Question that proves god wrong?

Mr Stiffy,

I'm no stranger to science. Its played a major part in my life, and was actually the springboard for my own spiritual journey years ago. You have limited yourself to physical science. I got to the point where that could no longer satisfy me. The fact that you're posting here instead of the science forum means you got the same itch now.

If you want to go where the real action is, you need to make the jump from physics to metaphysics.

All metaphysics is...is science. Instead of dealing with physical matter, we deal with energies more rarified than current technology can even dream of. Consciousness is just one of these energies.

But consciousness controls them all.

Physical matter and the physical plane where it resides is towards the lower end of this spectrum. 99.9% of creation exists above us. So literally, there's no place to go but up.

If I can lure you out of your cave, I think you're going to like the view from up there. And if nothing else, it will help you understand the physical world in a way you would not think possible otherwise.




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I have not just limited myself to physical sciences. I've also studied computer science, biology and dabbled in neurology. And believe me, there is so much to learn. One of my main interests in science is cosmology. While I doubt science will be able to tell us where the universe came from in my lifetime, there is still an incredible amount of information and ideas about how it happened. Compared to all of human history, the advances we've made in the 20th century towards learning what the universe is and where it came from are mind boggling. The 21st century is sure to bring many more advances. We are in the process right now of learning about the universe and in the 40,000+ years humanity has been around banging stones together most of that time and conjuring up fables to explain where we came from, I am here at a time when we have the intellect, the technology, and the data to begin to really answer these questions. I am more than satisfied.

Metaphysics has been going on for thousands of years. Like I said above, the last 100 years in physics has been mind blowing. It was only the first few years of the 1900s that we had proof of atoms. We thought the milky was was the universe. Then came relativity, quantum mechanics, knowledge of the true scale of our universe, images of the first stars, new planets continuously being discovered, advances in particle physics, results from deep space probes showing maps of the universe when it was about 300,000 yrs old, black holes, gamma ray bursts, and a phenomonal list of other advances. How can you seriously tell me the action is in metaphysics?

How can it be a science if it doesn't even follow the scientific method?

 

It isn't science, but not everything that can be discovered can be discovered through science.

Not everything should be measured up through science - Some things are just not empirically measurable, and this doesn't prove the nonexistence thereof, instead, it just proves that science is limited and you have to use something else, and I don't know what this something else is.


Anyway, talking about all of this is pretty useless, since no one here is going to change their minds, and those that do change their minds, might do so for wrong reasons.

 

Can't make the jump just yet, eh? Thats okay too.

All that you've listed ARE physical sciences. None of them pierce the veil.

Metaphysics has it's share of nut jobs, and they've done much to muddy the waters of understanding. But real metaphysics has nothing to do with being new age or any of that.

All I want to do for you, is to show you things of such a high frequency, it doesn't adhere to any of the physical laws that govern this world.

You've heard how heaven is a place where you can have anything you want? "Heaven" is merely a place beyond where physical laws apply. The mind straddles this boundry. It is sustained by a current which flows from these higher frequencies, and then through the mind, it finds expression in the physical world.

Need some visual imagery? Let's use the Play Doh machine. Remember those? You put the Play Doh in, push down on the lever, it goes through a die, and out comes Play Doh in various shapes.

"God" is the Play Doh. Your mind is the die. And the physical world you see around you is an expression of what your mind has created for you. (It has AMAZING powers you don't know about just yet.)

Right now, all you can see are the various shapes. Later on, as you evolve into spiritual maturity, you will begin to see what actually composes all those various shapes.

Your interest in the physical world will wane pretty rapidly after that.

Some people run off to monasteries or caves after this experience. Most will return to a worldly existance afterward and live the remainder of their lives in awe of what they percieve.

And like me, will struggle to explain it to those who haven't gone there yet themselves.



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Physical sciences are the study of non living systems, so biology and neurology are not physical sciences.

As for the rest of your post you are correct. I see no reason to make that jump when reality suits me fine. I'll leave you to your fun.

 

How can you be so sure what reality is?

 

Thats what boggles my mind about 'realistic' people who live in 'reality'.

 

those are pretty weak arguments

 

They really are.

 

Oh no. I was hoping no one would get me with that one. You guys are good.

 

The top quote in my signature defines this thread rather nicely, I think.

 

That was well-reasoned, and to add to it, there is not a single reason to think that something needs to have been created in order to exist anyway. If someone feels there is, an example of something being created (from nothing) would be a good way to make their point.

(and to answer my own challenge, "a thought" is something that can be created from nothing, but the questions associated are: (A) does a thought technically 'exist' anyway? (B) are thoughts created from nothing, or are they created through brain chemistry (or even 'created' anyway)? (C) How much wood would a woodchuck chuck, if I knew what a woodchuck was?)

Oy, I didn't read any of the posts between this and my last one yet.

 

Pure consciousness is like a glass smooth ocean. No thoughts at all. You're aware, but in a non thinking mode. You're just "there". Most have enjoyed this at some point in their life. Ever catch yourself just kind of spacing out on something?

Thoughts occur when desire is brought into the picture. Thoughts are the first step in creation, i. e., the desire to create. This starts at a subtle level and works its way down into the conscious mind.

You've heard of thought forms? It's a yogic term, although Theosophy made it more famous. They actually exist in the astral levels, and this is how a master knows what his student is thinking. He can see it as they are created.

Thought forms are not tangible by physical standards, but as you add energy to them, they decend down into the physical world and manifest in the mind and are then modified further by that person's individual nature. (That nature being a product of experiences gained in life)

What that individual does with the thought at that point is a result of how disiplined the person is internally.



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Actually, that isn't well-reasoned because it doesn't leave room for other possibilities. In other words, it assumes so much that the entire argument collapses onto itself - circular logic, I believe it's called.

The universe itself had a beginning. And according to the laws of nature, everything has a cause and effect. You are stuck with infinite regression if you think there isn't something beyond the natural world, perhaps.

Scientists propose that their is a universe that pumps out other universes, forever. But what ultimately caused the universe that pumps out other universes? Again, you go back to infinite regression. Even Einstein believed in a creator in his later life; He just believed that this creator forgot about us after our creation (He was a deist). Einstein knew that if the universe had a beginning, and everything is a cause and effect, then something must have created the universe. Maybe there is something that I am missing, but at least I understand the power of saying maybe.

Science, in nature, is agnostic.

 

Infinite regression cuts both ways. If everything must have a cause, what caused that?

 

It depends on the rules of the beyond, if there is such a thing, and the very notion of something beyond this universe fries up my brain.

If the beyond doesn't need a cause and effect to operate, then it could be immune to infinite regression.

I won't tell you how the beyond operates, because I have no idea, but I think it's important to think of the possibility that there might be something beyond the natural world, and this something doesn't require a cause and effect.

 

"I won't tell you how the beyond operates, because I have no idea"

So, turn up your frequency and have a look for yourself.

Its within your ability to do so. Every one of you.

You don't watch just one TV channel, do you? Same with creation. Lots of channels.

More than cable even.


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What exactly can I do to tune in? I have experienced that, "all connected feeling", and I can experience it almost at will... it's as if nothing really matters but this one truth, and this one truth can be the connection that we all share.

 

Have compassion for all things. Treat them as an extension of your own self.

Once you embody this way of life, your ability to see distance will improve.

Its much like when your eyes adjust to a dark room. Everything was there to begin with, you just couldn't see it.



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Like Allegory of The Cave.

=)