Psychedelic Bump XXI

I think one very important thing to keep in mind when talking about meditation & psychedelics is that they achieve their effects through very different means.

All meditative practices are designed to do one main thing, allow you to alter the frequency, amplitude and dominance of different brain waves. Through meditation a person can learn to, at will, alter their brain wave activity and thereby achieve an "altered state" though I am reluctant to use that term in relation to meditative states of awareness.

Psychedelic substances alter our perceptive and cognitive functioning through chemical means, not altering brain-wave activity.
I'm sure there is some alteration of brain-wave activity with psychedelics, but that is not the predominant reason for their effects.
This is an area that is still undergoing research with a lot of ??? still remaining.

The benefit of learning/maintaining meditative states is there have been many health benefits related to meditation and it is becoming more prominent in the health care field because the promotion of certain brain wave activity also has an effect on healing and the immune system.
The benefits of meditation are always available and can be long term.

Psychedelics also provide many benefits for the individual who is open to what they may show. But those benefits are often short lived and do not often continue beyond the initial experience unless actively fostered.

I guess my point is that meditation and meditative states can be achieved and maintained with benefits to some degree throughout ones daily life, psychedelics not so much.

They are not the same thing at all and do not lead to the same conclusion.

Then someone mentioned prayer and glossolalia.
Now are we talking Catholic rosary or prayer as Jesus instructed. Prayer that Jesus encouraged was NOT meditative prayer, actually he admonished his followers to avoid "vain repetitions", but that's a topic for another thread.

Glossolalia, where to categorize this phenomena?
I's not mediation by a long shot, it can be prayerful, it can be relaxing and "freeing", it does not posses any type of psychedelic type of experiential component.
What it does seem to do is (for me) is put me in a space of being able to succinctly understand certain issues in life and how they directly relate to me and how/why I can/should make a change. But it proceeds in a question-answer type exchange. I will be "praying" and focused on some issue, and shortly answers will "come" to me. Often they are not what I want to hear, but are the reality.

Other times it has been exactly like in the Bible, a message or prophetic word spoken by one person and interpreted by another.

Are they originating from outside of me?
Is it just that I am in a more receptive, non-judgmental state?
Is it aliens?
Is it like the Bible says, the Holy Spirit?

Not 100% certain, but have been wondering about it for over 30 years now.

Anyone else here "speak in tongues"?

But I will say having experienced all of the above, speaking in tongues is NOTHING at all like these other experiences.

 

As far as long-lasting psychedelic changes or benefits, I believe that, while I act essentially as I would, I am able to have a much better attitude since taking psychedelics.

I haven't tripped in quite a while now. But I still don't feel how I did. Not in a way that I can even sum up. But in a positive way.

And I don't see it as a point "against" psychedelics that sometimes they must be used over, to gain great benefits.

I don't see them as systems that can be pitted against one another.

 

Certainly a psychedelic experience is a life changing event, for good or ill.
I did not mean to suggest that one is superior to the other, anyone familiar with me knows that I view all states as a spectrum and all states of awareness are of equal worth and merit.
My point is that the two are very different and do not necessarily lead to the same conclusion.
One can be maintained relativity easily with training, whereas the other requires the ingestion of a substance and maintaining the mindset achieved requires conscious effort more so than meditative states.
I actually go into a very deep, relaxed meditative state within minutes of sitting in a dentist chair.
That is something I worked at consciously at first, now it is an automatic response. That is the type of thing I am referring to. I have had lot's of psychedelic experiences, but I have as of yet not been able to self-induce that specific state like I can meditative states.
The "psychedelic mindset" if you will, can be fostered and "learned" so that an individual is keenly aware of the same sort of perceptions (cognitive, not sensory) during normal waking consciousness.

The mindset can be achieved sans psychedelic substances, but the visual, auditory, sensory effects I doubt can be mimicked.

This is of course based on my personal experience, your mileage may vary.

 

Yes, I generally agree with all of that.

 

your gonna have to explain this breaking your chest instantly part.. Many meditation techniques involve holding the breath and tightening the chest. its not necessary to press on the chest or having someone else press on it for you..
heres some breathing mediation exercise that dont call for chest tightening ..
http://zatma.org/Dharma/zbohy/Literature/AssaultSummit/dharana.html

and cannabis is a far ways from next to harmless..

 

Great discussion. Well-said, NG.

 

Awesome link orison.
I was just reading about breathing exercises contained in martial arts and found something very interesting, may have to do with chest compression. I don't have a link as its a book I have saved in my Dropbox but it discusses how breathing out and sucking the stomach in you want to focus on pushing all your organs together so that they are one? Visualize them coming closer and closer together or something...

 

We've NEVER seen any documented effects of actual cancer or anything like that from pot smoke, and they've tried plenty. Your lugs fill up with crap, because you're inhaling a bunch of crap. But it's not caustic, and nowhere near as damaging. There's a few people, literally a few, who have managed to get emphasema from pot smoke.... it causes damage, but not damage that... hurts anything.

About breaking things in your chest, I meant holding your breath and having someone give you CPR type chest compressions like writer described... it sounded injurious, to me personally.

 

:2thumbsup: Spot on.

