Someone started a thread on the interesting subject of race and political views. They had found some video of political discussions involving right wingers that happened to be black people with the comment that he hadn’t seen this very often and that it was ‘What the left refuses to acknowledged’ (I think meaning that some black people have right wing view) * My own reaction to this was to ask why this was a thing. To me it doesn’t matter if the person expressing the right wing views is black, white or brown the arguments are the thing (and to me they just don’t seem to stand up well to scrutiny whoever says them). I often don’t know or don’t care what colour someone is here (unless it is relevant to the discussion) it’s what ideas they hold that is of interest to me. Now the thing I was trying to discover (before the thread was removed) was is this common in the US that some political leanings have become so associated with certain groups (racial groups) that they find it surprising to find that someone from one group, that they associate with one type of political viewpoint has actually opposing views? Ok I should say I’m not talking of say the KKK just normal mainstream neoliberalism and conservatism.
@Balbus It is a thing, but moreso in terms of "Democrat and Republican" rather than "Right vs. Left" or "conservative vs. liberal". I hope that helps. For the most part, I don't think that many people are typically aware of whether they harbor conservative or liberal political views, and most people probably find themselves to be moderates of their party. I find that the more I learn about politics, foreign policy, incarceration, etc. the more a liberal environment makes perfect sense to me. I know it's hard for some on this site, and in the world for that matter, to see why some of these things are important to protect, promote, and stand for. I guess I would invite them to learn more about some things it has become clear (to me at least) that they have a limited understanding of. I don't think that I'm right about everything. Nor do I know everything about, for example, foreign policy. But I'm trying...
I think there is race in the two parties. There is a reason why Republicans work so hard to highlight their voters who are not white. Simply put it's quite rare. If you are an American and black or Latin it's much more likely you will be a Democrat. This is very upsetting to the Republicans since if you only count on white votes it's hard to win elections. So they have worked very hard over the last decade to win this vote. They often fail because they still need to please the Trump voter who cares for white rights and does not like other races and religions. If you make the Mexican happy you have made the Trump voter unhappy. You have taken HIS country from him. Even before Trump there was a undercurrent of racism and white Christian rights only among the Republicans. Not every Republican is racist but every racist is a Republican. Their current president just shows what was always there. The historical fact they love to point out is the president during the Civil War was a Republican. To them this shows they were never racist how they can they be? When they say this it shows two things they are not educated on. The shift in party dynamics that occurred in the 1960's when racists flocked to the Republicans over the Civil Rights movement. Since then the party has catered to the extreme elements that are quite racist and the more moderate voters go along with them. They do since we only have 2 parties and there is a DEEP hate between them. So though you don't really agree with the party you refuse to be part of the other team. Also the fact that racial rights and slavery was not the cause of the Civil War. So to frame yourself as being on the right side of history then shows how little you know since neither party was concerned with black rights. The whites who were are the fringe hippies of their day saying save the whales. Society as whole did not care.
even if you said "every white supremacist is a republican" it still wouldn't be true, but at least a lot closer.
I don't know not a lot of KKK members vote for Obama or Clinton. "Every" is an extreme term though I admit.
The Democrats get more minorities, because they totally play off this whole "help the needy" thing. It's something they always harp on, and something I find totally phony about them, since when they're actually in office they do shit like Clinton's crime bill. I hope more minorities begin to realize that the Democratic establishment cares just as little about them as the Republicans do. It's not really because of their race, though. It's because they're poor. No one in this country likes poor people, and it sickens me that Democrats make such a pretense to having such big hearts when they join in with the Republicans moving inch-by-inch further right of center to pass laws that harm us all. One thing I have noticed is how many more police shootings of blacks there were under Obama than Trump. I guess because Trump has to operate under this guise of being an anti-establishment candidate, when Obama was strictly just a corporate oligarch at the reigns of power. As soon as the establishment takes control again (not that they don't have control now,) I'm sure the police oppression will be back in full force. And we'll all walk blissfully into the abyss.
