Psychedelic Bump XVII

Popularity · Mar 18, 2012

I just got some wonderful MXE. I've used EU MXE in the past that was more grainy but still really good.
I've also tried a sample that was supposed to be good but was a bit powdery and made me feel bad.

This batch I have now is the best on the market. It looks so perfect and is.
A perfect mixture of fluffiness, graininess, powderiness, and sparkliness.

eggsprog · Mar 19, 2012

I've been trying to get a kit but can't find anywhere in Canada to get one, and dancessafe won't ship to Canada. pissing me off.

guerillabedlam · Mar 19, 2012

bump for some hash weed.

ChrisFromScotland · Mar 19, 2012

Two days heroin free ! though it would be nieve to believe i'm free from heroin. The biggest part of it is psychological, thats apparent. I'm still craving it like a bitch if i'm honest. You don't need to be using to know your still a junkie, don't be kidding yourself now.

I hope none of you guys ever touch this shit, i'd even watch what your doing with MXE, seems fiendish from what i've observed, kind of a grey hat of the psychedelics, i'd tread carefully especially if your prone to addictive behaviour. To be fair, you guys in the psy/bump seem to be pretty responsible users, most of you. We all have our skeletons...i know. lol

Addictions a bitch, i've had it with amphets, alcohol now this. I still believe i'm pretty aware of my shit, it could be so easy to stop this, i even know how, i knock most drug support workers on their arses with my jedi knowledge lol but the monkey on the back remains whatever the vice. Gonna be a tough nut to crack.

Voyage · Mar 19, 2012

guerillabedlam said:

bump for some hash weed.
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Whoa, really? First time I remember you mentioning smokin. Prob as stoned as I was on one hit in maui...

Chris... hang tough.

Raga_Mala · Mar 19, 2012

^GB, my dealer is telling me he has hash too...haven't taken him up on it yet. Never tried hash... (At the moment I'm broke...if I smoke in the next few days it will definitely be a resin round-up...yech...)

He also sells pre-baked edibles, which might be my new method of administration since I don't feel comfortable smoking around my roommates...but a stash of cookies would be totally inoffensive!

...Tomorrow's the day for the shroom trip. I'm gonna go for it, but I'll request a tiny dose since it's my first!

CannbisSouL · Mar 19, 2012

eggsprog said:

I've been trying to get a kit but can't find anywhere in Canada to get one, and dancessafe won't ship to Canada. pissing me off.
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You can make your own reagents. I'm about to head out but I'll take a look for the link I saw once I get back. Seemed like pretty basic chemistry.

thismoment · Mar 19, 2012

porkstock41 said:

our trip was pretty awesome. gorgeous fuckin day! we went for a walk in the park, and a bike ride in the cemetery. explored some new parts of the cemetery and my bro found his favorite spot.

7 hours later and we are mostly back to normal. no hangover or nasty aftereffects.

CEVs were very DMT like.

EDIT: i did get a slight headache towards the end of the night that has lasted into this morning. pot seems to make it worse, and i smoked a plethora of it. also could have probably stayed a bit more hydrated during the trip. my brother said he didn't get any negative effects. but he was asking an awful lot "what was i just talking about?....what was i gonna say?" he was pretty "out of it" like 3 or 4 hours into the trip, in the cemetery. we were coming down at that point and he said he just felt like his head was gone.
we both had a lot of shit to get done today. he has some papers to write for school, and i had some complicated lab tasks to get done today. they actually crossed my mind several times during my trip, and i couldn't stop thinking about what i had to do for work. a bit of a negative impact on my set, but it was fine.

hard to even say how this stuff feels different from acid. it kicks in a lot quicker (like 5 minutes!!) and lasts a lot shorter. less visual open eyed, but closed eye visuals are different from those i get from acid or phens, like i said they were very DMT-like. so i guess that's a few differences from acid. my brother said he thinks he likes the stars better. so do i, but this is a damn good 2nd.

he said it felt like he was being watched my millions of people when he closed his eyes on 4aces. then he mentioned again that it looked like dogs were watching him. reminded me of how i feel on vaped DMT.
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Interesting. I took a little more than 30mg in a harsh setting and was just overwhelmed. Lying there shivering, holding on until it was over.

thismoment · Mar 19, 2012

Raga_Mala said:

^GB, my dealer is telling me he has hash too...haven't taken him up on it yet. Never tried hash... (At the moment I'm broke...if I smoke in the next few days it will definitely be a resin round-up...yech...)

He also sells pre-baked edibles, which might be my new method of administration since I don't feel comfortable smoking around my roommates...but a stash of cookies would be totally inoffensive!

...Tomorrow's the day for the shroom trip. I'm gonna go for it, but I'll request a tiny dose since it's my first!
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Be sure you keep them cookies locked up!

