PS5 Rumored 8 Core Ryzen

Discussion in 'Computers and The Internet' started by wooleeheron, Nov 18, 2018.

  1. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter HipForums Supporter

    PlayStation 5 Release Date and Details Leaked; PSVR 2 in the Works | Digital Trends

    These are just rumors and, when it comes to consoles, all the kids want to hear the rumor that the next generation consoles will have the most powerful processor imaginable, so console rumors tend to be overly optimistic, and you may want to take this one with a pound of salt. Nevertheless, I bring it up here because this is one rumor that could be true and could signify a completely new PC architecture about to emerge on the market in 2020. AMD, Intel, Nvidia, and everyone else are all developing new chip stacking technology and completely new memory architectures that can dramatically speed up next generation computers.

    AMD has to provide whatever Sony and Microsoft want, but the next generation consoles will require at least a fast six core processor, and the architectural changes they might require could make it more worthwhile to use eight cores, which provides an automatic 25% greater efficiency for crunching larger numbers in particular. All of this is related to VR and ray tracing in the sense that its all related to the AI circuitry going into everything. Nvidia's RTX 2080 ti has produced seriously low frame rates and stuttering in Battlefield V, the first ray traced game on the market, because you really need an entirely new distributed PC architecture and faster next generation circuitry.

    The slowest part of a computer is the motherboard, so everyone wants to put everything on a single chip, but a single chip that big that could everything your average user wants would cost a fortune. So they are stacking little tiny chips that have little tiny 7nm transistors on them, because its just cheaper and faster to do that way. But the end result is they are redefining PC architecture in the process. Intel currently uses a ring bus for its cache, but that's only faster for processors with fewer cores. What AMD is currently doing is more interesting for long term development, and they are building the ability for their memory controller itself to decide how big a batch to process at any given time, so they can put all the memory right between the processors and gpus.

    With all the latest advances made in the mathematics for how to jamb all this stuff together all that much more efficiently, literally cutting memory use in half at least, there's just no way to guess what is coming with the next generation consoles. Eight cores would mean serious bandwidth capable of producing high frames per second at 4k resolutions and running ray traced applications. They could literally make consoles so powerful for $500.oo to $800.oo that nobody would buy a computer again.

    That might sound strange, but people buy computers for the applications and not the hardware, while these next generation consoles could be capable of doing virtually anything anyone already does with a home computer. Sony and Micrsoft essentially compel the video game developers to tweak their programs to their hardware, but those days may be coming to and end because the programs are growing so large and complex the consoles and PC hardware are merging towards the same 30 watt chip that does it all. When you start talking about crunching enormous numbers and high texture counts, you come closer to the kind of bandwidth requirements servers have and that technology trickles down to consumers.

    Thus far, Microsoft and Sony have made a living having a few engineers figure out how to tweak existing hardware for more bandwidth in games, but its getting to the point now where you need a Nobel prize winning mathematician to do any better simply due to the size of the numbers. Battlefield V is a 55gb download and a 65gb patch, and without dramatic increases in the bandwidth capacities video games would go down the toilet fast.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2018
  2. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

    Lol, playstation.
  3. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter HipForums Supporter

    A rumored 12tf PlayStation, which is enough to run 1440p and 4k at high frame rates. For $500.oo you can't even buy a video card that will do that yet. We'll have to wait and see how much it costs and how powerful it really is, but the closer the consoles come to the same power required to run a good desktop, the more their prices are converging. The problem is Microsoft, Intel, and Nvidia have a stake in keeping prices three times higher than they should be.

    Laugh at stupid consoles all you want, but the 8 core ryzen was developed specifically for consoles, which are increasingly paying for the technology in desktops. They may never put an eight core in the console, but they wanted that option for the long run, and Microsoft paid AMD to design the chips, so they wouldn't have to pay Intel three times as much. Current Intel alternatives to ryzen 8 core processors cost roughly twice as much when you include the motherboard and everything else.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2018
  4. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

  5. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter HipForums Supporter

    Don't cry, so what if you desktop PC is an overgrown console? Nobody blames you.
  6. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

    Why do they call it a playstation 5?
    Becausw when you look at it you realise you have to be 5 and under to play it.
  7. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

    I only buy like 4 or 5 games per console.

    Madden and the couple of fall out or Elder scroll games that get released. So, no biggie for me really.
  8. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter HipForums Supporter

    A steam survey discovered that something like 39% of all games purchased from them, were never played. People are buying crap they neither want nor need, and until we get a powerful open source hardware and software solution the idiots will keep driving prices through the ceiling. Hence, the reason so many developers and even Microsoft and everyone is jockeying for position. Within two generations at most, consoles should start to replace desktops for use in homes and for home entertainment centers. They are becoming so compact and low powered they are already building them into televisions and monitors.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2018
  9. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

    Probably because steam release cheap games for hardly any cost and people get them and realise they don't care about them and never play them. All big released games are popular, they give away free games for the sake of it monthly. Wouldn't be surprised at all that a large percentage of that survey ended up being games nobody wanted to play anyway.

