Prove to me the existence of God is a lie!!!

So then you're saying that those who say they have seen convincing evidence are wrong? many people say they have. What of them? I give them the benefit of the doubt, trust them until I see reason not too, and support them. If they say they saw God for example, I am willing to accept that they very well may have. I haven't. But I have seen other things that people scoff at, and know how it feels. Are you saying these people are delusional, liars, or a bit of both? And not one of them is correct? But you are?
I don't know. I still believe them.

 

Bravo Blackguard XII !!!!!!!!

 

If that were the case religious belief in god wouldn't be so rampant.

I may be an atheist, but that doesn't mean I can't understand why many are religious, and why they feel religion benefits their lives. For example, coming from a very strict christian background and having a religious family, I understand the christian point of view very well. I was immersed in it for years. It just isn't for me. That doesn't mean I am completely unable to see things from their perspective. While I agree many are simply following tradition (which is a completely normal cultural thing) there are plenty who feel they have strong evidence of their god. Of course, there are plenty who feel like they have evidence of alien abduction as well. When it comes to religion or belief in the supernatural it's all just personal evidence, a personal thing, no matter how rediculous others may see it to be.

Its just that some of us prefer empiracal evidence we can all experience and share and study and test and examine the nature of before concluding something to be believable, and other's personal anecdotes aren't enough to foster a belief in us. I can't make myself believe in a god simply because others do. It's not like I don't want to believe. The idea of the supernatural or an afterlife with a heaven where we are reunited with loved ones to live happily for eternity sounds wonderful, but wanting it to be true, and wishing it was true does not in fact make it true - and is not enough to convince me that it is true. I can't simply believe in a god or gods or an afterlife just because I would like there to be one.

 

erzebet- you dont understand ... and saying bravo....

 

Yes, thats why there are many academic disciplines, not everyone cares about everything enough to write about it. I happen to find scientific methodology and various branches of logic rather fascinating and spend inordinate amounts of time reading and thinking about those things. I also give a lot of time to two competing theories - one that god exists (I will make a case for that soon too). two - god does not exist.

Sounds good. I think the conclusion you make here is right infact one of the leading exponents of this methodology, Karl Popper, is very clear that

and the way to do that is with other theories that assert the observation around which the theory is based can be explained another way IE with another positive theory that will refute the analysis of the first theory merely because it fits the facts better http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_science#Falsifiability

Not necessarily. If I claim there is no god and have a competing theory to prove there is no god then I am offering a competing theory that negates the existence of god, but an atheist is in the privaledged position of merely having to stand at the back of a church and call out, you say god will do this and that, but where is your proof god exists. After all, you are saying that abortion is bad, sexual relations out of wedlock is bad, you say all this yet I have no proof god exists - where is your proof. The atheist needs no theory to assert there is no god - the fact that nearly 2600 years of christianity has failed to find an absolute proof of the existence of god leads one to begibn questioning the sanity of wasting money on a new cathedral or a church roof, and when some idiot Ayatollah proclaims a fatwa in the name of god - he'd better be damned sure god exists and I want to know it too, before his proclamation results in the death of someone who merely said what he thought.

 

excuse my wording in the last post that was a strong implication because someone might have seen "god" and i apoligise to those who have.....

what i meant to say is noone has evidence....

 

Everybody takes a position once they are introduced to the concept of God. Either I believe He exists, I don't believe He exists or I don't know if He exists.

If someone says that there is no God, they are making a claim. What is their reason for believing this?

A lot of people could offer you evidence for God's existence. Whether you consider it acceptable evidence is a different story.

 

it does polarise people in general. But most people, as we both know, just cant be bothered going to church and havent thought it through so they dont believe in god simply because they cant see god - which is silly.
Scientists generally prove things with experiments and observation with a logical analysis of those events. Ok so I've harped on enough about the burdon of proof, maybe we could help the worlds religion prove the existence of god. Perhaps one experiment would be to get all christians in the world to pray at the same time - the very same thing, and to pray and pray and pray in unison until they are worn out and hungry and dehydrated, and then perhaps their god will come. Same for all religions. Its just a suggestion that might work - whats wrong with the idea? Unless the worlds religious leader, such as the pope and the rest of the vatican, come up with some proof and explain that proof to us then it stands to reason there is no proof, because the vatican would surely know if god existed and could prove it beyond an ounce of doubt. And just on the subject of the pope, perhaps before the idiot opens his mouth to speak politics to the muslim world, and cause anger - which he did mean to do. He should at least tell us whether god is on his side or with the muslims - but first we need to know if there is a god

But like Karl popper said, we should look at the arguments of religion one at a time and if any contradictory evidence from one or more theories can more accurately describe the phenomena under discussion- the theists have to accept that, and be reasonable about the fact of what can and cant be acceptable proof. Reason has to come into it. More to the point, since the big bang theory is standing - perhaps we could test that theory againt what the bible tells us - After all religion competes with science

 

GIVE ME AT LEAST ONE OR MORE EVIDENCE OF GOD ? not liek i saw him in my dream.. or that pope says so... REAL EVIDNCE.

