Pushing conspiracy theory? Why?

OK, Balbaus, I heard your point on theories being opinion/supposition etc., and agree that alot of people here are undereducated on the things they preach. That is not to say that they don't have a point worth considering. For example, opinions on 9/11 and the US being behind them have many well documented facts supporting these theories in independant media. Many congressmen themselves have had grounds to bring up serious allegations before the Senate. There are many questions left unanswered about the events of that day, too many to generalize. And, I myself don't want to generalize and claim to defend all conspiracy theories. But what I was saying is that many ideas are passed off as conspiracy theories which are actually well-documented. For example, the US government has continually lied and changed their story regarding 9/11. To know this you need only pay attention to what they say. It doesn't make sense. In this modern day of intelligence, there is no way they could not have known that those attacks were imminent. Vladmir Putin said himself that he personally sent warnings of the attacks to the president. Many other countries have made similar claims, only to find that they were ignored, or met with disinterest by the US gov. There are undeniable holes in the Kean commissions report on 9/11 and questionable conclusions. The evidence definately suggests a conspiracy in the highest form of the US gov. and not limited to the US gov. This evidence is inconclusive. I have no solution to it myself. But that does not mean it should not be discussed for all to consider.

I agree that many claims on this forum are unfounded and preachy. I myslef started a thread on the subject that unless you have seen it with your own eyes, you don't know. No one can be trusted. There is as much real reason to doubt these theories as to believe them, and the ignorance of all of you is beyond you. But I would not stop you from speaking your mind and opinions for anything.

 

whether you believe the concpiracy theories or not, how would a real investigation by the international criminal court hurt? if there is nothing to hide then the results will show that, then the liberals will have nothing to base their theories on and it will shut them up. but if it was an implosion, even if its a small chance that it was, we need to know. i think conservatives and liberals should be asking for an investigation instead of assuming it was one way or the other. anyone with some common sence should know that the 911 commision is not legitamate. it was organized by congress and approved by bush. i read the report, it was just regergitating everything the media had already covered and expanding it into 30-some pages. an investigation by the icc would be way more reliable than the 911 commision

 

Or an independant FROM THE GOVERNMENT commission by CREDIBLE people instead of people with tainted pasts and conflicts of interest.

 

That's the wonder of conspiracy theories - no-one is outside the grasp of the Lizard-Men, so anyone who investigates and finds that it's bollocks (i.e. every independant investigator) is 'clearly' a tool of the illuminati. Clever eh?

 

Ok lets take 9/11

My view is that the Bush admin were negligent in their behaviour and had an agenda and worldview that didn’t help them in seeing (or dealing with) such threats.

I think they are opportunists and cynically used the deaths of the people in the twin towers to advance an agenda that had nothing to do with that action and had nothing to do with decreasing the thread of future terrorist actions from the same sources.

Others have accuse them of orchestrating the attack, some claim it was the illuminati or Jewish bankers or seven-foot lizards or aliens or whatever.

I don’t want such people as Bush et al in power and I’m sure that the conspiracy theorists don’t want the illuminati or Jewish bankers or seven-foot lizards or aliens to have power either.

The forums are littered with what I think could or should be done and I’m active in my own country’s politics working to bring about change.

What I’m asking the Conspiracy theorists is, from their viewpoint what is to be done and what could make their societies better?

**

If you are against the Bush Admin (and the present political workings of the US) because you think they are a bunch of political wankers or seven –foot lizards from the planet Zog, at some point don’t you have to ask yourself – what can be done to make things better?

 

These are good points, but,

It seems, from this statement, that any alternate theory to what you hear from newspapers or nightly news is simply thrown into "conspiracy theories" without serious research into all sides of the subject.

Here you tie any reasonable arguements to an obviously absurd bit of disinformation, never actually considering the issue at hand.
I personally think the Reptilian Agenda, Area 51, and other such theories are bogus and spread by people purposely to discredit and hide history.

