Qurestion about church attenders and true Christians

I think the whole "true christian" and "fake christian" thing is a BS thing you guys made up so that the hypocracy of christians can be avoided as an issue, and to make you feel better about yourself. Seriously, if you believe in the christian god and jesus or whatever, you are a christian.

Whether you act like a loving god would want you to...that's a different issue altogether. You don't have to be a christian to be a good person. And if you're one of those to condemn those good people who don't believe in your god, well to hell with you. You should be condemning those who give your religion a bad name. But you don't, at least in any meaningful way, because they're convenient allies.

 

Show me.

Now I see where the problem is... you do not believe that the Bible is completely true... if you do not believe that.... why Believe any of it is true... because the Bible states itself that it is ALL true... Here is a good verse for you... if this is one you believe...

“For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths” (II Timothy 4:3-4).

 

I agree 100%... thanks!

 

Accepting God with their mouths but not their actions, eh? Kind of like someone reading and believing these words (the bible) but not actually living as such?

Yup.... how can you believe if you do not follow?

And why is one book true and another is not (yeah, you'll say prophesey, but who's to say if they were just WRITTEN to have been fulfilled? Your only source for the Bible's veracity is the Bible)?

Yes that is one way to look at it. The Bible is the ONLY religious text with 100% accuarcy in its prophecy. If they were written "to have been fulfilled" they would have to been extremely vague. That is not the case in regards to the Bible. If you ever get a chance to really study the prophecies on the Bible, you would discover how amazing these prophecies are. There are far more than I can ever explain. I only know a few examples, but I continue to study into them more.

No it is not the only the Bible... The Bible is also historically congruent and as time has past, history has revealed these prophecies up to this date to be true.

Why is one man's understanding right but another's is not? These books were, after all, written by men (like the apostles, Paul, etc). What makes them so reliable?

Like you have heard so many times. The Bible was "inspired" by god. Which in other words means although mere men wrote the Bible, God ultimately gave the thoughts to the men to perfectly write it. I am not an expert on this as well, but much information about the inspiration of the Bible can be found throughout the web if you are interested.

The Bible is the biggest idol ever invented by mankind. You won't ever say you worship it, but do you think God is defined by some ancient book? God's word and wisdom stops there? God is that small? Yeah right.

God never changes, what makes you think that His words will? Keep in mind that the Bible is like a timeline. It explains, why we are here, how we got here, and where we are going. From the beginning of time to the end the Bible has the answer.


(Now, I don't know you aside from your posts here, so I don't know how well you put your faith to practice. So read this not so much directed at you, JD4U, but more as a general post in regards to christians in general.)

Noted : )

 

By your definition yes... By Jesus' no.

 

I find that it is the "true christians" that are the most intolerant and bigoted. The sunday christians aren't the ones who freak out and disown family members who choose another spiritual path or belief system.They aren't the one's trading 5 year-old kids candy for salvation. Those who are the most strongly religious are the ones trying to limit other's freedoms based on their belief system, and are out shoving the bible down people's throats. It isn't the sunday christians that give me a bad impression of christianity.

 

Sera that is in a way what i was trying to say by it being more important for me to be spiritualy christian not a religious christian i.e. ultra conservative strongly religious. spiritual christians are different they believe not for the power to belittle or use religion against others, but because true christianity is based on love not the things that strongly religious or funamentalist preach as "true" christianity through missrepresentation of a beliefe system.

 

I don't know what bible you're reading, but the KJV I have says that I am going to hell to suffer eternally because I don't believe in god. Yeah, that's based on love...

So...Love? If my child ever refused to "accept" me, or to believe what I want him to I certainly wouldn't punish him eternally for it. Christianity is not based on love. "Believe me or suffer eternally" IS NOT love. You don't torture people you love, even if they turn thier back on you.

 

Well lets here your definition of a true Christian.

 

Yes that is one way to look at it. The Bible is the ONLY religious text with 100% accuarcy in its prophecy. If they were written "to have been fulfilled" they would have to been extremely vague.

My point is, all the propheseys of the O.T. that the Bible has being fulfilled in the N.T., well, who's to say the N.T. writers didn't just have the O.T. next to them as they wrote, and just wrote their stories such that they fulfilled the propheseys? And yes, some were written pretty vague anyways.

Like you have heard so many times. The Bible was "inspired" by god.

Convenient. Nice how the Bible says it's true and inspired, right there in it's own pages. Tell me, if you picked up a book today, say, a science book on evolution that says it is true to the facts, would you believe it? No, I know for a fact you don't. Which is odd, because it will say right there in it that it's right (ok, actually it will say it is the most probable explanation, but you get the point: Saying the Bible is true because the Bible says so is circular, and thus faulty, logic).

