Quantum Observer Weirdness!

Discussion in 'Science and Technology' started by wooleeheron, Jun 2, 2018.

  1. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter HipForums Supporter

    Hey guys, I was horsing around at reddit getting kicked off bulletin boards by militant atheists and academics in the name of objectivity and freedom of speech, when I started to figure out how to solve for the Quantum Observer Effect and I thought I'd put my idea out there and see what people think.

    For awhile its been bugging me how to prove 42 really is as good an explanation as any other, and the pie-in-the-face research I've collected suggested it should be possible, but how to do it? Then I realized that the commonality in all the pies-in-the-face was that the jokes always went right over the heads of the researchers themselves, suggesting that the harder they searched for reality, the more nonsensical their behavior became to an outside observer. These are not stupid people, and have to ask yourself how they can possibly miss these jokes, with the simple explanation being they are determining their own reality, while reality and fiction are becoming less distinguishable to an outside observer.

    This could possibly explain the Simultaneity Paradox of Relativity as reflecting the fact that for the theory to remain useful at such extremes as the speed of light and a black hole, it must contain a glaring contradiction. The problem can also be thought of as expressing local and nonlocal effects in terms of the observer themselves. Local reality is required for us to impose error corrections and make more sense out of what, ultimately, makes no sense, but the observer's nonlocal reality as part of consensual reality is what ultimately determines what we perceive.
     
  2. Born25YearsTooLate

    Born25YearsTooLate Hunting the mighty whifflesnark

    what I got from this

    "reality is under no obligation to make sense, nor live down to our limited expectations."
     
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  3. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter HipForums Supporter

    Reality in this sense refers to your conscious perceptions of things. The researchers missed the jokes altogether, because they were consciously attempting to pin down reality, and when they came across a complete contradiction the fact it was a contradiction went right over their heads. Assuming we all create our own karmic universe, their collective unconscious could easily prevent them from seeing proof that life doesn't make sense. The more they demanded life make sense, the more fated they become to perceive life as making sense or being mysterious, rather than, nonsensical or fictitious.

    Note it also implies that what we perceive as low in entropy depends on the observer.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2018
  4. neonspectraltoast

    neonspectraltoast Senior Member

    When will we ever know when to give up looking for answers is the question. Another day, another theory down the hole. But indeed I would concur, on a whole this place fundamentally does not "make sense." There's no satisfactory rhyme or reason for this all.
     
  5. Tyrsonswood

    Tyrsonswood Senior Moment

    Nothing is real...
     
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  6. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter HipForums Supporter

    Look guys, saying nothing is real is about as useful as saying a vacuum sucks. I already know that nothing is real, including the two of you, so why bother telling me again?
     
  7. Tyrsonswood

    Tyrsonswood Senior Moment


    I didn't...

    I'm not real, so you made that post up all by yourself. You just put my name on it so you can blame someone else.
     
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  8. GLENGLEN

    GLENGLEN Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter


    LOL..... :D



    Cheers Glen.
     
  9. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter HipForums Supporter

    That explains it, I never make sense to myself.
     
  10. neonspectraltoast

    neonspectraltoast Senior Member

    I didn't even say nothing was real. What the fuck. On the contrary I think everything is very much real...I just don't think it makes sense. It's not normal...it's all abstract. I guess something that isn't real is the lives people have formed under the preconceived notion that everything is perfectly normal.
     
  11. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter HipForums Supporter

    Asking for 42 to make sense as a meaning for life, the universe, and everything is a bit silly.

    My thought is they are simply missing the jokes, the punch lines, because the collective unconscious is adapting their local reality to fit their expectations. If I want to focus on something I see, I can do that and their ability to miss the jokes this way can be considered the price of being able to pretend everything must make sense. By pretending, we can actually have a better chance of making sense out of things for ourselves.

    Its also related to issues of efficiency and entropy. Entropy and syntropy must both be expressed equally at all times, with this example demonstrating how syntropy can increase and decrease.
     
