Question to Scots about Scots Americans

only things we know about the MacAlpine clan is that which was scribbled down by the Ceasers (at least, from the sources heron is so fond of)..... your wasting your time IH, heron is a lover of history books...... bless him

 

I'm not saying he's stuck in the dark ages. I respect most of what he has said, and i do acknowledge that there are "Scots" abroad. Donald Trump whose mother was a MacLeod from the Western Isles has announced this week that he'll be building a world class golf resort in Scotland. The reason he choose Scotland is because he is proud of his "roots". So who am i to argue. It would be stupid telling him to bugger off he's not Scottish. And just because he's got lots of money that doesn't mean that people who don't have lots of money can't have the same pride. I don't think you quite appreciate the history of the clans and the strong connection they felt with the land that their ancestors were on for certainly hundreds, maybe even thousands of years. It wasn't all fun and games. When they left their homes in hills it wasn't with joy in their hearts it was with tears in their eyes. Even in England, right up until the 1940's, perhaps even later than that, some people in England thought we were still running around swinging broad swords and battle axes. That's a fact. and you talk about living in the dark ages

 

lol! i may live in durham, i may be english...... but my name is McIlwraith... do some research, come meet my family.....then attempt to give me a histroy lesson and teach me about scots culture


Scots culture is just that... living in a scottish culture, not pretending in some ancestral heritage..... and claiming that which your family turned their back on is yours....

but hey, I don't need to tell you that....... i'm sure australians, new zealanders, everywhere the british empire and all it's colonies reached to... still adopt and foster a memory of the british culuture.... the Patels in New Dheli probably wake every morning and thank that they are british, no? ..... oh yeah, Ghandi, well, just a blimp in their britishness.....

 

i didn't say that you did say he was stuck in the dark ages, don't think anyone even mentioned the dark ages

 

There are some things known about Kenneth MacAlpine. That's where the Lion Rampant comes from the Dalriadic Scots. The current British monarchy can trace it's line back to the Anglo-Saxon period but derives it's most ancient pedigree by tracing it's line through the Dalriadic Kings. The MacAlpine dynasty was by no means the beginning, we know the name of every king for 300 plus years before that. I'd be interested to know what he has found out while searching.

 

My apologies....... i thought we were talking pre- 17 century


i'm sure heron will be glad to fill you in on the history of his clan

 

2006bc = dark ages It's ok, there's no problem. I'm just making it clear to save any confusion.

We're talking the 9th century, i believe. It would maybe surprise you what is known. It's much the same with English history too, if you go to the right places there are records that tell us quite a lot about our past.

 

I think it's more a "Celtic Culture" in the USA, is it not? That's my understanding of it all. I really don't have any idea of what goes on in America Austrailia, NZ or Canada. Highland games and Celtic festivals but i think they're all one and the same. Anyway nice to meet you. I know some McIlwraiths. It's not a common name though.

 

Island hopper, like you were saying of Irish Americans all in Irish politics, and what was said by the Scots American to you about fighting is retarded, politically i dont care what Scotland does, its your country, i have mine to worry about.

As to My Macalpine lineage, I am directly decended from William the Lion (on the most evident branch). Unlike Oz, i know my sloinneadh, and can give you the entire line from Aplin of Dal Riada all the way to my sons. If you'd like it.

Oz, are you saying that you arent Scots either? Seeing how you live in England, are English but have a Gaelic surname? What the fuck? Does America just not count to you?

I am not stuck in the stone age, jackass, i am stuck in south mississippi in 2006, but as an animistic pagan, my ancestors are quite important, why would i just leave that out? So not only do you have a beef with me being a Scot, you also dont like my being pagan? You seem to overconcern yourself with others lifestyles.

 

Asshat! The Caesars were dead and gone by the time of Alpine Dalriada. Caears never saw it.