G0dm4ch1n3 · Mar 19, 2012

CannbisSouL said:

You can make your own reagents. I'm about to head out but I'll take a look for the link I saw once I get back. Seemed like pretty basic chemistry.
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Yeah, Marquis is just formaldehyde and Sulfuric Acid and Mecke is Selenious Acid and Sulfuric Acid I believe.

eggsprog said:

I've been trying to get a kit but can't find anywhere in Canada to get one, and dancessafe won't ship to Canada. pissing me off.
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Try http://www.eztest.com/2/ . They have Mecke and Marquis plus Ehlrich that tests that show LSD, DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, 5-Meo-MiPT, 5-MeO-DiPT, Psilocybin, Psilocine, 4-acetoxy-DMT and other indoles. They have one called Scott that shows Cocaine, MDPV and 5-MeO-MiPT and one called MCPP that test for MCPP (obviously) and TfMPP. Not to mention the standard Mandelin test that shows (meth)amphetamines, ketamine, 2-AminoIndane, Ritalin and PMA/PMMA.

They ship worldwide so you won't have any probs with them shipping to Canada. They are fast and very helpful. This is whom I have always used.

guerillabedlam · Mar 19, 2012

Voyage said:

Whoa, really? First time I remember you mentioning smokin. Prob as stoned as I was on one hit in maui...
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Yah it's rare but I partake every now and then. I got pretty baked but it was overall pretty chill.

Raga_Mala said:

^GB, my dealer is telling me he has hash too...haven't taken him up on it yet. Never tried hash... (At the moment I'm broke...if I smoke in the next few days it will definitely be a resin round-up...yech...)

He also sells pre-baked edibles, which might be my new method of administration since I don't feel comfortable smoking around my roommates...but a stash of cookies would be totally inoffensive!

...Tomorrow's the day for the shroom trip. I'm gonna go for it, but I'll request a tiny dose since it's my first!
Click to expand...

I can't really tell a qualitative difference between the hash high and weed high, But as mentioned above, it's rare that I smoke. Definitely takes less to get stoned with hash tho.

I haven't had edibles in awhile, I have had some cookies from a Dispensary before and they were absolutely delicious!

Enjoy your shroom trip, don't be too cautious with dose now.

porkstock41 · Mar 19, 2012

thismoment said:

Interesting. I took a little more than 30mg [4-aco-dmt] in a harsh setting and was just overwhelmed. Lying there shivering, holding on until it was over.
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yes, it was very shivery. made me cold for the duration of the trip.

when i first started that walk, i was shivering so hard i was almost having a seizure. and like i said, my eyes were welling up with moisture to the point that it was hard to see through it.

happened to my brother too. his face was beat red at times.

and he mentioned that it felt like his hands were swelling up. someone said that happens to them on 4aces. i don't think it was really happening to my bro, he was just "feeling" it

largeamount · Mar 19, 2012

hash really varies in quality and you can't tell if its good or not by just looking at it

I cant wait to bump this beautiful new white dmt ive got

G0dm4ch1n3 · Mar 19, 2012

largeamount said:

I cant wait to bump this beautiful new white dmt ive got
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First time doing DMT?

felix4life · Mar 19, 2012

Chris, one thing that will defintely help you is taking in LOTS of vitamin C. High Dose Vitamin C has been successfully used to help eliminate heroine addiction:

http://media.libsyn.com/media/gangaroots/014_-_HENews_-_All_About__Vitamin_C.mp3

The Hypoascorbemia-Kwashiorkor
Approach to Drug Addiction Therapy:
A Pilot Study

by Alfred Libby and Irwin Stone

(Part 1)

Drug addictions, like cancer, are terrifying conditions to the
victims because of the feelings of hopelessness and abandonment generated
by the rigors of and general failure of the orthodox "treatments."
Although crude opium addiction has a very long history, the
large-scale addictive use of morphine salts, in this country, is
generally dated from their use on wounded Civil War soldiers. Following
1864, morphine addiction was realized to be an emerging socially
significant problem in this country; therefore searches were instituted
to find less addicting drugs. The year 1890 saw the introduction of heroin.
For about five more decades, to the year 1912, nothing was done to stop
the rising tide of morphine and heroin users in this country. The
realization of that fact promped in that year the organizing of legal
opiate clinics, not however, to treat the addict, only to support the
user's habit in an attempt to stem the rising crime rate and sales of
black market drugs. These legal opiate clinics remained open until 1924
when they were closed down as dismal failures. It took until the
mid-1950's, another fallow period of about 30 years, before another major
attempt started, the Methadone Program, which has continued up to the
present. This program embraces the concept of orally giving a legally
addicting drug (methadone) in place of an illegal addicting drug
(heroin).
The lack of success in handling drug addictiion, until now, is due
to placing the emphasis on the legal aspects of the problem, mainly that
of the crime and punishment concept, and ignoring the mental and physical
condition of the addicts and neglecting to treat the health and metabolic
problems of the victims. Drug addicts suffer from severe metabolic
dysfunctions and are very sick people. Any attempted solution to the
drug addiction problem which fails to bring total health back to the
addict is doomed to failure.

