Quantum Observer Weirdness!

Discussion in 'Science and Technology' started by wooleeheron, Jun 2, 2018.

  1. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter

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    The absolute truth is the self-evident truth that requires no explanation. That's the approach that I'm taking, of simply describing how time is not what academia has always assumed.
     
  2. juggawatta

    juggawatta Love

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    If it required no explanation god would not have created speech and within the correct rendering of the meaning of 42 you will find...

    Communication.
     
  3. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter

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    A good orgasm requires no explanation, the self-evident truth justifies itself by unconditionally lending everything else meaning, including all our petty philosophies. Speech is a tool like any other, that can be used and abused by saints and sinners alike.
     
  4. juggawatta

    juggawatta Love

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    I suppose I wouldn't know then because I've only had bad ones. Super bad!
     
  5. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter

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    The unconditional truth lends its meaning to everything, which why nature can play peek-a-boo with the truth. The issue is how does that impact our mortal fallibility, and quantum mechanics has suggested for over a century that metaphysical explanations are never going to manage the task. What is required is a simpler way to make more sense out of the Big Picture and that's what I'm working on, something that can describe anything including the Big Picture, in pragmatic terms.
     
  6. juggawatta

    juggawatta Love

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    I must be unconditional truth then, and currently I'm not allowed to play peek-a-boo which is why I own my very own fire hydrant.

    How does truth and peek-a-boo impact our mortal fallibility? The wages of sin is death.

    The answer to the matter is the Lord Jesus Christ Almighty but he is also the problem. He'll say to you "you're a dinner, repent" and AW, HELL NO! People don't want to do it. That was supposed to say sinner but apparently autocorrect is in a disagreeable mood.

    Do you want to be someone's dinner? A good meal. The anagram of male is meal. The anagram of female is flamee. One cooks their meal with flamee and then ravishes it. They sit at a table 4 2 because it's not a sandwich!
     
  7. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter

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    There are many lesser truths and, then, there is the one greater truth, that the truth always determines any content. Ask not what the truth can do for you, but what have you done for a greater truth lately? For whoever shall support more of the One Greater Truth, shall long endure, while falling on your ass gracefully counts for extra points in duets!
     
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  8. juggawatta

    juggawatta Love

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    Love it, lol.

    I'm pure truth but I'm problematic because I like to joke and mess around. I am part clown. However, call upon me to clarify and set things straight and right and I will.
     
  9. Mountain Valley Wolf

    Mountain Valley Wolf Senior Member

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    That is certainly possible. After all, light exists simultaneously all along the wave; past, present, and future. Likewise the superpositioned wave exists all through time and space. Therefore the 4th dimension is both timeless and represents all time. If it represents all time, then it is easy to argue that everything is predetermined, for all future reality already exists.

    And there certainly is something to it, since information and particles appear into physical reality based on time as defined by the speed of light, in other words, at a (pre)determined rate. But I don't subscribe any more than that to such a model, and this is why----1.) It takes away free will and existential freedom, and quantum randomness and probability. 2.) the universe becomes little more than a clockwork. 3.) Mind loses value and meaning if it is unable to experience any more than that which is predetermined. 4.) Life loses meaning and value--the big picture is that it becomes nothing more than watching a clock tick off the minutes and hours, unable to change anything.

    While my philosophy is very essentialist it is grounded in existentialism---in fact, I take existentialism full circle back to its essentialist roots of Husserl and Kierkegaard. Therefore I am a firm believer in existential freedom. While there are trends in place in the universe---a destiny of sorts, with Quantum Information determining where a particle will manifest, it is also understood that this Information includes an encoded probability, and therefore the universe also allows for randomness. One of the particles that will help compose your computer screen in a moment or two is expected to be within your computer, however there is a probability that it may instead manifest anwhere and any time in the universe.

    A fetus is growing in a woman with the intention that it will be born into the world, but the mother could decide to abort it, or she may decide to abort it and then be talked out of it. Or she may look forward to having her baby but be killed along with her child in a terrible car accident.

    There is a past, present, and future because mind transcends the physical present. Mind perceives the continuous progression of moments of Now, even though in each moment, nothing physically exists except that moment and all that currently exists within it. But the mind remembers what has been and and anticipates a future, including one that it can shape through its own individual volition and intention. However, if everything is predetermined, then we start to run into the conclusion of epiphenomenalism that everything we believe and experience to be mind is simply a reflection of a biochemical response that happens automatically---mechanically, and that mind is really an illusion. If this is the case, then the wall cannot truly 'know' what will happen. Quantum Information is simply raw and dead programmed data, and has no true intention. Therefore it does not truly have potential to be passed on, or to change and take on history; it is not viable and flexible but simply moves around the universe as it is programmed to. And we can not truly know anything, or intend anything, and even the history we remember is simply programmed as such. If mind is illusion, then it is meaningless. And if this is the case then nothing truly transcends the physical, and life itself is truly absurd.