 

I'm glad to hear it, I've already stumbled across a website where Americans were discussing buying islands in Scotland "to plant a seed". I think there was hundreds of applications to buy two houses on the island but they say "it's a start" and "from small acorns grow giant oaks". They think they know what's best for my country and they question whether i'm a "real" Scot or not because i dare question their motives. I've tried reasoning with them but i get the feeling the only thing they'd listen to is a good hard slap on the kisser!

No certainly not. It's not like i don't believe you. Here in Scotland we don't bother tracing our family trees but I've noticed Americans have taken to it in a big way. A lot of you actually know a lot more about Scotland than people living here. We're quite ignornant of our history actually. I could tell you who my great grandfather was but before that i have no idea. The reason for that is because my grandfather took 9 bullets in ww2 and when he got home he basically turned into a drunken arse. My father was the youngest of 5 children (the 2nd youngest was 9 years older than my father) so he was still a young boy when my grandfather got back from the war and by this time he didn't even acknowledge his own son if he passed him in the street. He was a changed man and my father still resents him for it a bit so it's a touchy subject. He died before i was born but I daren't ask too many questions. My grandmother taught me to speak Gaelic though, although i was never taught to read or write it. I see a lot of Americans of Scots descent starting to learn it and i think that's a good thing. It can't do any harm that's for sure. I would hate to see the language die out. Anyway i think you should give "native Scots" time to come to terms with "Scots-Americans" taking an interest in our country, it's all new to us we're not used to it. Most people will take you as they find you. I'm sure you won't make the same mistake as Condoleeza Rice did and call England a "proud island"

 

I appreciate your sincerity and respect island hopper. It is people like Oz that caused me to ask the original question. He seems to think all we do is dress in kilts, eat haggis and make it to the Robbie Burns dinner every year. That is not Scots American culture. Most Scots Americans dont even own a kilt or know what haggis is. I am the former games chief of our local highland games, and we do all show up in a kilt, especially the athletes, and there are people there in the "clan tartan" and you can get haggis is a can, but that is just a fun weekend. Just a once a year festival, no different than the native american powwows they have.

I laughed when you said that up till the 40s, the english thought the Scots ran around with a targe and a claymore. I laugh, because here, we get the same things
within our own country. My wife moved here to South Mississippi from Los Angeles, her friend asks "Oh My God, do you have running water?"

We are still barefoot and making moonshine to most people. And at best, we are all dressed to the nines in our "KKK" outfits "lynching some Negros". But oh well, thats their ignorance, not mine.

 

I wouldn't feel bad about only wearing a kilt once a year, here we only wear them to weddings and that's only if you are the groom or close family. The "Tartan Army" (Scotland football supporters) wear them to football matches as well. Other than that nobody wears kilts apart from the occasional old boy you'll see walking around with his walking stick and collie dog. Most people are put off haggis because of gossip they've listened to about what it's made of. The fact is you even get vegetarian haggis. So big deal if it's cooked in the lining of a sheep's stomach. Jings, go to France and order a steak, the blood is dripping from it! Haggis is cooked with spices in it which gives it a nice flavour i don't understand how anybody can say they don't like it. That said, i don't eat it very often. How many people attend these Games?

The clans used to light a warning beacon (a fiery cross) to warn of imminent danger and the kkk hijacked this. So that's where the cross comes from but i don't know about the outfits! Some say it was started by a Scot or "Scotch-Irish" i don't know but if it was they should have known that the only people we ever had to worry about was other white people. Like i say though i don't know too much about your own country but the blacks in Los Angeles are no angels? Not them all obviously but I'm guessing they were no angels back then either. I'm in no way attempting to justify what the kkk did by the way, not at all, i just don't go for the idea that the black people had it harder than everybody else. The people who carved out the land are the forgotten heroes. America is a huge country there are so many places I'd want to visit if i was going over there, the "deep south" would definitely be one of them. When i was watching the recent hurricane/floods on tv it was quite weird seeing a woman with a Scottish surname talking with what i can only describe as a distinctly southern accent. I can easily distinguish that from an east coast NY accent. Even though they don't appear to vary that much from east to west I think i would be struggling to point out an LA accent to you. The southern accent, to me, is easily the most recognisable. Ya'll! Here our accents change every 10-20 miles further down the road you go and sometimes quite dramatically.