Drug Addiction and the Genetic Disease, Hypoascorbemia

Drug addicts, like other humans, are born carrying a defective gene
for the synthesis of the liver-enzyme protein, l-gulonolactone oxidase
(GLO). This birth defect (Stone, 1966), causes a potentially fatal, but
now easily correctable (Stone, 1967), genetic liver-enzyme disease,
Hypoascorbemia (Stone, 1966a). This "inborn error of carbohydrate
metabolism" has destroyed the capability of the human liver to synthesize
ascorbate from blood glucose, and thus deprives mankind of this important
mammalian mechanism for combatting stresses. The normal mammalian
response to stress is to increase liver-synthesis of ascorbate as an
antistressor and detoxicant to maintain biochemical homeostasis within
the body (Stone, 1972).
Most mammals carry the intact gene for GLO and normally produce,
under conditions of little stress, about 10 to 20 g. of ascorbate per day
per 70 kg body weight to take care of their daily physiological needs. A
biochemical feedback mechanism evolved in the early mammals (Stone,
1972a) which increased daily ascorbate production possibly three to
five fold under a variety of chemical and physical stresses. Humans,
among the very few mammals deprived of this homeostatic protective mechanism,
suffer more physiological damage from equivalent stresses unless
exogenous ascorbate is supplied. Thus a daily intake of 10 to 20 g of
ascorbate by a relatively unstressed adult human is not "excessively
high," but well within the normal mammalian range. Under stress humans
require about 30 to 100 g or more a day to maintain health. The
therapeutic use of mega levels of ascorbate has met with great success in
the treatment of the viral diseases (Klenner, 1974; Cathcart, 1976),
cancer (Stone, 1976), and many other pathologies. The sub-subsistence,
"homeopathic" daily intakes of ascorbate, recommended for the past 40
years by the nutritionists as "vitamin C" for humans, would barely
suffice to keep the other mammals alive and certainly not in good health.
The wide acceptance of this erroneous nutritional hypothesis by modern
medicine has only led to the continued persistence of chronic subclinical
scurvy (CSS Syndrome) (Stone, 1972; Stone, 1977) as our most wide-spread
and insidious human disease at present.

Physiological Effects of Drug Addiction

The usual history of addiction follows this sort of pattern: The
future addicts are born with the genetic defect for GLO, and already at
birth are suffering from the CSS Syndrome. The CSS Syndrome usually
continues throughout childhood, adolescence, and adulthood without much
of an attempt at any significant correction. It has been our experience
that all of the addicts we have dealt with began their introduction into
the drug culture at an early age. They usually begin as a weekend
'high," escalating into a daily habit from which they can't escape. Each
of these stresses further depletes the already dangerously low body
stores of ascorbate leading to the severe exacerbation of the CSS
Syndrome already present. Adequate repletion of the body stores of
ascorbate is nonexistent.
On drugs, the addicts lose their appetite for food. Food
deprivation or restriction leads to severe protein and vitamin
malnutrition. All the chronic addicts tested suffer from
hypoaminoaciduria. This has led us to regard a confirmed addict as
suffering from a Hypoascorbemia-Kwashiorkor type of syndrome, and our
treatment procedure was designed as an intensive holistic approach for
the full correction of these genetic and multimalnutritional
dysfunctions. The procedure is completely orthomolecular, and no foreign
substance or toxic narcotic or drug is used.
Briefly, by fully correcting this Hypascorbemia-Kwashiorkor
Syndrome, we are able to take the addicts off heroin or methadone,
without the appearance of withdrawal symptoms. If during the period of
full correction they take a "fix," it is immediately detoxified or
otherwise handled by the body so that no "high" occurs. It is like
injecting pure water provided the dosage of ascorbate is high enough.
After a few days on the regimen, appetite returns and they start eating
voraciously. They also have restful sleep. Restless sleep or no sleep
at all are characteristic of heroin and methadone withdrawl.
"Full correction" in the addicts treated comprised giving them 25 to
85g sodium ascorbate a day in spaced doses along with high intakes of
the other vitamins, essential minerals, and high levels of predigested
proteins. This is continued for four to six days, and then the dosages
are gradually reduced to lower holding dose levels that varied from about
10 to 30 g per day. Both the therapeutic and the holding dose levels may
vary widely according to the clinical response of the particular addict
being treated. The therapeutic dosage is usually slightly beyond the
bowel tolerance level, held for 12 to 24 hours. Selection of proper
dosage is based on clinical experience and observation and responses of
the patient. Bowel tolerance is a concept introduced by Robert Cathcart
M.D. (1976) for judging the toxicity of the pathology and the required dosage
of ascorbate needed for treatment. Cathcart found the bowel tolerance
increases with increased stresses on the organism. The general
improvement in the well-being of the addicts within 12 to 24 hours after
beginning sodium ascorbate detoxification is striking. It is
demonstrated by improved mental alertness and visual acuity; appetite is
returning, and the addict is amazed that treatment is succeeding without
the use of another narcotic.

