Prove to me the bible is real...

That entire site (and i've had a look around it, it's very interesting, i'm going to be spending more time reading it) is nothing but INTREPERTATION and EXCUSES... the fact remains that the bible DOES HAVE contradictions in it.. they are plain as the day is long (and that site does a very good job of listing them).

Sure, you might think that you can explain them away, and these people have done a good job in trying to explain them, but the fact remains, if the bible was the word of god, it would not have ANY contradictions... it would not need to be intreperted, because it would be in plain and easy to understand language... and not just one language, many languages, every language the human race has ever and will ever speak...

Anyway, that's just my opinion... and you're not going to be able to change it (much like i highly doubt that I'm going to be able to change yours, not that I would want to).. so lets just leave it at that.

Thank you

 

http://www.carm.org/40_objections/40-4.htm#_1_40

If the word of god is the bible, then why does the bible contradict itself?

You can't say one thing for one, and another thing for something else..

This has come from the very same site that tries to explain away the bible's contradictions, i'm sure that if you was to visit a universal unitarian website (the UU being an orginisatin that believes all paths end at the same place) I'm no doubt sure that they can explain away their own contradictions...

what does it prove at the end of the day? nothing at all!!

 

Excuse 1:
God isn't entirely sane (blaming something you made for what it does isn't exactly sane).

Excuse 2:
Something is lost in translation from original greek and hebrew. Which raises the question: why do you base your beliefs on it if you don't read greek/hebrew?

Excuse 3:
You just have to read it until you understand it. Telling someone that they have to reach an understanding of the bible is a great brainwashing technique. Do you feel the truth of the word of God yet? Anything you become sufficiently familiar with will become a comforting item. This is true. So if everyone becomes familiar with and has faith in the word of God (everyone is brainwashed) everyone will derive great joy from it. Is this a bad utopia to aim for? The only way to achieve this is to destroy everything that opposes it- all those who are not with me are against me.

 

AmandaN might as well write in large and red font:

"I WILL DELIBERATELY IGNORE ANY THINKING AND JUST DENY DENY DENY"

I mean seriously.. Im not 'flaming' Amanda. She read somewhere their is a 'Contradiction' between the geneologies.

Clearly and without any diversion or pretense - a thoughtful explanation is given for HER confusion:
Both Matthew 1 and Luke 3 contain genealogies of Jesus. But there is one problem. They are different. Luke's Genealogy starts at Adam and goes to David. Matthew's Genealogy starts at Abraham and goes to David. When the genealogies arrive at David, they split with David's sons: Nathan (Mary's side) and Solomon (Joseph's side).
There is no discrepancy because one genealogy is for Mary and the other is for Joseph. It was customary to mention the genealogy through the father even though it was clearly known that it was through Mary.

Now even if Amanda was stil confused or even interested in questioning it further - she could have read on and found out why, who and when these customs existed, were used and why they are different than today.

Instead.. without ANY explanation, reason, question or comment we get this:
"I'm still waiting for your excuse as to mathew and luke though..."

Amanda, you cleary have no intentions of actually trying to think about things, examine them or provide ANY original thoughts.

Please stick to your promise to stop posting.
If you were genuinely interested - then by all means challenge, fight and quarrel.
In your case - you are soley interested in being a contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian - facts be dammed.

 

"This contradiction was recognized by early Christian apologists, who lamely suggested that one evangelist or the other was actually presenting the genealogy of Mary, a notion unsupported by the text of either Gospel."

(Yes, I've copied and pasted, but for one purpose.. to back up what I've said here: http://hipforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=869485&postcount=142 - if the bible was the word of god, then it would not need intrepertation.. and yet we have two distinctly diffrent intrepertations because of this contradiction.. and it's the same for everything else in the bible)

 

But you dont even know why you are pasting that!

You honestly do not even know WHY you pasted that sentence.. what your pasting it 'against' and if it makes any sense at all LOL!

Just a post before hand - it CLEARLY explains, without any doubt or confusion why it is the geneology of Mary.

Its not even that difficult to understand... you simply look at it again, knowing it is the geneology of Mary and .. Yes, yes it IS.

You dont even know why your pasting a sentence in which 'some guy' calls it 'Lame' (and he himself doesnt even know why he said that lol!)