This is true, though I think it's largely a denial statement that can be used by both sides of the arguement. However, if you look into things, JFK for example, at least one member of the Warren Commision, Senator John Sherman Cooper, was in a Skull and Bones chapter, the fraternity of The Elite.
It's sort of like this:
I'm going to burn down your house, then I'm going to send in my friend, who is a fire inspector, to tell you the fire started because of a gas leak.
Alright, peace.
K.

PS, Balbus, I've answered your question many times.

 

It's all so brilliantly circular! I love how this works. Every peice of conspiracy-nut reasoning is dependant on some other conspiracy-nut fact, and so on. Look:

> was in a Skull and Bones chapter, the fraternity of The Elite

For the information that such-and-such was in S&B to have any weight, we rely on the extra information, that S&B is 'the fraternity of The Elite'. We also rely on the assumption that 'The Elite' is an organization of the type the conspiracy nut claims it to be.

The fact that a member of a comittee was in a certain frat means absolutely nothing, but by throwing in a bogus (and pointlessly general) statment about 'the fraternity of The Elite', he tries to give meaning to a meaningless, random fact.

Did you know, that *four* members or the warren commission were wearing BLUE SUITS? Those suits are THE SUIT OF THE EL33T.

This is how these nuts proceed; they find one fact, then they give it meaning by inventing or exagerating connexions to and from that fact, and then do the same to all those related facts. This is how they're able to connect such widely spread events and situations so readily.

A good comparison: you may remember The Bible Code. Maybe it was just a U.K. thing; I don't know. But anyway, this bloke claimed he'd discovered a special code in the bible, that allowed him to predict things and so forth. He found the second world war, kennedy, space shuttle, blah blah blah - the usual prophesy nonsense. The method was a kind of textual messing around, where he read characters in diagonal lines and so on, and claimed to find meaning.

Someone debunked him by writing a computer program to find these 'prophesies', and applied it to a bunch of other books, with pretty much the same results. I.e. if you take any large enough book, you can use this silly trick to find anything you want in it.

In the same way, if you take any suffficiently large body of facts, then you can find these bullshit connexions and co-incidences, and if you publish only those co-incidental facts, and not all the other bullshit you waded through to find it, it looks interesting and meaningful, but actually it's just a simple trick.

 

read my posts

 

eh, sadly facts are subjective too, people like Pressed Rat choose to believe the worst about every subject and will eat alive any "fact" that supports his beliefs. I on the other hand think all these theories are whacko, and disregard all thse made up facts out of hand, since they can never be traced back to sources I consider reliable. One thing Jello Biafra taught me, is anyone can make bullshit sound believable. now who is right, Rat or me? you decision will be completely based on your whether you believe these things or not.

 

solo: what? why would I want to do that? <shudders>

 

why not?

 

Kblaze

"Balbus, I've answered your question many times"

Well please tell me where?

As far as I can tell you have posted six times in this thread the only one that goes anyway toward answering the question – what do we do – was

"get the knowledge out, get enough people fed up, march on the white house or some ish, rub the proof in their faces, acknowledge to them they have no power over us politiclly or any other way, organize some confrenece or some junk, reorganize government.
or some crap"

Exactly "Or some crap" I mean its not exactly an eloquent statement of intent or a very well thought out set of policies.

I didn’t answer at the time because it had been covered in other places and because it was, well a bit dumb. But since you seem to think it was a reasonable reply I will reply to it.

**

"march on the white house or some ish"

Isn’t the man in the White House just a tool of the Illuminati/bankers/lizards? If I’ve been following the conspiracy theory properly isn’t there a shadow government? What good would it do to attack the White House?

And Rat claims that this powerful conspiracy would corrupt any organisation set up to counter it so how would you organise this take over?

Is the fact that you are contemplating the violent overthrow of the US government because you cannot get what you want through democratic means?

"rub the proof in their faces"

What proof? As has been pointed out time and again the conspiracy theories being presented here are based on supposition, innuendo and opinion, the very reason why people argue is that there is no proof only viewpoint.

"acknowledge to them they have no power over us politiclly"

Please explain, in a democracy these people are meant to be representatives of the people are you saying that your revolution would not be democratic? That only the believers would be allowed power?