Some Recent Studies on Ascorbate

We do not claim to be the first to suggest or use ascorbate in the
addiction problem, but we do claim to be the first to use sodium
ascorbate properly to get these desired results. Ascorbate injected into
rats at the rate of 100 mg per kg body weight attenuated and abolished
the narcotic effects of morphine (Ghione, 195. Ascorbate's
detoxification of a wide variety of inorganic and organic poisons was
reviewed (Stone, 1972) and included Klenner's study on the successful
megascorbic treatment of barbiturate poisoning, snakebite, and Black
Widow spider bites. It was also suggested in this review that
megasdoses of ascorbate be used in drug addiction (Stone, pp. 157-158,
l972). Two interesting papers appeared in 1976, one from Thailand which
showed that the sleeping time induced in rabbits by 15 mg of
pentobarbital could be progressively reduced by increasing amounts of
ascorbate injected five minutes prior to the pentobarbital. The sleeping
times in minutes for ascorbate dosages of 0, 250 mg, 500 mg, 750 mg were
50, 29 27, 23, and at 1,000 mg ascorbate the rabbits did not fall asleep
at all (Bejrablaya and Laumjansook, 1976). The other paper (Scher et
al., 1976) was originally presented in 1974 to the North American
Congress on Alcohol and Drug Problems, by these authors from the National
Council on Drug Abuse and the Methadone Maintenance Institute, and was
entitled, "Massive Vitamin C as an Adjunct in Methadone Maintenance and
Detoxification." These authors realized that scurvy played a large part
in the drug abuse problem, but they only saw ascorbate as a means to
reduce some of the side effects of methadone administration like
constipation, loss of libido, and restless sleep. For this they used
about 5 g of ascorbic acid a day. It apparently never occurred to them
that by switching to sodium ascorbate and increasing their dosage by a
factor of 10, they could completely eliminate the ill-conceived Methadone
Program with all its problems and at the same time have a simple,
nontoxic, and elegant solution to the drug abuse problem.

The Orthomolecular Procedure for Correcting the H-K Syndrome

Originally in our early testing, when the addict came in we took a
sample of urine for the simple C-STIX test for urinary spillover of
ascorbate and a 24-hour specimen for a compelte quantitative individual
amino acid and related constituent column fractionation and assay. The
results were so consistently low on the amino acids, and with no
spillover of ascorbate, that we no longer go to the expense or bother of
these tests. The narcotic intake is stopped, and the addict is given the
first dose of sodium ascorbate, high levels of multivitamins and
minerals, and nine tablespooons per day of PHH-Pro, in divided doses, a
predigested protein preparation. Since the addicts have a rather
abnormal digestive system, it is an aid to direct absorption of the amino
acids into the vascular system if the liquid amino acid dosage is held in
the mouth as long as comfortable before swallowing. The total amount of
ascorbate given a day will vary with the extent of the drug addiction.
It is never less than 25 g a day in spaced doses and can go to 85 g or
more per day. As a rough rule-of-thumb means of judging dosage:
a $50/day habit needs 25 to 40 g sodium ascorbate, $150 to $200/day about
60 to 75 grams. Judging dosage comes with experience, and any errors
should be on the high-dosage side because of ascorbate's extremely low
toxicity and lack of side effects. The megadoses are continued for four
to six days. During this time no withdrawl symptoms should be encountered
(if any appear, increase the soldium ascorbate intake.) Generally, in two or
three days appetite returns and most patients begin to eat well and have
restful sleep for the first time since the chronic addiction began. One
of the first observations to be made of the patient on this
orthomolecular therapy is the rapid change in well-being: they feel
good. The mega doses are then gradually reduced to holding dose levels
of about 10 g per day of sodium ascorbate and lower levels of the
vitamins and mienrals. The predigested protein is discontinued if the
patients are eating well.

Typical Case Histories

Case 1. T.M., male, age 23. Using drugs for 10 years. At 15, used
heroin for a "weekend high." At the time our treatment was started, he
was supporting a $100-a-day habit. He had tried, on several occasions,
the hospital detoxification programs of methadone and liquid Darvon.
Each time this program of substituting another narcotic for the heroin
failed to give him satisfactory relief. The first thing he did when he
came out of the hospital was to inject heroin becasue of the insatiable
craving and being sick form the methadone or liquid Darvon. On coming
in, his urine was tested for urinary spillover of ascorbate and amino
acids. There was no urinary spillover, confirming the presence of
hypoascorbemia and hypaminoaciduria. He was given 25 g of sodium
ascorbate in 4 g doses along with the vitamins, minerals, and the protein
supplements. After three days on the regimen, he began eating and
feeling so much better and thinking more clearly, stating that "I don't
want to go stealing no more," and he began to have restful sleep. The
ascorbate was reduced to 10 g per day on the sixth day. He has now been
on this holding dose for about three months and is completely drug-free
and has lost his "desire" for the drug. He has graduated from the
Manpower program and in now gainfully employed for the first time in his
adult life.