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  12. Mountain Valley Wolf

    Mountain Valley Wolf Senior Member

    I think there is some similarity here to how I reslove the problem. I argue that every point in the universe is subjective. So yes, I agree with your take on locality. I also agree that we each create our own reality. But I am a bit Kierkegaardian here in that we can, and do certainly allow others to create that reality for us. (We have to grab it by the balls to take control of our own reality (to grossly paraphrase Kierkegaard).) This is where we are starting to move towards the nonlocal realm. In fact, the universe already has its ongoing trends in place---entropy, for example. Therefore to truly control our own reality, we have to have a strong enough conviction---and faith in our ability to do so, if you will----in order to offset all those forces and trends in place. The good thing is that your reality is subjective to you, and therefore you should be able to have a stronger ability to change it based upon your own individual locality
    than anyone or anything else. To go back to Kiekergaard, however, you have to make that choice yourself.

    Now here is the thing----time does not exist in a physical sense, or in the way that we understand it to. Only the present has physical existence----everything else---the past, the future---is within the mind. And your mind is nonphysical and therefore transcends physicality so it can understand aprevious reality that no longer exists. Now this, by itself, does not solve the problem of simulataneity. From a physical standpoint, if you see a star 400 light years away, that star does not exist in your physical present. It may exist in the same physical present, or it may be blown to bits in that same physical present. But all that exists within your physical present is photons hitting atoms within the vision cells of your eyes, and neurons registering previously received photons in the vision center of your brain. Because your reality is intensely localized. But the present lasts for only the briefest moment, and then it no longer exists---a new present however exists---but physically nothing else. All through the universe, only that same present exists, and any point anywhere in that universe can only experience that point, because anything beyond that requires time that does not physically exist. The subjectivity of physicality is therefore intensely defined by the speed of light in a sublight context.

    So we have a dualism here---physical existence which represents the Now (what I refer to as the Quantum Now) and which only exists for the briefest possible time, and which is the only physical thing that exists. And a non-physical reality experienced at the speed of light. It is here that light, 400 years away, leaves that star and reaches your eye simultaneously, and that this same light, as a wave exists simultaneously in every point in between. The key word is wave-----because this is the superpositioned reality of the wave-field---the 4th dimension. It is timeless, but since we only experience the present, we understand the 4th dimension as time. We could say that it represents all time, but to have all time in one place is the same as having no specific time, therefore, no time, or timeless. Now, you might say---well that means all past, present, and future is there, and therefore everything is already predetermined. How can one create one's own reality if everything is predetermined?

    Here is the thing, if everything is superpositioned, then that is saying that it is in every possible place, and every possible time. It is in all infinite positions simultaneously. In other words, there is no new place for it to go to, and no new time for it to go to. Yet it is not simply in a finite state, but an infinite state. Therefore the 4th dimension represents absolute potentiality (and absolute nonlocality). Therefore all potential futures exist in the 4th dimension---not in a physical sense, because physically only the present exists. It exists in potentiality. The physical then represents actuality, and we have the potential to shape that, or let it be shaped for us.

    The implications here is that everything locally happens based on phenomena, and therefore there really is no need for a 3 dimensional physicality---in fact, subjectively it is not 3 dimensional. Subjectively it is very 1 dimensional, because the moment you are trying to incorporate something 1 photon distance away, you are incorporating time, since time is defined in terms of the speed of light. Since a photon is massless, then you are talking a distance so small that it is abstract, and not even a distance, but the next moment (i.e. light-distance). Therefore the speed of light provides the perception of 3-dimensionality. That star 400 light years away, did not produce locally for 400 years and with a 400 year lag ever since. But the light, being superpositioned, is already here! But it will only appear in the physical sense based on the speed of light, which places it 400 light years away. Entangled particles, on the other hand, appear in each physical moment together (from their superpositioned reality) so they don't need to use the speed of light to communicate, or maintain entanglement. They could be 400 light years away from each other, but the information is already there, and they both use it in the same now.