"organize some confrenece or some junk, reorganize government."

That is you manifesto for a better future? How do you stop the shadow government corrupting the conferences, manipulating the types of reforms?

**

No sorry Kblaze this isn’t really an answer to the question, it has too many holes and is too vague to be taken seriously.

 

Anyway Kblaze is a perfect example of just what I’m taking about -

“JFK for example, at least one member of the Warren Commision, Senator John Sherman Cooper, was in a Skull and Bones chapter, the fraternity of The Elite”

These conspiracy theorists become so rapped up in connecting small innocuous details and coincidences into something vast and which they present as ‘proof’ of their theory, that they spare little time to what is to be done. Notice how Kblaze can give chapter and verse on Senator John Sherman Cooper but when it comes to what actions to take make things better he becomes vague in the extreme (“some crap”, “some junk”). Rat is the same he can cut and paste vast swaths of bunkum but ask him to explain what is to be done and he’s vague or silent.

That is my fear, conspiracy theorists can become so distracted by building wilder and wilder connections out of supposition innuendo and opinion that they forget to be involved in the real world, and in time the conspiracy theory becomes their reality and they judge everything by it. In the end they can see nothing or understand nothing except in it’s terms.

It’s sad really, we really should feel sorry for them.

 

Dude, okay,
I'm responding to your and Jim's posts, it should be done by tomorrow,
but for now,
yeah, that answer was very vague, i have more detailed explanations on how i'd like society to be run, and keep in mind, i do not call myself a conspiracy theorist nor do I absolutely subscribe to these views; I wrote my previous post to shed a little light on a subject that's been bogged down by accusations of lizard men (which, by the way, I've only heard come from you guys)
I find it funny how I'm suddenly judged to be a "conspiracy nut"
you guys are the ones who jump to conclusions too fast. if any of you were around me in person you would never expect that from me.
and that jfk example was just a quick one off the top of my head.
Chapter and verse? Wilder and wilder? I'm toning it down a bit here, that's what the point was, to get the empasis off this lizard-men-evasion-arguement.
Thanks, I'll be back in a bit.

PS, when i said The Elite, that's the word i use to refer to the money makers and ultra rich who you associate with lizard men and illuminati.
see i'm actually trying to have an honest debate here and a mature discussion, you have to bring insults into it, saying you should feel sorry for us. thats whats really pathetic.

 

Alright, I apologize for the delays, don't get your panties in a bunch.

I love how this works: you can't debate or reason without calling people nuts. That's seriously half of what's in your post is accusing people of being crazy, while your posts have no true substance.
May I say again I don't back these theories concretely, I don't have all the facts, this is just a possibility,
Just as it is a possibility that members of the rich and powerful visit Bohemian Grove and partake in a ritual burning a human in effigy that represents conscience and caring to a giant stone owl named Molech who is a Caananite Deity to whom children were sacrificed; the ritual is called The Cremation Of Care, as in, the rich and powerful don't care about us, their feudal serfs, their cattle, you and me, Joe Blow.
PS, Molech is also on the upper right corner of your $1 bill by the way, up by the one, he's very tiny in the corner, check with a magnifying glass.
Oh now wait, that wasn't possablity, everything I just wrote happens.

What do you mean, for the info to have weight?
These are admitted facts.
By "The Elite" I mean ultra rich and powerful whose names we probably don't even know, who own most of the corporations our money goes to, who makes deals with government to take your private property, I could mention Rothschild, Rockefeller, Morgan...I call them The Elite, as GWB has, because it is a more realistic term for these real people, that doesn't associate them with Lizards. Unless your Jim and Balbus.
Here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_and_Bones
Both presidential candidates of 04 were in this frat, a frat that picks something like 32 (if that much) members a year out of every citizen in the USA, what a coincidence that Kerry and Bush are members, are cousins (yes, blood cousins), and they both dodge questions about it.
This fraternity is made for people like Bush, who go to Yale, (it is painfully obvious that man can't have an IQ above 100,) but they get into these colleges from their family and friends who have connections so they have a good clean record, and while here they train and study on what it takes to run companies, destroy others, basically how to take over; it prepares them for life as a member of The Elite, how to deal with mass public through media mind numbing, I bet there's all sorts of lessons with fun stuff like global domination, which is not that far fetched of an idea itself, considering they already have it through media and government and money.