This is precisely why they do not get the votes they seek now. The whole vibe of "you are stupid. If you were not so stupid you would see how stupid you are. SO come join us" (the party that says education is bad and you do not need it) The facts are wonderful progress is made on social issues with Demarcates. So the best defense is to say hey stupid nothing got done from Republicans even if they want nothing done. Only one party makes the slightest attempt at social welfare and voters see it. The nature of Republican philosophy does not tolerate helping others it is that person's responsibility to care of themselves and not be lazy not the states to tell me who to help with MY money. They also do not allow the idea of tax dollars being given to the goverment. So there can be no welfare.
you don't have to be a white person that hates black people to be racist. wasn't there just a famous incident where a group of black guys were shouting racial slurs at some white high school kids? i doubt those guys voted for trump.
Those Southern Democrats who switched to the GOP in the 60's are known as 'DixieCrats'. Just an FYI...
This is great thanks to everyone for a thoughtful debate. I’m going to give some of my thinking in a basic way so please don’t get at me for being too simplistic. This subject came up because someone seemed to be surprised that black people could have right leaning views. This is not surprising to me since theoretically this shouldn’t be about race but about class and education. It’s should be about policy. But it’s complicated because it not just about those things. Intellectually the lower classes should be more likely to vote for candidates of the left because left wing policies are more likely to improve their situation and a lot of young and educated people see the merits for the whole of society in left wing ideas vote that way. Now it’s known that Black households have traditionally had some of the lowest median incomes according to the US census so they are more likely in the US to vote Democrat. And according to the Pew Research Center 54 percent of college graduates either identified as Democrats or leaned Democratic, compared to 39 percent who identified or leaned Republican (I believe that is growing wider) It is the middle classes (especially the lower middle classes) that usually lean toward voting for the right, they are not independently rich but they do usually have something which mean they have something to protect something to loose, many are have small businesses and all of that makes them naturally cautious, conservative with a small c, they seem change as dangerous. Many do not have a college education*, They’re usually fans of law and order as they are not rich enough to protect themselves but as said they have things to protect. They have to keep an eye on the pennies and expect their government to do the same. They oppose bureaucracy because they often have to deal with it personally (it often doesn’t apply to those below and those above pay someone else to do it) They feel that since they have to ‘pay their way’ they look on welfare as ‘getting something for nothing’ They see taxation as money been taken from them to go to others. Many see social change as a zero sum game any gain for others is a loss for them. But the middle classes are great believers in education and so there is a chance their children will lean more to the left. * Right wing parties around the world traditionally targeted these people and build policy around them and claim that left wing ideas are opposed to their interest. The problem for the right wing in the US is that its embrace of neoliberalist ideas meant that a lot of its policies actually were detrimental to the middle class which has stagnated or shrunk** And one of those things effected by neoliberalism was social mobility. In a socially mobile society there would be some movement from the lower class to the middle, therefore some black people would become middle class and possibly change their political outlook. The reason its seems to me why there are so few black conservatives (to the point that it seems surprising to at least one right winger) is that social mobility is rather low in modern US society and that the black people that do rise into the middle class get there more through education. And this seems the same for many Latino voters as well. * So the right has a problem with the Republican party base been mainly made up of white, less well educated, older, middle class voters that in many cases are demographically in decline, they are also loosing women’s voters who find the party too male and its conservative attitudes toward women objectionable. And the thing is that this was acknowledged and understood by the Republican Party. In 2012 Reince Priebus the chairman of the Republican National Committee published a report that laid out the problems and recommended reaching out to ethnic groups and women***. The problem for them was that it was too little too late and anyway since they didn’t seem to be talking of ditching their neoliberal policies then I’m not even sure their outreach would have worked. So they got Trump who has just exacerbated the problems they already had. *A secret many small-business owners share with Mark Zuckerberg **Seven reasons to worry about the American middle class ***What You Need to Read in the RNC Election-Autopsy Report - The Atlantic