 

(Stunned silence.................)

 

I don't think this is a good way to show if there is a God or not. Is a good reason not to believe in someone because they won't do what you tell them to do? That's like the people who say "God, if you're real then strike me dead within the next minute." I don't think the existence of God should be judged on whether or not we can get him to jump through hoops to appease us.

I don't follow this argument. #1. Why if evidence of God exists would the pope have to know about it? If the pope wasn't aware of it, does that mean that it doesn't exist? #2 I'm guessing the pope probably could offer you evidence that God exists. I know a lot of Christians could and maybe have offered you evidence. Whether you accept that evidence or not is a different story.

I think you are right in saying that we have to be reasonable. I agree 100%.

I think it would be interesting to compare the big bang theory with what the Bible says.

 

Columbo - UHAHAHAHHAHAHA. That is why world progressed so much from those dark, and uninltellegent times.

 

yeah right I know its the only questions religious fanatics cant answer. thats why i wrote
(stunned silence......) I knew no-one would have an answer
Everything religion offers is either secondhand vidence or some mysterious answer that relies on the ability to interpret correctly a set of subjective events.

Yeah I knew it, no believer wants to know the truth. With all the knowledge the established christian church and the muslims are supposed to have about the existence of god, you would think one religion would at least test some theory or some method by which they could invoke gods presence.
This argument you offer is weak and ignores the point - if religions are so sure of god - PROVE its existence.

I am saying that the vatican has the accumulated research of over 2000 years study into the existence of god.
Now with all that knowledge and the different organisations within the catholic church designed to look after and preserve that knowledge, dont you think its odd that they choose not to tell ordinary people about what the proof they have concerning the existence of god amounts to?
They sit there reaping thousands of millions of dollars globally and still
have produced not one word of enlightened debate that would convince everyone that they are not just perpertrating a cheap scam

 

I don't think what I said ignores the point at all. You offered an idea an asked what's wrong with it. If this test is what it will take to convince you of God's existence then fine. I just don't think it's a very good one.

Why is the existence of God dependent on whether He is obedient to our silly commands?

Desiring evidence for God's existence is one thing. I just don't think I would be justified in rejecting the existence of God simply because he won't jump at my command.

 

So basically your religion teaches you to behave like a stalker. Essentially like a man who was rejected by his girlfriend and even though she refuses to talk he waits around and follows her and phones her etc.
Whats the point of this religion if your god does not talk to anyone on earth anymore? Its pointless -
Also what is pointless is in trying to prove god exists using prayer - ok we established that.
We shoud devise another theory of how to get god here - since you know more about this what is your suggestion, since its you thats saying god exists whats your theory of how to get this absent lover to talk again?
I dont believe you want to know if god exists - no-one who follows religion does - their faith is not in god because they are afraid that if they seek - they shall not find - but if they did prove the existence to be true then that would also render religion useless since it is faith based.
That is really the truth isnt it? That if you look for god it renders your religion useless whether god is disproved or proven so you dont want to know. Therefore you do not believe in god - your belief is in religion

Suppose god were proven true - and god said, no the christians got it wrong I hate christians I am a muslim - what then?

 

If you don't choose to do something that you have the power to do, does that mean you don't exist? If you choose not to edit your last post does that mean you don't exist? Of course not.

God does talk to us, through His Word. That's essential to Christianity. That is why He gave us the Bible. He's not some strange Being that we can not know anything about. God is not silent. He tells us who He is and what He's like through His Word and we can talk to Him through prayer.

 

And does he talk back in anything like words we can understand or just riddles you have to work out, or omens, and signs and all that BS?

 

The essentials of Christianity are simple enough for a child to understand.

 

Well this I have got to read, so go on then....
I asked you whether when you pray god answers in words or some kind of riddle or omen - but if there is some understanding I did not understand as a child can you explain these eesentials of prayer and how god will answer them ?
Maybe I missed something but I have asked every christian and muslim that I know, whether god has ever said anything to them personally so they were left in 100% of no doubt god had talked to them. You know what the answer was

 

I think I may have misunderstood your question. I thought from your response that you were referring to the Bible, that it could not be understood. That's why I said that the essentials of Christianity a child could understand. That wasn't a slight against you, I was just saying that the main and plain things can be understood.

When I pray, God does not talk back to me in an audible voice. He speaks to me through His Word, the Bible. This is personal because the scriptures speak to me personally. They apply to my life. Everything that I need to know from God, He has revealed to me in the pages of the Bible.