Here again you simply spin the issue into "conspiracy nuts" instead of looking at the facts that people, who were former members of skull and bones, were in a commision that concluded JFK was shot by a lone oswald. If you believe that then "say la ve" (sp) but good god, youd believe 2+2=5 if the government told you. And marijuana kills.

Yeah I've heard of the bible code, but yea I figure that will work with any book. So I personally see this comparison as invalid because the bible code is not as factual as this, ie, you can't see it happening like you can with globalist agenda (problem reaction solution: why is the media rabid with missing people reports? rfid chips are on the way, once the gov uses the media to trick you into thinking you need it.)
If there's other facts that cancel out the "coincidences" of the members and workings of the Elite, please, show them to me.
Peace.

 

This was a quick summeray. The truth is, I don't have a strict plan for what we'd do if these things were true. I would guess that those who know would meet and plan from there, keeping watchful eyes out for intruders.


"march on the white house or some ish"

first of all, it is not a fact I want a violent overthrow of the US gov.
That's you spinning. Stop that.
But yes I do think democratic means limit us as a species.

"rub the proof in their faces"

I suppose scientific fact is supposition and innuendo, like at what temperature jet fuel burns and steel melts, which does not compute for the collapse of the WTC, and many demoltion experts, fire fighters, police, citizens, have stated that there were bombs going off in the building. You can even see them happening.
Watch Loose Change, it is the best 9/11 film I have ever seen.
http://http://www.prisonplanet.tv/articles/july2005/150705loosechange.htm
watch the free sample.

"acknowledge to them they have no power over us politiclly"

Now we're getting into my personall politics and I say,
I think it is absolutely pathetic when folks talk about society, and they say "who would control"? "Who would have power?"
Guess what? YOU have the power. Control yourself goddammit. I don't want a government, at all, because any government outside me over myself and you over yourself is bogus. No arguement you can make can change the fact that any government is a concept and a mental crutch. Governments don't even exist. There's men in suits who are believed to have fairy-tale powers of control. Not over me. Not over you, either. You control yourself and always have. Government is not real; it is a con people use to get you to give them power.

"organize some confrenece or some junk, reorganize government."

Yup, that's it, that's the entire manifesto.

To stop the reforms, there are far more actual people than the elite. Infact, if they were outed, I wouldn't want to publicly kill them or anything, instead, I would point and laugh and let them keep living, because anywhere they'd go people would throw food at them and nonstop aggrivation and probably somebody crazier than me would kill them, if they didn't retreat on some island where they can all boss eachother around and jack eachother off. They're jokers. I feel bad for them.

Really, though, a manifesto for a better future is coming, and keep criticizing because I want to cover every viewpoint.
Thanks.

 

And finally,

Notice how you ignore the facts, chapter and verse.
Making things better, I am actually very vivd in my descriptions, because I have my own ideas about society. As far as The Elite goes, my "some junk" or "some crap" was used because, since it is not a concrete idea yet, it is some junk or crap.
The arguemnt provided in this post was invalid. Here, you are on the verge of admitting that there are connections within S and B, the ultra rich, and government. You certainly didn't disprove it, instead you switch the topic to smaller things like my exact wording on revolution.

Balbus and Jim are Masters of Spin.

 

What do we do?
We work towards a society that doesn't need money.
http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101839
Combined with:
http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99870

 

Speak, brother.

 

Who, me? Nah, I've said all that's necessary on those two links. Any questions, fire away.
"Speak"
That's like when you're just sitting in silence and someone says:"What do you think?" and you're like, "about what?" and they're like, "I dunno, just what do you think?" And then you have to try and think of something interesting to say. I can't handle the pressure dude.
You haven't said anything on either of those links Kevin.