This is a perfect example of your intellectual dishonesty.
You are, in the definition of the word - Bluffing.

You dont have anything.. nothing at all - Just 'blindly' pasting 'contrarian' comments you 'think' you have read - then hoping no one will notice you are completely ignorant on the actual topic itself.

 

Heh... Actually my dear, satan is the dragon. The anitichrist is also refered to as the dragon.

In fact, when the antichrist comes, he will be a man of intelligence. He will speak with intellect. He will appear kind and as the Bible quotes, he shall destroy many with a false message of peace.

In Revelations 12, the dragon is refering to satan. The woman refers to both Mary (moons at her feet, crown of twelve stars on her head... look at Catholic paintings) and also Israel (God's chosen people).

The lamb always refers to Jesus. ALL denominations will tell you that.

The Bible itself even says that the ten horns upon the beast were ten kings.

The beats of Daniel's dream represent countries.

The lion represents Great Britain
The bear represents Russia
The leopard with four head represents Germany (four reichs)
and the Eagle's wings respresent America

As for Paul and his, "mad rantings". Paul was an intellectualist. The man spoke six different languages. With all of the knowledge he possessed, all of his wordly logic, he still humbled himself before God.

Maybe you should study these authors before you claim to believe you know anything about them.

 

You do make one point by saying that I mixed up "100" different arguments and perhaps I didn't give you a real change to answer.

You were how ever incorrect with this little prediction of yours;
"Yes.. you will say these are simply minor 'copy' errors which do not count as a real contradiction or 'flaw'."

Il rather say that the Quran is correct in every chapter, every part, every sentence, every word and every letter. This is not the place to discuss quran but to explain this litte "error" of yours Il say:
First of all you without having knowledge of this you did not count with the fact of how those who inherit are catorogized, these laws are very complicated I believe the whole Algebra(from arabic Al-Jabr) system used today came about to make it easier to see who gets what in this islamic system.

• Parents: Both parents shall receive one-sixth each, i.e., one-third of the total property.
• Wife: The wife shall receive one-eighth of the total property.
• Balance: The balance after giving away the shares of the first category of inheritors shall be 1-(1/3+1/8) = 1-(11/24) = 13/24
• Daughters: The three daughters shall equally share two-third of the balance of the property and assets of the deceased after the shares of all the inheritors of the first category have been given. 13/24 x 2/3 = 13/36; share of each daughter shall be 13/36 x 1/3 = 13/108
• Total: The total shares distributed shall be 1/3+1/8+(13/108 x 3) = 11/24+13/36= 59/72
• Balance: The balance (i.e., 1-59/72 = 13/72) shall be given to the person bequeathed by the deceased; in the absence of such a person, it shall be given to the closest male relative of the deceased; in the absence of such a relative, the balance shall be distributed as per the regulations of the state of residence of the deceased.

There is not a single imaginable case, where the total shares assigned by the Qur'an exceed 1.

Now answer this and Its only one question, shouldn't give you too much trouble.

I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. (From the NIV Bible, 1 Timothy 2:12)"

For the third time now! IS THIS THE WORDS OF PAUL OR THE WORDS OF GOD? WHY DO WE FIND CHRISTIANS WOMEN PRIESTS, ARE THEY SINNING?
Either you dont follow paul beacause a) you don't think this is the words of Allah(may he be exalted) but the words of man(eg paul) or b) you think its wrong(is the laws of the Lord wrong?) and do not mind sinning.

The genealogy mentioned here could not be that of Marys as you say, It could not possibly account for any differences after their common ancestor David(peace be upon him)! Both lists meet again at Abraham(peace be upon him) and between him and David(peace be upon him) the names are pretty much the same. However in Matthews list, Hezrons sons name is Ram, the father of Ammin'adab, while in Lukes list, Hezrons sons name is Arni whose sons name is Admin, the father of Ammin'adab, very odd indeed! Further more lukes list mentiones 13 names while Matthews list mentions 12 names between Abraham and David(peace be upon them)

Contrary to Amanda I am willing to hear your explanation sense a contradiction is not one if it could be explained. Your explanation about the drink and color of the clothes of Jesus(peace be upon him) was quite acceptable according to your scripture but now I want you to make us understand Marys visit at the tomb and this very twisted genealogy!