God never changes, what makes you think that His words will?

Do you still follow the Mosaic laws laid down in the O.T.? After all, God NEVER changes, right? Those laws must still hold then. Even Jesus said he came not to abolish the law. Why don't you follow the Word of your God?

 

There are no "true christians" because there are no people going to some place called heaven after they die. It's you christians that are always going on about "true" and "false" christians. To me, a christian is someone who believes in god, accepted christ as their savior at some point, and thinks they are going to heaven when they die. I know you guys have the characterizations of "sunday christians" " true christians" and "false christians" and probably more, but it's all the same to me. It isn't like I think some special lot of you are gonna be sitting up on gods lap once you're dead. It's just an association with a religion or belief system.

I guess in the post you are refering to I was calling the "true christians" the actively religious, church attending, gospel spreading folks, and the "sunday christians" are the folks who believe in god, occasionally go to church on sundays and holidays, think they are going to heaven, but don't pray before meals or bedtime, tithe, witness, etc...

 

My point is, all the propheseys of the O.T. that the Bible has being fulfilled in the N.T., well, who's to say the N.T. writers didn't just have the O.T. next to them as they wrote, and just wrote their stories such that they fulfilled the propheseys? And yes, some were written pretty vague anyways.

-That is easier said that done.

Convenient. Nice how the Bible says it's true and inspired, right there in it's own pages. Tell me, if you picked up a book today, say, a science book on evolution that says it is true to the facts, would you believe it? No, I know for a fact you don't. Which is odd, because it will say right there in it that it's right (ok, actually it will say it is the most probable explanation, but you get the point: Saying the Bible is true because the Bible says so is circular, and thus faulty, logic).

- Yes it says that it is inspired by God... yet that is not why I bellieve it is. I believe the Bible was truly inspired by God primarily based on the accuracy of the prophecies throughout history.

Do you still follow the Mosaic laws laid down in the O.T.? After all, God NEVER changes, right? Those laws must still hold then. Even Jesus said he came not to abolish the law. Why don't you follow the Word of your God?

-Your right Jesus did not come to abolish the law... he came to fulfill... it was long written IN THE LAW and throughout the OT that He would do so.

 

But that doesn't somehow nullify the Law. I fulfill the law to a T that says I have to wear a seatbelt. Does that somehow nullify the law for everyone else? I never understood that line of reasoning (if you can call it reason) that Christians use, to explain why the O.T. Law no longer applies.

 

Luke 16:15-17
And He said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God. The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it. And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail.

Jesus says the law and prophets are until John [the Baptist I am assuming]. Through this it seems clear that the old law is gone, however verse 17 has the "easier for heaven and earth to pass away" passage that always comes up in these discussions.

Anyone else confused?

 

Perhaps he meant:

"And He said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God. The law and the prophets were (an abomination) until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it. And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail"

Now that the truth of the matter has been revealed by John, the Law has been purified and is once again highly esteemed in the sight of God. Just one way of understanding it, perhaps.

 

So if you see someone doing something that might cause injury to themselves or others, you believe we should not warn them? WOW. Maybe we should close down all the schools to.

 

I don't think people are honestly striving. I think you have to fully understand what motivates you to really strive for something, else your just stumbling towards a goal. Most "christians" don't even understand what they believe, they just follow what they are taught. Do sheep strive for food? No, they just eat whats put in front of them, as with most chrisitans and what they believe. The only striving that might be happening is them striving to keep believing in a flawed religion.

 

I don't see why it matters to one person what another believes or what religion they follow or if they are this or that and why it is such a big deal to have a spirtual faith at all. as far as i'm concerned anyone who follows a faith is absolutely allowed to do so, as long as they are not harming other individual. sorry kind of off topic, but it seems like everyone is always defending that they have beliefs and everyone else if bashing that they have beliefs. I am a christian and that is what works for me and have wiccan friends and i have muslim friends and jews and a druid follower in there and famliy and friends who still follow the old tribal ways and I love and respect them with ever fiber of my body because deep down its all the same a love of a god who is most likely the same god with differnt personalities based on the culture they were percieved in. so love to everyone.

 

Sunshine and Pearls, you have the right spirit, there; at least I think so. Why would God only favor one people, only reveal himself once to one tribe? Why would the rest of the world be ignorant of God until that tribe's message spread? It's just silly, of course God or divinity or spirit or whatever it is would be available to all people, everywhere, every time. How can you miss an omnipresent being?

 

Exactly right, Trippin!