    That is why I see the 4th dimension---the realm of light and the superpositioned wave-field as representing absolute potentiality. All possible time exists in the 4th dimension just as everything is everywhere and the only thing we know for sure is that entropy will continue. But nothing is actual there----it is only in the physical that actuality occurs. Therefore history--the past--is set in stone, and in this way I resolve the arrow of time---the direction of phenomena from one Quantum Now to the next. Because history represents a past actuality that can't be changed, Quantum Information, carrying that history, maintains the proper context, and form. Your wall doesn't suddenly have a strange picture on it that you nor anyone else never placed on it. But mind transcends the physical and can affect the present and the future, can remember the past, and so forth. Therefore the wall can 'know' the possibility that it will be oil stained in the 90's in fit of rage, or the Quantum Information that makes up its essence can know this possibility.
     
  10. juggawatta

    juggawatta Love

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    We speak different languages while both speaking English. This ought to be fun.

    I have encoded information in this reply that was later removed but because I retain awareness and memory of the information it still exists. Depending on your psyche (spirit) maturity, attunement, alertness you might very well intuit the information and know it regardless that it was removed, and does not appear to your physical human senses (which in this case would be sight). Mind is one simple word containing so many functions. And synonyms. My current synonym for mind is Temple. This word is an indication of my location in Time: eternity.

    I go back in memory and all future was there. Future preexists itself. A fixed point will absolutely be reached; the flexibility (randomness, free will) is how one reaches the fixed point. But no, the fixed point cannot be averted or avoided. Within this scenario are the dimensions and you can see what is greater and lesser, or higher and lower, or any other terms in language that fit. Synonyms are like signs on a map indication location, dimension, or other definition. The higher, more accurate the definition the closer to home (absolute truth).
     
  11. Mountain Valley Wolf

    Mountain Valley Wolf Senior Member

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    I can dig that. Death is inevitable, the sun will one day die out, and the universe may very well come to an end.

    I use the term mind because it is so generic and can refer to anything from spirit, God(s), the thinking part of living beings, and even the animistic side of the universe (synonyms as you point out). Mind is traditionally used in philosophy to represent the nonphysical, particularly a metaphysical nonphysical reality---the mind-body duality is the equivalent to a physical-nonphysical reality. Aristotle used the term mind (nous) in similar ways, using it to refer to both the human mind and the cosmic or universal mind. Also mind by definition is nonphysical, which I think is important to stress in this modern world that is overly focused on physicality. (I also define the quantum wave-field as nonphysical and in fact relate it to mind.) Finally because mind is so generic it downplays any religious and dogmatic implications and therefore can be open to all kinds of religious, spiritual, nonreligious, and of course purely philosophical, interpretations.

    I understand what you are saying, and I have to agree that there are those inescapable points of life. But I think I might believe in a greater flexibility around that fixed point than you do. For example, death is inevitable. But I don't believe that the time of death is fixed in stone. This is a bit of a catch 22 argument because how can we know different----but, as an example, my dad had prostate cancer. He was doing radiation and some other treatments but it was getting worse. When it moved in to his bones I suggested that he do ceremony---with a Lakota Medicine Man. My parents are christian and I wasn't sure if he would do it----but he went for it. So we had a medicine man do a yuwipi (spirit calling) ceremony and he is now cancer
    free. I would argue, because free will is involved here, that we extended his life beyond the death that nature originally intended for him. But of course, one could argue that he was destined to attend that ceremony and so forth.

    In fact, Quantum Mechanics has the Wheeler Delayed Observation experiment which suggests that an observation or measurement of a particle changes the entire wave---past, present, and future. It doesn't matter where or when this observation takes place----it can even happen after the fact.

    I don't remembr if I clarified it or not, but when I say only the present exists, I mean that only the present has physical existence. In this present moment, only what is physically here right now (in an almost infinitely small moment of Now) anywhere and everywhere in the universe is what has existence. There is no other physical reality within our universe. Once that now is done, all the physicality of it is gone, it no longer exists, but a new Now exists. When you remember the past it is something that involves the realm of mind and is therefore nonphysical. But there is no direction we can point to and say that the past is over there. And this is true even though we can experience the phenomena of the past. If time is defined, as Einstein has done, by the speed of light, then we can look in the sky and see a star that is hundreds of light years away, in which case we are seeing something as it was hundreds of years ago. But I am seeing it in the present, and in the present that star may not even exist anymore. I am not actually seeing the past, because I am seeing it in the present, I am only seeing the phenomena of the past----a reflection of it if you will. I cannot even point to the star and say there is the past of hundreds of years ago----because where I am pointing is currently in the same moment of Now, I just can't experience the Now as it exists in that star's location. The same is true if you and I were in the same room looking at each other. What I see is a relfection of you in the past as of so many milliseconds ago. The light currently leaving my position and heading to you, which you will experience in so many milliseconds from now is in your future. But while this light had a position as photons as it was leaving the atom's of my person (in a process we understand as reflection), and was therefore physical, it immediately lost that position and was a wave (or wave-field), so that future is still nonphysical. The light I am seeing as your past, only has a position as a photon as it is absorbed into atoms within the vision cells of my eyes in the present----otherwise it too, as my future and your past, was nonphysical.

