

P.P.
Get out of my face. Understood? You said you were through with this thread. Now prove it.

 

Glad you got some satisfaction out of your pathetic insults

Glad you are able to judge an individual by words!

More power to you cosmic sister bear!

You can continue your insults if you like, but why feed into what you desire?

Sure, I could respond to any further hateful responses by you, with my own hateful inciteful remarks, but you are too easily flustered for me to even get a good laugh out of!

Thats not what this forum is here for it, now is it? You are 20 years my senior... so I am sure you agree.

The best advice I can give you,

If you don't like what I have to say...
DON"T READ MY POSTS!!!

To make it even more simple for someone that might have a hard time understanding it....

1. Go HERE (no...it's not a link to a picture of hell!)
2. Look to the right for the words "Ignore List"
3. Type the word "poorphucker" into one of the boxes
4. Click on the button that says "Update Ignore List"
5. Get on with your cosmic life and act as if I do not exist


I enjoy this forum just as much as you do!

Sometimes, it is easier to agree to disagree!

Az

 

Please everybody, I hope we can set aside the insults.

SucculentFlower, Mushrooms are what Alice ate before her talk to the Cheshire Cat, who spoke in riddles. I was trying to make fun of my own befuddlement.

Phucker you mentioned the idea of what the trade circle was intended for. What was the intention?

You admonish certain items (cigarettes and candy) because they're bought to the gathering to use as a form of currency. But aren't all things traded, services and hand made goods (not to mention "whatnots that people aquire throughout thier travels.") aren't these things also a from of currency when they are traded? Especially if that's why you bring those items?

To be honest, I am not going to bring anything for trade. But saying that some items are okay to barter and others are not confuses me. I know the difference between a candy bar and a hemp bracelet that somebody made, but when those things are intended for trade, they aren't that much different.

If our purpose is to commune and pray, and trading candy is antithetical, then I don't see how trading crafts suits that purpose either.

 

Hey mychal, thanks for your careful attentions to this important subject.
It is vital to realize the rainbow gathering is different than other things, just as each thing is different. It is not up to the new and unlearned to define these things but to learn them. If the new ones want new things they can make them, but the things of the elders deserve respect, not manhandling. If the new ones want to drink liquor and fuck in public, and waste money, i think they do all that at buning man. Or they can pass out their own flyers and throw their party where they want. They do not have to ruin the lifes work of those that spend their time making a rainbow gathering.

I tell you now. the gathering does not happen by accident, nor because some folks who want to bring chocolate to the woods to trade for beer happen to get there on july 1st. If you want to really see what a gathering is about, go on the 15th of june, and watch the folks who have given an entire year of their lives so you could wonder about these things. Not ocala, not this computer. Rastafari.
As for trading, and what i said about "go ahead and do it". I meant you can trade fairly to someone you meet for fun. The folks who trade candy and cigs at the trade circle do it for profit. They do it to avoid work, and to look cool when they get neat clothes.
Last year in cali i wanted cool hippie clothes. I was carrying in a box of vegetables, it was a two mile walk with a thirty pound box. I had to walk right past trade circle. I had been doing it all week. When i got to the kitchen, i stopped and said, "i was hoping to get some cool hippie clothes at this gathering. Folks who had seen me working stood up, and went to their tents, and brought me some cool hippie clothes. Just like that. I went back up the hill, past trade circle, and got another box of veggies.
The whole way up and down the hill i am known at every camp. I stop for breath, and someone brings me lemonade. Heck, i dont have to stop. Folks call me, "hey rasta, put down the box. Play us a song and we will smoke".
If you have something you would like, and things you dont need, dont go to the moneychangers temple. Just place the things you will trade on a blanket right in front of your tent, and have fun meeting folks and seeing their stuff.
I have run trade blankets without even being there. Just put out some stuff, and a sign, and come back later and see what you got!

Basically, trade is even. If it isn't even it's called commerce, and commerce is not what the gathering is about. No matter how many teenage hotties want nugs.

did that help any? namaste' #

 

we have a few things that are tradeables,and if by chance im wanting a snickers,or a smoke or nugs,then it will be a good trade, but I doubt it will be at trade circle

 

Mychal

Ok...I will try another route since it is not understood what an opinion is.

Bring whatever you want to a gathering. (if you are not good at reading sarcasm.... then quit now )

SARCASM ON

Stand at the middle of the circle with a sign that says you are selling your body if that is what you want to do. Afterall, Prostitution is a skill and absolultely valued and needed at the gathering!

Bring a whole bunch of crack rock and heroin, and lay it out on your blanket at the circle. Afterall, it is a damn worthy thing to bring to trade an barter at a gathering. Drugs are used as currency all the time.