 

Yeah, i jokingly thought of referencing the fiery cross as one example of the culture, but it wouldnt have been worth the damage. But in reality, yes the "klan" has many scottish elements. It was started in the south, after the war, as a white mans fraternity, and most of the white men were scotsmen. It took a bad turn when it turned violent towards blacks, to the point that the more upstanding members quite.

But today it is only a group of ignorant backwoods hicks who dont even know their own roots.

Speaking of the hurricane, i live in that area, so you have probably seen some of where I live.

As to our games, we have 500+ people show up, and our games are fairly small. Grandfather Mountain Games in North Carolina attracts 30,000+ every year.
We have Tartan Day here and in Canada, its actually next weekend. Its like a none commercial Scots equvalent to St Patricks day, except with cultural pride and celebration rather than a bunch of drunken college students who want to be Irish lol.
There is the Celtic Art, Music, and Heritage Festival around here too, has thousands show up. Its nice, mostly Irish folks, no games or anything, but fun none the less.

We are members of Clan Donald USA, and are supposed to go visit them and have our dinner and social thing. Its just a way for us to have extended family members that we run into at the different games and festivals. Its nice, and they have scholarships for the kids and all.

As for accents, ours changes 20 miles down the road. But, like yours, i am sure i couldnt tell Glasgow from Edinburgh, its just a "scottish" accent, just like mine would just be "southern" to you.

If you drive about 30 miles south of me, out of the forest and on to the coast, the accent is completly different. Their area was settled by the french, when mine were chopping through Appalachia, and where i live now was unsettled until the early 1900s. So by the time we made it down here, their culture was already thriving and set in their ways. So only a half hour seperates us, but culturally, we are totally different.

America is like that. There isnt really an "american" culture, its more a collection of cultures, and that is what american means now. American is no one thing, but many, and we are all united under that one ideal, but still culturally distint from each other.

We have an awesome little bluegrass festival here in the summer. Bluegrass is the Scots-Irish music of Appalachia, and is classified as a Celtic music. But anyway, they were doing their thing and having a blast, and i was loving my roots music i was raised on. After the show, i took my bodhran up, explained it to them, where it came from and why it will fit in.
There is no percussion in bluegrass btw. But the rythym is a Celtic one, so the bodran fell right in. They were amazed and opened up to a part of their history and culture they didnt knew existed.

That is what i am all about.

 

We used to burn “witches” for no reason at all and people now think that’s romantic. I see no point in ignoring it, they made their presence felt like many other Scots did. I don’t think it would be right just remembering the ‘good things’ that Scots achieved. We have nutters like everyone else. It’s in the past now anyway and I don’t think it was only Scotsmen who were in the kkk. We don’t have any racial problems here, we even have asylum seekers winning “young Scot of the year” this week for helping 200 others settle into their new school. No offence to them but it’s just another example of how we bend over backwards to make people feel ‘at home’. There were far more deserving youngsters I’m sure.

From what I seen most of it was flattened but obviously it was news pictures I was seeing. I don’t think anybody can appreciate the destructive power these hurricanes have unless you’ve witnessed it first hand. It was mainly New Orleans that was in the news. Entire neighbourhoods under 5 feet of water and other places looked totally submerged. We get gale forces winds here and the sea can get very choppy with 50 foot waves not uncommon but thankfully we don’t get anything like that. Katrina they called it, they make her sound so sweet. Was your property damaged or did you escape the worst of it?

