Psychedelic Bump XVII

As of now, I do believe psychedelics induce hallucinations or false visions. Hallucinations tend to occur more frequently at higher dose ranges and/or more direct ROA's like with DMT. I don't see how then that conclusion follows that I think any alteration to reality is a degraded state, seems like a rather fallacious jump in reasoning.

For instance, stimulants speed up the processing of baseline functioning, therefore altering it yet I would consider that an enhanced state. Psychedelics can produce an enhanced state as well but there seems to be a point where the Nervous-system is trying to maintain autonomic and other regulatory functioning and being overloaded with sensory information from the psychedelic(s) as well and it causes a higher rate of miscues in perceptual processing. So I don't think our nervous system is an ideal mechanism for apprehending reality, instances of severe mental disorders or retardations can show that but by and large it's pretty damn efficient .

 

Fair enough, GB. Bear in mind, in the post you are responding to, I did admit that psychedelics can induce hallucinations. When I spoke of "apprehending reality" I didn't merely mean the base information of our material environment. Our nervous systems are clearly so-modeled as to apprehend these, because doing so contributes to food-gathering, predator detection, and long-term survival. On the other hand, apprehension of spiritual realities, other dimensions, etc, which posed no biological selective advantage may well have been selected against, leaving us with a very limited capability to apprehend reality. Many of the filters on our perception are not merely physiological in our sense organs, but also come in the form of brain/mind filters that determine things like "what's important," "what's relevant," "what is foreground/background, what is noise" etc etc. I think the elimination of these filters can produce a clearer (although perhaps less-functional) understanding of reality; this is the power I ascribe to psychedelics.

Btw, Chris, I personally would not recommend your mom read "The Psychedelic Experience." It is NOT introductory-level in fact it is damned esoteric. Quite a lot of far-out stuff in there that a conservative matron would probably consider weird and druggie.

 

Ooo I feel da luv. I realize you said that psychedelics can cause hallucinations but then you went on to essentially say that if you believe psychedelics cause hallucinations (if you're making a discrepancy between false vision and hallucination please clarify) than you view it as a degraded state. I don't get that jump in logic.

As far as the rest of this I hear you but it says "In god we trust" on the back of my dollar bill so I'm not sure what I think about spiritual concepts having been selected against.

 

Gb and Raga, I dig it.

 

last night i showed her one of the articles by Alan Watts in that link you gave me, i also showed her the LSD vault on erowid, she enjoyed reading some Trip Reports though she commented "i don't trust these Americans, aren't there Scottish ones " haha, don't worry i love you guys :sunny:

First of i showed her this vid, porkstock posted it a while back it's been one of my favs since

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuDZpiyhszY&list=FLCG5jQgRt2qVfmNDg5zuXUA&index=12&feature=plpp_video"]1950's Experiment L.S.D (Chris Crespo) - YouTube

By the end of the night she said something along these lines...."Very interesting, i'll need to read more, i thought it was just pretty colours and it's not just kids that are doing it, these are normal people"

What a result eh lol

 

Heya GB,
You're right, I made some errors/conflations with my terminology. I was being intellectually lazy!

I guess what I meant to say is that sometimes the perceptual shifts that occur on psychedelics sometimes bring one closer to reality (e.g. undercutting our own bullshit and letting us "see it like it is"). When the changes are cerebral in nature (a mental experience) we often recognize the truth in them. To the extent that that is true, I have sometimes wondered/speculated whether the changes in sensory perception might also represent a perceptual shift, apprehension of another perspective or another version of reality, rather than necessarily being LESS correct or LESS real than everyday perception. I, and I'm sure others, have felt that the visuals witnessed on psych's are more about "noticing" things that are always there. I have no experience with full breakthrough trips like DMT, but it seems at least POSSIBLE that the same holds true for them. Just possible.

Put another way: the notion that the things witnessed under the influence of psych's are LESS real than the reality apprehended while sober is, as far as I'm concerned, an unproven assumption, not a confirmed fact. That assumption carries certain implications that we should be careful to examine.

Hahaha! Good point, man!

 

Overall I agree with this and I would not have continued to explore psychedelics as long as I have if I didn't ascribe to a similar viewpoint. I also think you're correct in assessing that the same holds true for DMT, but I also perceive hallucinatory phenomena at times on psychedelics which I don't feel is always there and I don't associate it with a higher/different dimension either. Regardless, I still discover a lot of valuable lessons, concepts, material from the majority of my psychedelic experiences.