Case 2. A.C. male, age 24. Began using heroin at age 15 and now
had a habit costing between $150 and $200 a day. Had tried at least
seven different hospitals for detoxification and was on methadone
maintenance for three years. He stil "fixed" with heroin, or order to
take the methadone, as it upset his stomach and made him ill. "Methadone
kills your insides," to quote the patient. He was such a skeptic of the
value of our orthomolecular program that on a Sunday he first took 45 g
of sodium ascorbate and then in the space of five hours he "shot-up"
$300-$400 worth of heroin, and he felt no effect from this large amount
of heroin. He continued on the ascorbate, 45 g per day for 10 days,
along with the vitamins, minerals, and protein supplement. Then the
dosage was reduced to 10 g sodium ascorbate and continued for another 30
days. The patient has moved out of the area, but when last seen, he was
drug-free and had an extreme sense of well-being and a good attitude.

Case 3. F.F., male, age 35. He had been on drugs for 23 years, the
last seven on the methadone maintenance program. He suffered the typical
symptoms of methadone; severe constipation, loss of sleep, loss of
libido. He would take laxatives and enemas, and still was unable to
move his bowels. When he did have a bowel movement, the stool was so
hard and impacted that he would "faint or blackout from the pain." He
was given the sodium ascorbate at the rate of 25 g per day for four days;
then increased to 45 g, then after one day reduced to 10 g of the 50-50
mixture of NaA and AA. He is still on this dosage level one month later
and was seen at this time. He was doing so well that his mental attitude
was excellent, appetite had returned, he has normal bowel movements
without laxxatives, and his sex drive is slowly returning. He was
advised to remain on the holding doses and return in one month for
another checkup. Methadone maintenance is much more difficult to deal
with than heroin addiction due to the adverse metabolic effect methadone
has on the body.
At the time this paper was written, 30 out of 30 patients were
successfully treated in this pilot study under the supervision of AFL.
This reported 100 percent rate of success is the same as that noted
by Dr. Cathcart in his megascorbic therapy of the viral disease, "it
works every time," provided enough ascorbate is used.

Orthomolecular Treatment of Drug Overdosage

Drug overdosage is a common occurrence because of the wide
variability in the potency of the illicit "street" drugs and the tendency
among addicts to mix different drugs. This causes many deaths among
addicts. A nonspecific orthomolecular treatment of OD's which acts as an
antidote and rapidly relieves the stricken addict, is as follows: If the
victim is unconscious, immmediately but slowly inject 30 or more grams of
sodium ascorbate intravenously; if conscious and can swallow and retain
liquids, give about 50 grams of sodium ascorbate dissolved in a glass of
milk.

Case History

A mother brought in her 16-year-old son who was totally "spaced out"
on "Angel Dust" (PCP). This boy was incoherent and totally out of tune
with reality. He was given 30 grams of sodium ascorbate mixed in a glass
of milk, and within 45 minutes he could hold a normal conversation. If
he had been given 50 grams, it is likely he would have become rational
sooner. With intravenous ascorbate, this recovery time could be cut down
to minutes.

Discussion

This joint pilot study was started in January, 1977, after a series
of coincidences between the authors. Both authors had been studying
independently on the drug abuse problem for many years. Libby conducting
occasional clinical tests on addicts since 1974 and getting exceedingly
promising results, and Stone studying the theoretical, genetic, and
biochemical background. We heard of each other's studies in December,
1976, and pooled our knowledge and experience. Stone had been trying
unsuccessfully to get some clinical research started for over a decade.
His latest and most discouraging attempt came in November, 1976, when a
megascorbic clinical research protocol was turned down by one of the "top
men" in the field with, "there is no evidence for usefulness of massive
doses of vitamin C in any disorder (except scurvy)--least of all in
conditions associated with heroin addiction." "Massive doses of vitamin
C are potentially toxic." "There is no known scientific basis for
thinking that vitamin C would be beneficial in methadone maintenance or
detoxification."
If we had not regarded this authoritarian certitude as utter
nonsense, this promising new therapy of drug addiction could have been
again delayed for years. This prevailing attitude toward megascorbics,
however, convinced us that the orthodox drug abuse agencies were not the
proper means for starting or conducting exploratory clinical tests on
megascorbics in drug abuse. We also realized that getting any support
for clinical studies involving megascorbics, the black sheep of orthodox
funding agencies, would be next to impossible to obtain, and certainly
impossible to obtain quickly. Libby's preliminary tests were so
impressive and this study had been delayed for so long, that in view of
the poor record of achievement by orthodox medicine, we felt immediate
action was demanded. We eliminated all the time-consuming funding red
tape by simply operating on our own personal funds and time.
The clinical results have been so successful in 100 percent of the
30 drug addicts treated to date of this writing, that we regarded the
prmpt presentation and publication of our data to be an absolute
necessity.
As a consequence of the lack of funds, we have not been able to dot
all the "i's" and cross all the "t's.", and chase down all our
speculations. We have, however, gone to a point where we can offer a
reliable, nontoxic, simple, and practical procedure that has many
advantages over the present orthodox means of handling drug addicts.
Even though this therapy utilizes sodium ascorbate, vitamins,
minerals, and predigested protein, we believe that the main antinarcotic
effect is due to the sodium ascorbate, and the other materials are
necessary adjuncts. High levels of sodium ascorbate have analgesic
properties as shown by the observations of Cameron and Baird (1973) and
Saccoman (1976) in terminal cancer and by Klenner (1974) in the relief of
pain of severe burns and snakebite.
In terminal cancer, the ascorbate analgesia was so good that the
patients' heavy toxic morphine schedules were discontinued. Thus high
levels of sodium ascorbate mimic morphine and probably fit into the
opiate receptor sites. The fact that these terminal cancer patients
abruptly removed from their morphine showed no withdrawl symptoms was one
piece of evidence that indicated our megascorbic treatment of drug
addiction would be successful.
As previously noted, ascorbate is a general detoxicant for many
different poisons, but its mode of action is mostly unknown. Klenner
(1974) points out, "Ascorbic acid can be lifesaving in shock. Twelve
grams of the sodium salt given with a 50 cc syringe will reverse shock in
minutes. In barbiturate poisoning and monoxide poisoning, the results
are so dramatic that it borders on malpractice to deny this therapy."
The detoxicating effect of sodium ascorbate on narcotics appears to be so
rapid that this very rapidity seems to preclude a mechanism involving
direct chemical attack on the narcotic molecule to convert it into some
inactive derivative. Also it succeeds on so many different types of
narcotic molecules. A more compatible hypothesis would be to view the
action as a competition for opiate receptor sites of the brain, wherein
high levels of sodium ascorbate in the brain prevent the attachment and
displace narcotic molecules already attached to these sites.