 

Actually my dear, satan is the dragon. The anitichrist is also refered to as the dragon.
In fact, when the antichrist comes, he will be a man of intelligence. He will speak with intellect. He will appear kind and as the Bible quotes, he shall destroy many with a false message of peace.
In Revelations 12, the dragon is refering to satan.
The beats of Daniel's dream represent countries.
The lion represents Great Britain
The bear represents Russia
The leopard with four head represents Germany (four reichs)
and the Eagle's wings respresent America
Epiphany


I am curious how you know these things are what the texts meant. Why is the bear Russia? I thought there were only three reichs. It is not as clear to me as it is to you, for sure.
I am a man of intelligence,(or so our school system says), I speak with a reasonable degree of intellect. I am kind. And born in 1964, Year of the Dragon. My first name means born of fire, and I support a message of peace.
I am pretty sure I'm not Old Nick though.

 

For crying out loud! If you don't agree with us, and you want this thread to die, STOP POSTING IN IT!!

You keep saying that you don't have the energy, you disagree and that is that, yet you just HAVE to keep posting a reply.

And you're talking shit about the bible and it's validity? You can't even keep your own word.

 

I know I will never be able to work out Ancient Algebra and Modern Algebra - but I do agree with the concept of explanation.

There have been several instances in which mathematical (or measurements) in the Bible have been critisised as being 'Contradictions' or 'Errors'.
Critics never take into consideration there are historical exceptions, lost (or ancient) measurements.

For one example - Recent Archaeology will find one region (at some time) had a different 'Cubit' than another region at another time.

Not much different than modern days Americans have a different meaning for a 'Billion' than modern day British have.

If British and American Authors were describing the same economy - it would be easy for someone to have caught them 'contradicting each other' whenever a 'Billion' was used.

Anyway... I am simply saying that there can be difficulties (to the unwitting) when it comes to certain ancient mathematics, their historical context and the very peculiar ways certain cultures arranged their numerical concepts.

So I do appreciate the explanation for the what 'seems' to be an error in the Koran.

 

There were four reichs

Daniel 9:27:4 "The first was like a lion (Britian's emblem) and it had the winds of an eagle. (America's emblem). I watched until it's wings were torn off (United States came out of Great Britain) and it was lifted from the ground so that it stood on two feet like a mn, and the heart of a man it was given to. (Uncle Sam).

verse 5: "And there before me was a second beat, which looked like a bear. (Russia's emblem). I already discribed the rest in the other post

Verse 6: "After that, I looked and there before me was another beat, one that looked like a leopard (I am not quite sure what the wings stand for here). This beat had four heads (four reichs) and it was given the authority to rule" (Germany has started that last three major wars).

Mutiple heads signify the times that a nation will rise and will.

In revelations, John sees these four beats merge into one (meaning they join together to form an alliance).

He also goes on to say that one of heads is wounded. Germany is dead. Hitler's third reich was cut in two.

The Berlin wall falls
"this division that festers like a rust knife wound must someday be healed" (USA Today, august 14, 1986)

"the 25 mile wound that won't heal"
Berlin wall fell, november 1989

"the wall of shame, 1961-1989", "It wa the most palpable evidence of a deep wound in european civilization- and it's finally gone" (Time, november 20, 1989)

 

You know what... this all sounds a hell of a lot like intrepertation to me...

 

The more I ask the more interested I become, now once again, is this the words of Paul or the words of the Creator? Are all women priests sinning, either a) You believe this is the words of The Lord but still refuse to accept it, thus refusing "the words of Allah"(may he be exalted) or b) You do not believe that this is from the Creator but from Paul, thus believing that the bible is not the words of God or c) You believe in it and follow it.
Now what is the case?

I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. (From the NIV Bible, 1 Timothy 2:12)"


And verily, among them is a party who distort the Book with their tongues, so that you may think it is from the Book, but it is not from the Book, and they say: This is from Allah, but it is not from Allah؛ and they speak a lie against Allah while they know it[Quran 3.78]

 

hehe: http://www.jhuger.com/biblethumpers.mv

 

Of course it does

 

Is that not what I've been trying to say all along tho? if it's down to intrepertation, how do you know that you have the correct intrepertation... (you yourself in another thread said something about intrepertation as a dangerous thing, so why do you do it?)