 

I personally don't believe in the idea of hallucinations. Our brain is a filter that only allows in energies vibrating at certain frequencies. Psychedelics open this filter up and allows many more frequencies. The high frequencies can be interpretated as angels, god, bliss or just colorful energies, this is based on the conscious/unconscious belief systems of the individual and the culture. The lower fequncies will have the opposite effect. The individual generates the imagery. You can even look past the imagery and focus on just the feelings.

 

Well I've perceived worms crawling on me on 5 grams of mushrooms, sentinels in the sky monitoring my room on mdpv binge, read many numerous datura reports of people talking to friends who are not there and smoking imaginary cigarettes. Those all represent hallucinations to me.

 

I can agree with this. Psychedelics seem to hinder our mental conditionings.

I made an awesome pizza today at work. Thin crust with Ranch + Ranch Bacon spread, no sauce, double cheese, and extra pepperoni. Butter on the crusts, and parmesan on the top.
I'm a skinny kid though. And I bought fruit and veggies afterwards.

 

I can only speak from personal experience. The energies within me get amplified on psychedelics and can take various forms of imagery, I don't call these hallucinations. These energies are their for me to accept and become more whole.

Or I find I can tune into certain fequencies and have have an experience on another dimension, I don't call these hallucinations either. It's like turning the radio dial and tuning into a different radio station. all this is of course my humble opinion.

 

We should prob draw a distinctions between psychedelics and hallucinogens. According to my understanding, psychedelics are a SUBSET of hallucinogens. I believe I am correct in saying that Datura is not truly a psychedelic, no?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinogens

The mushrooms I did last night were psilocybin shrooms, but the guy there was saying his first psychedelic mushroom trip was on Amanita Muscaria...which as far as I know is a dissociative not a psychedelic. I had to bite my tongue. Same guy was also holding forth that all psychedelic mushrooms work "basically because of poison"...as if the psychedelic buzz was akin to alcohol or something like that...which also ran contrary to my understanding. Course this is the same guy who had us smoking cubensis so...obviously he's not a scholar (though he tripped a fuck-ton back in the 70s)

 

I definitely don't conflate fractals, distortions and most of the energies experienced on psychedelics as hallucinations.

But yah I do experience hallucinations, sometimes the radio stations have static.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOCQvPyzl1Y&feature=autoplay&list=FLFKOz7YfYIWaSUxTA3f_4aw&lf=plpp_video&playnext=1"]WORD SALAD - Animation by Micah Buzan - YouTube

 

i think both are possible.

it's quite possible that visuals from psychedelics are FULLY explained by the drugs interacting with brain chemistry. actually this thought is not mutually exclusive with the other possibility. because in the following case, it's still produces by drug + brain chemistry, it just means something more i guess...

or it's possible that DMT actually IS "the spirit molecule" of plants' and/or "alien" entities' consciousnesses (that was a mouthful)

maybe what you see on DMT actually is a true alternate dimension. one of the dudes in the movie said he was sure he was in the divine realm. meaning he was actually seeing the spiritual dimension, which isn't really necessary for day to day survival (evolution)


my favorite part of that movie was when they said how the electromagnetic spectrum was unknown before year X. some other spectrum was unknown before year Y. there are likely other spectra that we haven't discovered yet. or have discovered but can't explain. like dark matter (some 95% of the known universe and we don't know what the fuck it is.)


another cool consideration that really made me think while super stoned last night - what if our universe/reality is CONSCIOUSNESS based, like the "One" collective consciousness is all that "is." and MATTER is simply a construct resulting from consciousness?

and the bit about the brain not being WHERE your soul/consciousness comes from, but rather like a radio receiver for something much bigger that continues on long after your physical body

 

Datura is generally considered a deliriant.

So you want to open the realms for Classical Hallucinogens or those that act similarly as possibly being no less correct than the experience of sober consciousness, now you want to make a distinction with Datura.

What kind of distinction are you looking to make?

 

Have you watched "The Quantum Activist"? If not, you ought to. Actually everyone on this thread ought to. It focuses on exactly the problem you are talking about pork.

This is a very good point GB and you aptly point out my own knee-jerk behavior. I suppose we had been using the terminology of psychedelic, so to try to dispute a claim made about psychedelics with a non-psychedelic example seems like not "fair play." On the other hand, if I am true to my thesis, I must say that I believe both psychedelic and other hallucinogenic experiences are just examples of awareness doing its thing. Sober consciousness is, in fact, also an example of awareness doing its thing...Hmmm...I'll have to think about this one...

 

dead plant matter would become oil, and pharmaceuticals made from that. What difference does it make?..

 

^this


Also, bump for hopefully getting a few blotter hits of 25i-nbome from a friend of a friend. Hoping to find out whether its complexed or not before i get it so i know if i can just swallow it or not.