    We see this as a duality because we look at it objectively---as a subjective observer looking out at the physical universe. But if we bring mind into the picture, then the duality starts to become a multiplicity.
     
  13. Mountain Valley Wolf

    Mountain Valley Wolf Senior Member

    ^ At least, that's how I explain it with my Archephenomenalism.
     
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  14. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed and Confused Staff Member Super Moderator

    The Jabberwock

    ’Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
    Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
    All mimsy were the borogoves,
    And the mome raths outgrabe.

    “Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
    The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
    Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
    The frumious Bandersnatch!”

    He took his vorpal sword in hand:
    Long time the manxome foe he sought—
    So rested he by the Tumtum tree,
    And stood awhile in thought.

    And as in uffish thought he stood,
    The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame,
    Came whiffling through the tulgey wood,
    And burbled as it came!

    One, two! One, two! And through and through
    The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
    He left it dead, and with its head
    He went galumphing back.

    “And hast thou slain the Jabberwock?
    Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
    O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!”
    He chortled in his joy.

    ’Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
    Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
    All mimsy were the borogoves,
    And the mome raths outgrabe.

    Lewis Carroll, 1871​
     
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  15. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter HipForums Supporter

    Assuming 42 really is as good an explanation as any other, then the simple explanation is that either the lowest possible energy state or the Two Faces of Janus have to be expressed at all times. An outside observer sees the humor and laughs, expressing the lowest possible energy state, while those conducting the experiment must perceive the Two Faces of Janus as having no humanly discernable content. Because they contain so little content, their identity becomes more context dependent and the question here is how does it become more context dependent?
     
  16. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed and Confused Staff Member Super Moderator

    [​IMG]
     
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  17. juggawatta

    juggawatta Love

    What's silly isn't silly, it's pure crazy making madness. I have the absolute knowledge, the real truth, and I give it freely to anyone but they can't believe or accept what I say. Enter into hopeless despair and wasteland, begin to seek the promises of death.

    Rest in peace! To want not, have not, go not, do not, think not, feel not, know not, be not. Oh, sweet relief.

    Sigh. So, as we have been told and have accepted as a fact of truth an ancient supercomputer produced 42. It's then left open for translation and a percentage of minds have a go at it while there are others unknowing and unaware that any of these things exist at all. Does 42 apply to the unknowing? Yes. And they'll either miss out or get lucky, if they learn or don't learn.

    I could tell you the truth in what it means but people end up hating and rejecting me instead of loving me as I so desire. Absent their love, I begin to court death.

    Death! Come to me! Come to me at once! Take me to the land of Nothing. I adore you...
     
  18. juggawatta

    juggawatta Love

    No, I'm sorry but that is not true. I am sitting in a house that is 96 years older than me. History exists in the present reality. Future exists as well, we simply haven't gotten there yet. But it exists and is waiting for us as each day we manifest that which lies in wait.
     
  19. Mountain Valley Wolf

    Mountain Valley Wolf Senior Member

    Yes, you are correct---everything has history---it is encoded into the quantum information that is manifesting all the particles present in your 96 year old house in this very moment, for example. But in this very moment, nothing of that house exists but those very particles. And the future is nothing but potential. Let's say that you plan to take a wall out of the house to expand one of the rooms. In this moment the wall is manifesting, and the idea that it will be removed is only a potential---there is no physical reality to that. In the past that same wall has probably had wall paper, or it has been painted several different colors, but none of that is a physical reality right now, the wall only exists as it is now.

    Now let's say that there actually is a future day that you tear that wall down. The wall as it was in the past no longer exists. The only physical existence is the house at that point without that wall.
     
  20. juggawatta

    juggawatta Love

    If the wall is destined to take on a specific form it knows when to do so and nothing can prevent it from happening, just as nothing can prevent the birth of a full term fetus in which case, the particles of the wall know (in the timeless sense of knowing) that after the wall has been white, blue, papered, and before the portrait to be hung can be hung, it must take the form of oil stained during that fit of rage in the 90's.
     

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