    All of the phenomena in the universe that is approaching any point in the universe (and approaching is an inaccurate Newtonian interpretation, but that is how we perceive it to be happening) represents that predetermined future. If the sun where to explode in a supernova, we have about 8 minutes till we see it (probably the last thing we would ever see in the universe----certainly one of your fixed points. But for so many other predetermined points, if we can change the phenomena as it approaches us, as suggested by the Wheeler Delayed Observation experiment, then this means we can shape our reality.

    This has been demonstrated by a series of well-documented experiments performed at MIT. These experiments which involved intention---altered the reality of such things as the growth of insect larvae, the coagulation of human blood, and the .ph of water. The 19th century philosopher Brentano said that every thought has an intentional object. In other words, every thought is a thought of an object---of a thing. We cannot think of no-thing. I treat Quantum Information the same way---it represents an intentional object, a certain specific subatomic particle with a specific position, spin, and other qualities, with a specific probability to manifest in that way. I treat mind as spontaneous and creative. We can choose our intentions, and create them. They can be changed and altered. Likewise, we know that Quantum Information can be changed and altered. This is how, I argue, that human intention can be used to alter the .ph of water for example. Or why we can alter or change so many things that we would think are predetermined
     
  12. juggawatta

    juggawatta Love

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    I can think of no-thing very easily. It's where I come from and can't wait to return to. It's perfect. Nothing to have, nothing to know, nothing to think, nothing to feel. Full rest, still, no motion, no input, no output. Conscious awareness of nothing is the best thing I know lol.

    I'm glad your father got to experience the fruit of hope. With his new life, may his heart and soul be fulfilled!

    The tree from yesteryear is here. It's rooted in a dream called earth. I dreamed earth from a place called nothing. It wowed the observers. I gave birth to the universe and now all this distance later here we are. Looking to the tomorrow we call future is my death and decay which I cannot avoid. I already dwell in those future spaces and when I get there I will greet myself with a hey, I remember you. I remember this. Remember that Saturday we talked about it? I'll grumble response to myself miserably while striving on for origin. And there again I will eventually be.

    everything and nothing, with most of it miserable, retained memory of the chosen point, the time and place, when and where none of it exists, because it was never supposed to. The moment I'm far enough away. When there becomes here. Remove the T. Take a cross off, uncomfortable accessory to a no good outfit.

    if that looked like Jesus tell him I said it's time to be me for a thousand years.
     
  13. Mountain Valley Wolf

    Mountain Valley Wolf Senior Member

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    Good point---Brentano obviously did not consider meditation. Though on second thought: I was trying to figure out if this would represent an intentional object of Nothingness---the void. But then the obvious hit me-----you are not thinking of no-thing-----you are simply 'not thinking.' You are returning to a ground-state of consciousness.


    Thank you.


    My take on all of this is that one of our primary purposes in life---the meaning of life, if you will---is to experience. We experience pain, happiness, ecstacy, and everything in between within the context of appearance that our time in the physical is all there is or ever will be (the context of temporality). And this gives meaning to our immortal selves---consciousness as it exists outside of the physical. I have often used the Twilight Zone episode (in the original series) of the gambler as an example----he complains because he never seems to win, and wishes that he was in a casino where he would never lose. So next thing you know (it was Rod Serling's fault ;-) ), he is in a casino where he always wins. At first he really likes it, but after a bit he becomes bored till he realizes that hius gambling has lost all meaning---why do it if he is only going to win. I relate this to our immortal conscious selves where we don't die, and probably do not experience pain, do not hurt each other, and so forth---and most important, where we actually know that we have unlimited potential to shape and change our reality. So here we are, thinking that this is it, and losing and hurting each other, believing that we can do very little to change what is happening to us, and so forth----accumulating memories to give meaning to immortality.

    This does not require that things are largely not predetermined. We can exist here and there simultaneously as the superpositioned reality of simultaneously being everywhere and everytime suggests. So you could be very right. But for me it allows for the greatest meaning of exeriencing life if that future is really not set in stone---but one of absolute potentiality----so when we are simultaneously existing in the future, we are not existing in any specific future, but rather a reality of all potential futures, and that this moment here and now represents the point of actuality----it is here where the potential futures are narrowed down. That 'this' becomes 'that.' Remove the T. And,... Darn it!!! It didn't work!!! :)
     

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