Brain Receptor Sites

The research of S.H. Snyder et al on the binding of morphine-like
substances to brain opiate receptor sites was recently reviewed (Snyder,
1977). They have shown that the largest amount of binding occurs in
cells from the very primitive limbic system deep within the brain. They
also showed that the very primitive hagfishes and sharks have as much
opiate receptor binding sites as the most advanced of the mammals,
monkeys, and man. They found that the properties of these receptor sites
in these early and most recent vertebrates were similar, indicating that
few changes have been made during the course of about 400 million years
of evolution. It is states that, "This suggested that the opiate
receptor is normally concerned with receiving some molecule that has
remained the same throughout evolution....possibly a neurotransmitter
which acts at these sites." Also the presence of high levels of sodium
helps dislodge the narcotic from the receptor sites.
We speculate that these binding sites were evolved in the early
vertebrates to concentrate and localize, from the very low concentrations
existing in these animals, the electronically labile ascorbate molecules,
which aid in neurotransmission. The fact that these sites bind narcotics
is purely happenstance, because of a possible similarity in molecular
shape. There does not seem to be any obvious physiological evolutionary
reason for concentrating narcotics in the nerve endings of this newly
developing control system, whereas there may have been a great need to
concentrate and obtain high levels of ascorbate at synpases to aid is
efficient nerve impulse transmission. Ascorbate is a molecule that
appears to have changed little in the last 400 million years and was
present on the evolutionary scene long before the fishes appeared (Sone,
1977a). If this hypothesis is valid, then the receptor sites should be
renamed "ascorbate receptors" instead of "opiate receptors." It should
not be difficult to experimentally test the validity of these theoretical
considerations.
The rapid quenching of the narcotic effect by mega levels of
ascorbate led us to speculate on the possibility of utilizing this
phenomenon for other purposes than drug addiction namely:

Implications

In surgery it might be possible to eliminate the patient
spending hours in the recovery room "coming out" of the anesthetic which
also requires nursing attendance. If the patient at the termination of
the operative procedure was given a massive intravenous injection of
sodium ascorbate, possibly in the neighborhood of 30 to 50 grams, it
might be possible for the patient to be awake before leaving the
operating room. Giving the patient large doses of ascorbate immediately
before an operation should be generally avoided, because it would
increase the amount of anesthetic required to give an equivalent
anesthetic effect. Giving the patient this post-operative dose of
ascorbate would also have other salutary healing and anti-shock effects.

Materials and Sources

All the materials used in this study are orthomolecular and are
commonly available. No toxic chemicals or narcotics are employed.
The ascorbate may be obtained in several different types and forms,
and it is best to have a sufficient supply of all to meet individual
requirements. One should become familiar with the properties of
ascorbate in its different forms. Sodium ascorbate can be obtained both
as the pure crystalline power and as 1 gram tablets. The crystalline
poweder is very soluble in water, milk, and foods, is essentially
tasteless, and a level teaspoon weighs about 3 grams. A solution has a
pH of slightly over 7. Ascorbic acid, while also quite soluble in water,
has a very sour taste and is limited in the number of foods to which it
may be added because of this sour taste. It has a pH of about 3 and will
curdle milk if added thereto. Sodium ascorbate is the preferred
substance for the megadosages.
The high-potency vitamin and mineral preparations were commercial
multi-vitamin and mineral preparations in tablet form. Six tablets
supplied the dosages listed in Table 1.