30,000 people wow. You wouldn’t get anywhere near those numbers here. The kids here are too busy playing computer games and if they’re not doing that they’re eating junk food. I wonder where this culture came from ;-) Scottish kids want to be “American” they think it’s cool to order pizzas and so on because that’s what they see in the movies. Not all of them I might add but certainly some. I hear what you’re saying about the Irish students. I spoke to one who told me he was 98% Irish, now I’m sorry, but that’s just asking to get laughed at! God only knows how he worked that out, probably with a calculator! I don’t think I want to know. There’s a lot of debate going on at present about who is really a “Celt” and who isn’t. The Irish seem convinced they are, and I’m not going to argue. If someone could tell me what it means exactly then maybe I’d be able to come to a conclusion about whether I am or not. I must say though I’m surprised at the numbers of people taking an interest in these events. I don’t think our tourism Industry can wipe the grin off their faces at the moment. I know there are lots of events in Canada. I think Canada and New Zealand is where Scots made up the highest percentage of settlers. I think in America it’s English, German & French, Italian, Spanish then maybe Scots or Irish or even Scotch-Irish? To be honest a lot of people don’t know the difference..lol.

I don’t know if being “culturally different” from the French is a good thing or a bad thing! Chic classy Parisian women, but the men wear onions around their necks..lol. I appreciate that I won’t be able to differentiate between some of the accents over there and that they will vary more than I realise. Here it’s not just Scottish accents but accents all over the British Isles that differ immensely. In each country making up Britain I think I can safely say the accents differ much more than in the USA. I would say especially in England where you have Geordie accent (Newcastle). It’s right on the Scot-Eng border and I have a friend whom I have known for around a year now and I still need to get him to repeat himself every time he speaks to me. Then there is the Birmingham accent, the less said about that the better, Cockney accent (London) with their rhyme and slang, Welsh, a lot of them actually speak Gaelic. Don’t even get me started on the Glasgow & Ayrshire accents! You probably only hear the ‘educated’ Scottish accents on tv, if I make a phonecall to England I need to try and speak “proper” English or quite frankly it would be a waste of time. “Proper” English by the way, and not a lot of English people know this, is spoken in the Highlands of Scotland better than anywhere else. Inverness Perth areas speak very good English. Surprisingly In Ireland they do to especially in the South. Maybe I’m just showing my ignorance but I don’t think there are any American accents that I wouldn’t be able to understand. Apart from perhaps the “yo bitch you mo-fing ho” speak. I mean if that’s English then so am i!

“American culture” to us is like I already pointed out. Ordering pizzas, guns, fast cars, drugs, ladies of the night! Just exactly what we see on tv. I know what you’re saying though. You’re an “ethnic melting pot” but a lot of you still manage to preserve your unique cultures. I think that’s what makes America especially unique. I sometimes wonder about Multi culturalism anyway. I know in the USA the Spanish, African Americans, Mexicans, Italians, Chinese Native Indians and just about any other group you can mention they all have their own separate identity. I know all that but unfortunately most people tend to believe what Hollywood wants them to believe.

I must confess that even though half of my family are from the Highlands & Islands and the other half are from Ulster, I haven’t taken much of an interest in Scotch-Irish music. If I’m going to be completely honest I feel that we’re encouraged not to show any pride in our “Ulster roots” here (In Britain). I don’t know why that is exactly, I can’t quite put my finger on it. However I have heard of this “bluegrass” music before, could you direct me to any helpful websites where I might be able to listen to some of the music?



edit: PS, I'm going away for 4 or 5 days but i would like to have a listen to it when i get back, it would be great if you can help. Cheers.

 

As to the Katrina, New Orleans got the least of it. We got ignored here in mississippi, because New Orleans is such a big tourist spot. Their levee broke,
thats where all the water came from. On our coast here, entire towns were taken
off the map. One place, Waveland (ironically) had a storm surge go 10 miles inland, up to 30 feet in places. It was horrible there. I spent 4 weeks in a Rainbow kitchen in waveland, serving 2000 meals a day. We had lots of trees over, but no surge. We live in the hilly inland, not the immediate coast. Our house is fine, but lots in our neighborhood werent so lucky. I lost my job from it, our casinos were completly destroyed, so they didnt need a graphic designer anymore, but i hated the job anyway.