    Plus you say that like everyone plays a console game. I've got several I played for 10mins and never again.
  10. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter HipForums Supporter

    The problem is the demand far outstrips the supply for both hardware and software. We need cheaper hardware just so they can keep up with the demand. The result is things like Microsoft bloatware and legacy crap and the most insane Rube Goldberg system for producing electronics you can imagine. The 15 billion parts in a typical desktop can be replaced with a few thousand, if they were fast enough, and shaving all that crap down to the essentials is sort of what they are doing currently with the new AI PC architecture. So far they've been adding everything but the kitchen sink to the chips because they just won't do everything people want fast enough, but now the race is to figure out how to replace a lot of that crap with AI and reduce hardware demands down to practically nothing. Theoretically, your graphics card could be replaced with something perhaps 10,000x more efficient using cheap fpga circuitry.

    IBM is working on designs for using even cheaper memristors that require maybe 3 watts. They really need to redesign everything around bandwidth concerns, and it will be another ten years before its all sorted out, and we'll be lucky to make sense out of what they are doing for the next couple of years, before the innovations start making your head spin, one after another after another after another, because it like they are re-inventing fire and the wheel, and making even Henry Ford look too slow. Seriously, the technology is already twenty years ahead of the consumer markets for the most part, and they are merely doling it out according to whatever the markets will bear.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2018
  11. Matias

    Matias Member

    I wasn't sure if I should even post on this thread or not because of how complicated it got so quickly.

    But, here's my two cents as a software engineer:

    Multi threading is the way of the future.

    Multi threading is a huge pain in the ass.

    Programming around multi threaded architectures is the worst thing ever. The hardware isn't quite there yet to make it easy as talking between threads usually means a stop to all work so registers can be loaded from one thread to another.

    Half of your problem with graphics, no not half, 80% is because of poor programming and a lack of understanding and utilization of what the hardware can already do.

    It takes thousands and thousands of iterations before you can say the game, the software, is finally running at peak performance.

    Just as we see each console release... The first few games look like trash while the games released at the end of the consoles life look amazing.

    It takes years for the guys to iterate over the software development lifecycle just to get it to maximize hardware.

    It's not always about how many cores you have.

    It's about how you use them.
    soulcompromise likes this.
  12. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

    Why do they call it a playstation 5?
    Because when you see it you run 5 miles away from it.

  13. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter HipForums Supporter

    Couldn't say it better myself, but multithreading has only been a huge pain in the ass because nobody has had the mathematics to make it work better. Just this year someone figured out a way to empower two cores to talk 30% faster, because nobody has known squat about the fundamental mathematics. Sometimes, you just have to fake it til you make it, and that's the story of consumer electronics today. Fake that crap, spit it out dirt cheap, give me a better fake, all because nobody really has the basic physics and mathematics. However, the progress made in recent years promises to do away with most of those issues, and more than double bandwidth capacities in the process. Just one example, is that AMD's new Vega graphics cards, decide for themselves how to run any video game.

    Between the fundamental mathematical advances about to be designed into servers first, and the AI circuitry going into every processor and gpu made, bugs and crappy programs are about to become history. Once we have a theory of everything, that will include such nice bits of information as how compress data to the greatest extent physically possible, and how to design a computer chip that does classical, quantum, and fuzzy logic calculations simultaneously. Theoretically, with a few thousand "transistors", rather than, the fifteen billion in a lot of laptops. All those billions of extra parts can be considered to exist to just to fake it until they can make the crap even cheaper.

    People think electronics are advanced technology, but they waste energy, are expensive to manufacturer, and are incredibly slow compared to the alternatives.
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
    Matias likes this.
  14. Irminsul

    Irminsul Valkyrie

    Why do they call it a playstation 5?
    Cause in 5 mins it's only worth 5 dolla on ebay.

  15. wooleeheron

    wooleeheron Brain Damaged Lifetime Supporter HipForums Supporter

    Consoles are the Obama phones of video gaming, which still have way more power than the Apollo landings, and the ability to emulate just about any console you want is around the corner. What we really require is cheap hardware capable of serious virtualization, which is about to come on the consumer markets, while the mathematics to emulate just about any console are being developed in AI today. An AI program could play a video game repeatedly and figure out the best way to emulate it on your machine, with such an AI chip today costing roughly $450.oo, but that's just to figure out how to create the emulation. Ironically, the newest Nintendo classic was made using someone else's emulation of their own video game console. It was just so much cheaper and easier it was a no-brainer.
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
  16. AI doesnt gardamn exist yet, stop calling it AI gardammit!!
  17. As for Playstation

    Doesnt matter how super dooper the console is

    You always get to that point where you find out you have to go back through all the previous levels, spend all night looking in every little freakin corner for every last jewel to progress

    Which also includes a few "how the fuck do I get up there" moments

    So over that shit

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