Table 1

Vitamins Minerals

Vitamin A 10,000i.u. Calcium 500mg
Vitamin D 400i.u. Phosphorous 200mg
Vitamin E 400i.u. Iron 20mg
Vitamin B1 50mg Iodine 0.15mg
Vitamin B2 50mg Magnesium 500mg
Vitamin B6 100mg Potassium 90mg
Niacin 100mg Manganese 5mg
Ca Pantothenate 200mg Zinc 50mg
Vitamin B12 10mcg Copper 1mg
Folic Acid 0.1mg

Sterile injectable sodium ascorbate is supplied in 30 or 50 ml vials
containing a 25 percent solution. Use only the "preservative-free"
product. The intravenous route of administration of sodium ascorbate is
more rapid and efficient than the oral route, since it bypasses the
digestive tract. In drug overdoses and in occasional other cases it may
have to be used.
In an effort to reduce the number of separate products used in this
procedure we have been experimenting with a single combined product
comprising sodium ascorbate with the vitamins and minerals to be
available soon both as a crystalline powder and tablets.
For the protein supplementation, we used a product called "P.H
H-PRO"comprising a liquid predigested collagen solution containing mostly
easily assimilatable amino acids. This is available in plastic bottles
up to 1 gallon size.

Summary

Chronic drug addiction produces in the victims severe subclinical
scurvy along with multivitamin and mineral dysfunction and protein
deficiencies. The widely used Methadone Program for "treating" these sick
people merely substitutes a legal narcotic for an illicit one, which only
continues the severe biochemical stresses contributing to their illness.
This pilot study regarded the addicts as suffering from a serious
Hypoascorbemia-Kwashiorkor type of syndrome. Our procedure was designed
to fully correct both the genetic defect causing the Hypoascorbemia and
also the multimalnutritional disturbances and protein deficiencies
involved in the Kwashiorkor. The treatment is entirely orthomolecular
and inexpensive, is non-toxic, and uses no drugs or narcotics. It is
rapidly effective in bringing good health to the addicts. In the initial
phases of the procedure, sodium ascorbate is administered at 25 to 85
grams perday or more, along with high doses of multivitamins, essential
minerals, and protein hydrolysate. Under this treatment, the heroin or
methadone is stopped and no withdrawl symptoms are encountered. Should a
"fix" be taken, it is immediately detoxified and no "high" is produced.
It is like injecting plain water. There is a great improvement in
well-being and mental alertness. In a few days appetite returns and the
"methadone-constipation" is relieved. After about four to six days the
dosages are reduced to holding dose levels. In the 30 addicts tested in
this pilot study, the results were excellent in all cases, and it would
appear that this simple nontoxic procedure should serve as the basis for
large-scale testing to develop a new program for freeing drug addicts of
their addiction. In drug overdosage, sodium ascorbate can be a
life-saving measure. Unconscious overdosed addicts are given the sodium
ascorbate intravenously, 30 to 50 grams, while those able to swallow can
be given the same quantity dissolved in a glass of milk. This antidote
is nonspecific and succeeds on all drugs, so no time need be wasted in
identifying the drug. We speculate on ascorbate's action as due to the
high levels of sodium ascorbate in the brain as competing for and
displacing the narcotic from the opiate receptor sites. If this be the
case, then it might be possible to use this phenomenon postoperatively on
surgical patients to quickly bring them out of anesthesia.

References

Bejrablaya, d., and Laumjansook, K.,: Effect of Various Doses of
Ascorbic Acid Upon Pentobarbital: J. Med. Assoc. Thailand 59: (4)
188-189,1976

Cameron, E. and Baird, G.: Ascorbic Acid and Dependence on Opiates in
Patients with Advanced Disseminated Cancer, J. Internat. Res. Communc. 1:
(6) 33, 1973

Cathcart. R.: Vitamin C and Viral Disease. Talk presented at the Annual
Meeting of the California Orthomolecular Medical Socieity, Feb. 19, 1976,
San. Fran.

Ghione, R.: Morphine Spasm and C-Hypervitaminosis. Vitaminologia (Turin)
16:131-136, 1958

Klenner R. Significance of High Daily Intake of Ascorbic Acid in
Preventive Medicine: J. Internat. Acad. Prev. Med. 1: 45-69, 1974

Saccoman W.: Personal Communication 1976.

Scher, J. Rice, H. Suck-Oo, Kim, DiCamelli: Massive Vitamin C as an
Adjunct in Methadone Maintenance and Detoxification, J. Orthomolecular
Psychiatry 5: (3) 191-198, 1976

Snyder, S. : Opiate Receptors and Intercranial Opiates. Scientific American,
236: (3) 44-56, March, 1977

Stone, I. On the Genetic Etiology of Scurvy. Acta Genet. Med. Gemellol:
15: 356-360, 1966.