Do not forget to bring extra syringes, as there is a high demand for them at a gathering.

Break a leg? You can always use the CALM bicycle ambulance! Too bumby? You can always get the more valued Rainbow Ambulance Brigade and have 6 brothers carry you on a stretcher with out a bump! Of course you will be slapped with a bill in the mail for the services and will owe them 1000 community hours.

Got any firearms? BRING THEM! They have multiple uses at a gathering. You can shoot the stray dogs, protect yourself from A-Camp, and show that you are proud to bare arms. Make sure you bring extra ammunition to trade and barter at the circle! There is a full line of targets you can trade for.

I heard about the stolen car heading to the gathering, hopefully they will show up with a whole bunch of stolen goods to trade at trading cricle, as they are just items

Hell, might as well trade and barter the stolen vehicle.... afterall, possesion is 9/10's of the law, they say?

On your way, do not forget the fireworks.... after all, the National takes place on the 4th of July! I am sure many people will want them in the trading circle.

Don't forget to look for all the child porn that is available and encouraged to be brought and traded at the trading circle.

That pesky rainbow sister won't leave you alone after spending the night with her? Look around at trading circle and I am sure you can find a hitman sitting around, waiting to off someone and bury them in a shitter with a layer of lime. He has every right to sell his goods too.

Want a new transmission..... look in the automotive aisle of the trading circle right next to the gas pumps! It is right down from the soda fountain on the other side of the movie theaters. It is nestled right in next to the photography booth!

Only got money... I am sure you can find a currency trader that will trade you some clam shells for your cash.... then you can trade and barter away.

I heard that this year, someone will be setting up a full blown carnival on generators. They will be trading those little paper tickets so people can enjoy the rides in the forest! They are even brining an extra uhaul to haul off thier newly aquired trades. You can even win a giant stuffed green ape!

For anyone having problems seeing in the dark at night, there will be a flash light trader. He comes every year with 420 flash lights and leaves with a huge sack of candy, smokes, and clothes! He even traded for a blow job from some nice kind sister who was sick of tripping on things, walking the trails at night!

Most of all...don't forget the cold beer and wine store right in the middle of the circle!

OH....and don't forget to look for the vendor trading rainbow gathering videos! I hear he has some good titles such as The Sisters of Rainbow, Rainbow Sisters Gone Wild, The Breasts of Rainbow, and The Rainbow Orgy series... seasons 1- 5!


SARCASM OFF


If one were to stop of at a Cosco and load up a bus, packed with candy, chips, soda, lighters, toilet paper and cartons of smokes, and show up at a gathering, and proceed to haul 100 wheel barrels of the items to the trading circle to open up shop... it would make alot of people unhappy and I could see a council being formed to address the person. Let them form!

People can bring whatever they want to trade circle. That has been made clear by others! When it comes down to it... They are right! Rainbow has no say... only the individual people that decide to go and camp at these functions, can decide what they want to bring! It is no one's business to tell them otherwise, or suggest, or even offer opinions!

People can have whatever opinions they want on what should and should not be brought!

Rainbow councils stating otherwise mean nothing! Even if they were to have one!

WHY?

What right do these people have to form a council and decide that another American is not allowed in a public national forest, that they have every right to be in? Or what they are allowed to do and not do. What if the person does not want to leave? I have seen "rainbow" beat people out of gatherings becasue a council say they need to go. NOT EVERYONE would let that happen to them


On a lighter note..... I just heard that a mailwoman went "postal"?

I have oftem wondered what would happen if some disgruntled Rainbow ever went "postal" at a gathering, when confronted by a mob!

Of course, that would never happen... as the rainbow gatherings are the most peaceful places on Earth!


Are you really attempting to understand and comprehend.... or just trying to sir up the pot a little bit

Rastapatch has made a damn good post! Reread it!

Az

 

Yes poorphucker, I am attempting to understand and comprehend. But even if I weren't, do my provocative questions merit an answer? We learn more from the fox than the sheep. And besides, I may not be alone in this question.

But believe me, I don't intend to stir the pot -I just have a habit of doing that when all I want is information. Please excuse my boldness. I see a discrepancy and I want to find the meaning hidden there. Perhaps there is no discrepancy, and it's only myself who's confused. If that's the case, please show your kindness so that I can see the light. Are you really trying to explain and share your knowledge, or are you acting smug and ridiculing me? I would like to believe that you are trying to find the words that best describe your opinion and open me to understanding.

Thank you, rastapatch, for the validation of my desire to learn from the folks who's life's work make the gathering happen.