I promise there are some accents, in the south especially, that you wouldnt understand. I stumble with them sometimes, but fortunatly, the thick slurred ones
are usually slow, so you can pick words out, but some words are regional, so you might not even know what is being said.

Like you were saying, we mostly see each others television, so only the better accents. Most american tv shows are in New York, LA or Vegas, not really take place in backwater Kentucky, lol, so you miss alot.

One of the funnier southern comedians a while back was poking fun at our speaking, and it was spot on true. He had this little conversation as an example:
"Jeet yet?" "Naw" "Yonttoo" "Aiight". Basically "did you eat yet" "no" "do you want to?" "Alright". Put down on paper it looks crazy, but thats exactly how it sounds.
There is a strong Scots element in our dialect as well, even some of the same words. I have described our accents in the south as 3/4 Scots 1/4 Cockney, just from other influences. If you get down about 3 hours southwest from here, lots of people dont even speak english, they speak Creole and Acadian French. And those who do speak english have such a thick accent that you get lost. The French dont even understand their french.

The "yo yo yo wassup my biatch" is a shame on our culture and it is definatly frowned on. You get small town southern teenagers who talk like that, and drive
gangster cars, dress all hiphop. They wouldnt last a day in Los Angeles, but they think they are hard OG gangsters. Its retarded, they just mimick what they see on tv, like the kids you were talking about there.

I have highland and Ulster roots as well. I am a MacQueen, of Skye variety, but on my Ulster Scot side, i am decended from Daniel Boone, one of the more famous "Scotch Irish" in america. In my lineage there is also Irish (pre-Dalriada) and Welsh and the occasional scandinavian popping in, but, honestly, any Highlander would be hard pressed to not have some viking blood, same with the Irish.

You are right about the make-up of European americans. Mostly English, in the North, Norse in the upper mid-west, spanish in the southeast, French and Spanish on the gulf coasts, but mosts Scots/Irish/Scotch-Irish in the Southeaster interior. Pennsylvania, down the east coast and into the southern states.

That was a major player in the War Between the States. It was the same ole Scots vs the English thing, largely, and mostly because as normal, English equaled money and in change of the tyranny, and Scots/Irish equalled the poor and hard working.
It was a Scots brigade that fired the first shots at the Union. And there was the Sons of Erin brigade that fought alot of battles. Irish immigrants fought for the north, but mostly because of force and bribery of the Union.

http://bluegrasscountry.org/, i found that site for you, it has an MP3 radio feed, should play in your MP3 program.

Take care man, have a safe trip.

 

It seemed from what i seen on the news that the whole country froze for the first couple of days. We were getting reports that people were stranded for days with no medical help nor food. I seen people looting for food, which i guess is acceptable given the circumstances. I read the police were only shooting(?) or arresting people who were looting things like tv sets etc. There was one couple from Scotland who were caught up in it and they were in the newspaper weeks later saying they had to loot for food or they would have starved. I think they sent the shop owner a cheque when they arrived home. You were lucky being inland. Not so lucky (or maybe you were) with the job, sorry to hear that, but it's never too late for a career change! How high up do you live? I've heard of the Appalachian (sp?) mountains but i couldn't tell you anything about them. Is that "hillbilly" land? Some of the trees you get in America are quite something else, like the Giant Redwoods for example. Do you have any of them near by? I read somewhere they grow 350 feet high. I wouldn't fancy sawing many of them down in a day!