If it was the word of god, it would not need to be intreperted, it would be plain and simple. but it's not.. it's full of contradictions, errors and basic lies... Do you see why I have such a hard time believeing the bible as nothing more than a collection of fables... mythology...

 

It is this concept of "faith" that is most perplexing to most non-Christians, especially when it comes to God. God is something that thinking, searching, contemplating non-Christians shall always wonder about, ponder, and never have a complete understanding of, until we join God in Heaven. It is the spiritual Gift of Faith, given to us by the Holy Spirit, often when we finally realize there are questions without answers; when we realize there must be more "out there" than just the physical world; when we realize there must be more to our existence than just living, struggling, fighting to survive and then dying; when we finally accept Jesus, accept the belief/fact that He died on the cross for our sins, accept that God raised Him from the dead and that we likewise will be raised from the dead, to live in heaven with God forever.

What matters is the essence, the meaning of the Bible, having faith, and believing that Jesus is Savior. Your faith should also tell you it is important to live your life by the Bible; do what you can in life, for God, others and the world, with what you have been given to work with; and always strive for more faith, more understanding, more love and more to work with.

Once again not that I need proof for myself, but if it isn't the words of God, how do you explain the scientific accuracy of the Bible? All I need is my ever so strong faith.

Evidence of divine inspiration is found in the fact that many of the principles of modern science were recorded as facts of nature in the Bible long before scientist confirmed them experimentally. A sampling of these would include:

Roundness of the earth (Isaiah 40:22)

Almost infinite extent of the sidereal universe (Isaiah 55:9)

Law of conservation of mass and energy (II Peter 3:7)

Hydrologic cycle (Ecclesiastes 1:7)

Vast number of stars (Jeremiah 33:22)

Law of increasing entropy (Psalm 102:25-27)

Paramount importance of blood in life processes (Leviticus 17:11)

Atmospheric circulation (Ecclesiastes 1:6)

Gravitational field (Job 26:7)

There are about 1,000 prophecies altogether in the Bible, approximately 800 in the Old Testament and 200 in the New Testament.

 

If the word of God was plain and simple, then more people would be saved. If the word of God was easily understood, we would not even have to have this conversation.


Regardless of what I say, since you do not possess the understanding of God's nature, it simply will not make any sense to you, and will only leave you room for debate. Though I was born and raised learning about God from three different, prominent religious denominations, there were many things in the Bible that were not of my understanding. Because these religious leaders did not possess God's Spirit, they could not explain, so they merely referred to it as, "God's devine mystery." If God wanted everything to be a complete mystery, then what would be the point in serving him? If he never reaveled himself to anyone, then no one would have salvation. You forgot that while God exists, Satan exsists as well. What is in God's light, Satan it opposed to. God has a spirit and so does satan. While God's spirit will reveal his will, Satan's spirit will use anything it can to keep you from choosing the Lord. Hence, why all these different religious factions continually argue amonst themsevles. God works on his own terms. He chose for the Bible to be written in code so that for us to want to possess an understanding, we must desire to seek him out. When we desire him, he promises to reveal to us what his word means. I was baptized as an infant, which was clearly not my choice. It was not until I was baptized of my own free will, and recieved the baptism of the Holy Spirit, that he began to show me his understanding.


Do I understand every single thing? No... I have only been in the Spirit for a year now. I have plently of seeking before me. While I am still a baby in Christ, he has shown me rather rapidly what his word stands for.

I am not ordained by God to be a Pastor. I do not possess the spiritual gift of prophecy. I do not possess the spiritual gift of interpretation of tongues. I have remission of my sins through baptism (meaning, I denounced my wordlyness) and I have his Spirit for guidance. As a child of God, I am called to be a witness. I am called to share what I do know. The more that is revealed to me, the more I share.


You can choose on your own whether or not you wish to believe in the Bible. I will promise you, however, that if you were to experience Christ, you would not wish to go back to life as it is.

 

Thank you for reiterating those facts. They seemed to be looked past so often.