It seems to me that to keep the peace, compromises have been made that allow trade of this and that. I am okay with that. I can understand that. I'm not a bore. I'm not against trade. But I don't want to put words in your mouth, that isn't how you learn a thing. And to keep peace of mind, people will always find a justification; I wish to learn that, too.

It is fun to trade. You've left things outside your tent unattended for folks to barter using their conscience as a guide. Believe it or not I'd thought of doing exactly that with my own art work, making postcard sized works that folks could mail or keep for their own. (people have placed great value on my art) But that doesn't feel right to me now.

The question as you put it is about commerce. I don't want to get into semantics, but commerce does not dictate that the exchange of money for goods is unfair, or inherently unfair. Likewise a trade can be outrageously unfair or uneven. I contend that anything that is not a gift is commerce. Whether you call it a sale, or trade, or even, or fun or whatever. That leaves the type of commerce which is socially acceptable at a gathering up for interpretation and justification.

As you said, the rainbow gathering is different than other things -the beauty of that is that it forces us to view things like green energy and trade and gifts in a different way.

Did that help any? Well yes, I will never tire of hearing the stories like the one you tell of people giving you cool hippy clothes for the asking.

I would very much like to come early and help and participate from the beginning. But I will not be coming to a gathering wanting any material thing. No insult intended, but I could not do that. I am not now in a peace of mind where I could place myself in that vulnerable of a situation. And besides, I'm not like that. I wasn't raised that way. I could never stand to be a drain. I could not sit back and watch you work without my own contribution. It's hard for me to refuse help when it's needed and even harder to ask for it.

 

The disagreement about trade circle comes by every now and again in various places. This is a pretty common disagreement. It is absolutely unnecessary to get a bad attitude over it tho. Trade makes the world go around. Every culture all thru history has relied on trade to get things they want or need. Either trading goods or money. Rainbow is a bit of an enigma. It is preached to the hilt that there should be no money changing in the temple, and that's a cool concept. But what do you suppose the magic hat is? How do you suppose that all the wonderful food you eat there is obtained? The gathering is a big place, I'm sure if there is something going on that you don't like you can go elsewhere and find something you do like. Continuing a heated debate about whether or not the trade circle is a good thing is much like jumping into a giant mud hole and getting stuck there. You could have avoided the mud hole altogether, but chose to jump in. Nothing is accomplished. Personally, I find the trade circle to be fun. Many people do. That does not make us all idiots. What I do find somewhat offensive is all the people who come there looking for handouts. The ones who don't have enough honour to realize it would maybe be a better thing if they had something to offer in exchange for their constant begging for tobacco, candybars, alcohol, or whatever. Unfortunately alot of folks show up with the idea that they will be handed anything they need by someone without having to do anything in return. I know this may sound shallow to some, but I would never think of begging handouts without at least working my ass off first, or doing or giving SOMETHING in trade. It's all great to feel like Rainbow should be some totally utopian thing that is so different from real life as to be unrecognizable, but as long as Rainbow includes HUMANS, then thee is no escaping human actions. So, if you come to the Rainbow with limits on what you will like and what you won't like, then you will leave with limits, and live with limits. Just so you know, I'm NOT talking about just accepting anything no matter how bad it is. There HAVE to be some limits to what we as a "disorganization" can accept, but these things would be so huge and important as to be agreed upon by most, not something as picky as whether or not it is alright to trade. But, some folks just post on forums to throw their weight around..............

 

To stretch the metaphor:

I am looking at this mud puddle, well the idea of it, and I hear folks say -stay away from the mud it's dirty, and other folks say but the mud is fun, discussing the mud is wrong and tedious, just come and enjoy it. If you feel you must discuss it -then walk around it.

Forgive me for walking a path that has been beaten down, but just the same, it's new to me. And I don't see how ignoring it enlightens me.

 

~Or you could have thanked EarthMother for her good energy. ~THANK YOU~ Earth Mother, I learned from your writings.

By the Way, THANK YOU TO EVERY ONE!~ phoorphucker, keanua otter, rastapatch, crystaleyez~ Ya'll are feeding my heartvibe, I miss ya! I'll be seenin' ya'll soon in Colorado ( well maybe not p.p., tho I totally appreciate YOu )

Hence forth, I'll shall stretch the Metaphor even FURTHER~

I love Mud, sometimes it makes me dirty, sometimes I stay away, sometimes the Mud is fun, sometimes the Mud not, sometimes I enjoy it, sometimes it is tedious.

But We like to discuss the Mud. And we may either walk through it, or around it, I've even heard of Folks levitating over it, or even Meditating through it into other Mud Puddle

My favorite is the CUDDLE PUDDLE~ we lovvvvvvve you!

P.s. this is NOT an attempt to ignore the Mud.

Just the facts Man....lol