Aye it's a bit presumptuous of me to think i'd understand all the different accents. What i was trying to say is that given it's about 3,000 miles from east coast to west coast the accents don't appear to change much (on tv anyway). I'm laughing at you saying "jeetyit" & "naw" that's exactly how I'd say it. That's a funny mix i must say, cockney and Scots. I actually think the Cockney accent is one of the easier English accents to understand. Although some of them talk fast and it can be difficult to keep up with at times. I can definitely understand it though. When i was in London a shop keeper said to her assistant "can you serve the German fellow". I never realised i sounded German but i obviously did to her! It's never as clear cut as you hear on tv anyway, every place has it's own slang words and accents that you don't fully appreciate until you go there.

"Lachtaplin standing stone. The place name LachtAlpen, or Lacht-Aplin, comprises the Gaelic element Leac 'grave stone' and the personal name Aplin, and is said to mark the burial place of a chief called Aplin, possibly the father of Kenneth MacAplin." It's in Southern Scotland i tried to find a picture for you but i had no luck on google. You're right about the vikings they settled in large numbers in the Western Isles of Scotland as well as Skye and the northern tip of Scotland. Also in Ireland like you say, i think they founded Dublin if my memory serves me right. Most people in Scotland will have Pict Gael and definitely some Norse genes in them. Some of the islanders actually consider themselves more Norwegian than Scottish.

Apart from getting caught in a snow storm that appeared from nowhere and held us up for 3 hours the trip was fine. I haven't had time to look at the site and it's not worth me doing so at the moment, my speakers aren't working. They were working fine the last time used them so i don't know what's the matter with them. Much appreciated though I'll definitely have a listen as soon as i get the speakers working again. Guess what i'll be doing for the next hour and a half

 

The fact that you know that is scary. I think to cover the original question Scottish people would probably listen you tell them about the above and think you had issues. They would see you as some silly American who in having an interest in his heritage took it to a stupidly fanatical level that only Americans can. That's the way the average person on the street would view it in my opinion anyway. I've seen the same thing in Ireland so many times and that's always what most people think of it.

 

It may be silly to you, but when you leave home, you take your things with you. The Celtic race has migrated the span of Europe, and now across the Western Ocean. Had they left their culture and ancestors along the way, then what would Ireland be?

But congrats to you and the others on the street that you dont know past
your grandfather. You should be proud, and duelly justified in putting down others for knowing otherwise. Up Ireland, land of the blissfully forgetful!

Personally, i think being catholic is silly, but who i am to talk about the silly Irish and their Saints.

 

Not high, we live in what is called the Piney Woods, hilly land up from the coast. Appalachia starts in the northeast corner of the state and goes up into Pennsylvania. My family came to the coast a few generations ago.

And yes, Appalachia is hillbilly land, home to moonshine and bluegrass.
My pawpaw was a moonshiner up until the 60s, always thought that was kinda cool, running the good ole Mountain Dew through the backwoods.

The Redwoods and Seqouia are all out west, on the west coast. Have never seen them, but plan too. We have scrawny pines and some hardwoods here. Lots of Magnolia and Dogwood, very southern plants that people love in the spring.

Yeah tv is tv ya know. Most southern accents you hear on tv are shit as well, played by yankee actors with bad acting. As to "jeet", i'm tellin ya, you get here and you would see more parallels. In the south, we call kids "shits", alot, and i never realized it was a Scots thing until i came across it in a book. Always thought that was kinda funny.

I appreciate the effort, and the respect. As to the islands, yeah i have heard that especially in the Orkneys that people consider themselves Norse rather than Scot. But as far as Scotlands culture, as a country goes, the Scandinavian and British cultures have become just a much a part as the Gael. Yeah, the Vikings founded Dublin, Olaf the White was king of Dublin. I would get into that part of my lineage, but i am sure the "irish" would scof at it.

Would love to see snow, only seen it twice in my life, and both times in small amounts. I hope you enjoy the music, havent listened much to that site, so I dont know how well it represents the music, but i could always email you an mp3 or two of my favorites.

Take care brother.