Stone, I. Hypoascorbemia, the Genetic Disease Causing the Human
Requirement for Exogenous Ascorbic Acid. Perspect. Biol. Med. 10:
133-134, 1966a.

Stone, I: Hypoascorbemia: A Fresh Approach to an Ancient Disease and
Some of its Medical Implications. Acta Genet. Med. Gemellol. 16: 52-62,
1967.

Stone, I.: The Healing Factor: "Vitamin C", Against Disease. Grosset
and Dunlap Inc., New York, 1972.

Stone, I: The Natural History of Ascorbic Acid in the Evolution of the
Mammals and Primates and Its Significance for Present Day Man. J.
Orthomolecualr Psychiatry, 1, (2-3): 92-90. 1977a

Stone, I: Hypoascorbemia, Our Most Widespread Disease, Bull. Nat. Health
Fed. 18: (10) 5-9 1972b.

Stone I: The Genetics of Scurvy and the Cancer Problem. J.
Orthomolecualr Psychiatry :5, (3): 183-190, 1976.

Stone, I: The CSS Syndrome: A Medical Paradox. Northwest Acad. Prev.
Med. 1: (1) 24-28, 1977.
Click to expand...

ChrisFromScotland said:

Two days heroin free ! though it would be nieve to believe i'm free from heroin. The biggest part of it is psychological, thats apparent. I'm still craving it like a bitch if i'm honest. You don't need to be using to know your still a junkie, don't be kidding yourself now.

I hope none of you guys ever touch this shit, i'd even watch what your doing with MXE, seems fiendish from what i've observed, kind of a grey hat of the psychedelics, i'd tread carefully especially if your prone to addictive behaviour. To be fair, you guys in the psy/bump seem to be pretty responsible users, most of you. We all have our skeletons...i know. lol

Addictions a bitch, i've had it with amphets, alcohol now this. I still believe i'm pretty aware of my shit, it could be so easy to stop this, i even know how, i knock most drug support workers on their arses with my jedi knowledge lol but the monkey on the back remains whatever the vice. Gonna be a tough nut to crack.
Click to expand...

G0dm4ch1n3 · Mar 19, 2012

ChrisFromScotland said:

I hope none of you guys ever touch this shit..We all have our skeletons...i know. lol

Addictions a bitch
Click to expand...

I know how it is. I have delt with many addiction in my lifetime, more recently opiates that had a death grip on me for a long time. I had the hardest with them than Coke or anything else I had problems with.

Congrats on quitting!. Stay strong!

largeamount · Mar 19, 2012

ive smoked about 2 grams in my llife never got such white deem before though

G0dm4ch1n3 · Mar 19, 2012

largeamount said:

ive smoked about 2 grams in my llife never got such white deem before though
Click to expand...

Oh ok. I got some pure white stuff the first time I tried it and it was fire!

porkstock41 · Mar 19, 2012

never saw white dmt, only yellow-orange. don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. maybe not quite as potent by weight, due to extra alkaloids or plant material.

anyone else find similarities btwn 4-aco-dmt and n,n-dmt?

guerillabedlam · Mar 19, 2012

ChrisFromScotland said:

I hope none of you guys ever touch this shit, i'd even watch what your doing with MXE, seems fiendish from what i've observed, kind of a grey hat of the psychedelics, i'd tread carefully especially if your prone to addictive behaviour. To be fair, you guys in the psy/bump seem to be pretty responsible users, most of you. We all have our skeletons...i know. lol

Addictions a bitch, i've had it with amphets, alcohol now this. I still believe i'm pretty aware of my shit, it could be so easy to stop this, i even know how, i knock most drug support workers on their arses with my jedi knowledge lol but the monkey on the back remains whatever the vice. Gonna be a tough nut to crack.
Click to expand...

Yah I hear that. I've gotten pretty deep in with Mxe. Today, I was actually contemplating doing something similar as you and going to a different forum to find some advice about my situation, actually the opiate forum of all places... The other day when I was in here asking for DXM and stuff I was fucking bugging out pretty good but I got some 4-MEC the following day which is a completely different class of drug yet occupied my mind and enjoyed some pot today that kind of stave off cravings.

I find Mxe possessing a stronger psychological pull than what I had experienced on things like coke and alcohol prior to it, couple that with it's availability and relatively cheap price and it can be bad. I actually quit Hallucinogens for a about a year and a half when I was heavy into ketamine a few years back. So this disassociative class of drugs has had a strong pull on me for awhile. I've scanned the Opiate forums the past couple days and find myself relating to a lot of their trials and tribulations with opiates with mine and disassociatives and plus there is a casual attitude about mxe here which prolly doesn't help . I find it very interesting a few posts, including yours are saying the psychological pull of opiates is much worse than the physical withdrawal with opiates. Really makes me understand just how deep I may be in the grips of this shit, if opiates have a psychological pull anything similar to disassociatives and a physical withdrawal on top of that sounds pretty hellish. I've tried a couple opiates here and there, definitely was never interested enough in the high to stick with them though.

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