Ya you guys got off in two directions. Disiplined breathing work vs head rushes. We used to call it the knock out game. It doesn't need 'compressions' or anything like that. One hyperventelates, bending over, the other gives him a big bear hug from behind, fist pressed against your sternum. I'm not sure the exact physiology but have always thought it was similar to taking too many vertical G's. The blood rushes from your brain momentarily, and you just buckle to the floor.
Maybe someone knows more about the physiology but it doesn't include breaking things in your chest.

 

sure they can! just play the knock out game. (don't die!!)


but really, it just seems like a terrible idea, and potentially very dangerous (like a lot of things kids do). but maybe the media tricked me and it's not as bad as they said on the news.


roor, or voyage, got any links to data that supports the claim that pot smoke is next to harmless? that would really help easy my struggle with pot smoker's guilt. ...and it'd be easier than quitting smoking :sifone:

 

Common sense folks. Inhaling smoke of any type is not good for you. Your lungs were not designed for handling smoke.
The incidence of emphysema, bronchitis, and other related respiratory illness' do occur with pot smoke as well, but not as frequently.

Now here is the important thing, marijuana smoke is NOT cancerous. It is not the act of smoking that causes cancer, but micro-cellular changes due to bio-chemical interactions with a carcinogen that causes cells to multiply out of control.
Nicotine and other chemicals in tobacco smoke are very carcinogenic. Thus far no carcinogens have been found in marijuana smoke, or what is present is balanced by the presence of CBD and CBN, the two chemicals in marijuana that are thought to inhibit cancer cell growth.
In one 15 year study of tobacco smokers, pot smokers, and those who smoked both, the incidence of emphysema and similar were present in all 3 groups, with tobacco/pot smokers taking the lead, then straight tobacco, then pot.
The most interesting thing I remember from this was that both tobacco and marijuana cause the same types of micro-cellular damage that can lead to cancerous cells developing, but the cells of pot smokers never go through a final stage or something and remain non-cancerous. The finding as well as others, both in-vitro and in-vivo, have shown that cannabinoids do inhibit cancerous cell growth. Both in a preventive manner and also combating existing cancers. There is also new (within few years) research that suggests that cannabis causes cancer cells to basically commit suicide.


Google is your friend, Pork

 

....Really? I never would have started smoking pot if I hadn't known that it doesn't cause cancer

Originally I tried not to smoke so much, on account of smoking still obviously being bad.

Then I gave up on that..... I've never seen someone with an oxygen tank from pot smoking. Maybe people do it, but I think you have to be pretty stupid. A pack of cigarettes has like an ounce of highly cancerous caustic shit in it, and many people smoke one every DAY. A heavy pot smoker might smoke 1-4 GRAMS of clean, non-adulterated pot daily, without the cancerous shit and with natural chemicals that fight cancer.

Just because they both involve smoking things doesn't mean you can compare them, that's like comparing croquet and football, because both use balls. Or spaceflight and scuba diving, because they both use artificial oxygen supplies.

It's just a totally different beast. I'd be willing to bet that one welding session is MUCH more harmful than one pot smoking session, based on how both (when I did either) made my lungs feel.

 

This seemed to contradict assumptions made after some studies, like those from Dale Gieringer et al., which found that 118 carcinogens were produced when marijuana underwent combustion, and two carcinogens {2-Methyl-2, 4(2H-1-benzopyran-5-ol) & 5-[Acetyl benz[e]azulene-3,8-dione} formed when marijuana underwent vaporization with the Volcano Vaporizer.[21][22] To help explain this seemingly chemical proof of carcinogenicity inherent in the process of combustion, Tashkin noted that "one possible explanation for the new findings, he said, is that THC, a chemical in marijuana smoke, may encourage aging cells to die earlier and therefore be less likely to undergo cancerous transformation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis-associated_respiratory_disease

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpbS00RNZhY"]You can't put anything on the Internet that's not true - YouTube

 

Bump for 1 hit of the new sheet Writer and I got

 

Bump for wanting to trip so so So SO BAD!
In particular, I want to try 4acodmt for the first time!
I think shrooms are coming arou d soon though

 

What is the dosage per tab?

Have a nice trip :sunny:

 

writer said in another thread that they are supposed to be 120 ug.

let us know how it goes!:daisy:


noxious, my job is in a science lab, so i have to wade through the literature for that...it's not the 1st thing i'd like to do when i'm home
do you have a link got that study or just stating it from memory?

roor, i started smoking when i was 16-17, first tried it at 14. i didn't research a lot about weed. a few of my extended family members toke, so it seemed like not a big deal, and seemed more fun and not as unhealthy as smoking cigs.

i've heard about studies that some cannabinoids stop tumor growth, but was never sure about the amounts used, etc...is it relevant to pot smoking?

i got a vaporizer, but i still use my bong daily. i'm not too worried about it, but sometimes i get that pot-smoker's guilt i mentioned.

 

and then there is those that smoke tobacco soon after smoking cannabis.. which I can never understand. therefore no way of knowing if smoking whatever caused their cancers ects..

 

Greetings hipforums! In my last posts I talked about seeing Tame Impala, but I went sober since I had to drive. Tame Impala impressed me a lot, I feel very fortunate to have seen em. There was a group of guys around my age I witnessed share a batch of mushrooms, they certainly seemed to have a good time. and..

Bumpin for 20mg o 2C-B in a few hours. Art, music, warm bubble bath, and candles. Gaaaah I'm so excited!

 

Very cool. Nice to see this journey!