Prove to me the bible is real...

"I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now? Reality leaves a lot to the imagination." - John Lennon

 

PS, I personally want this thread to die... i have to admit that I jumped in at the deep end, and that was a bit silly of me.. i stand by what I say, but next time I need some more research..

If anyone else cares to take over what I've started, please feel free, i'm keen on seeing where this goes... but I don't really want to be involved in it anymore.. (oh, but Quetzalcoatl, i'm still keen on you telling me who and what you think I am... i've been called many things.. but christian is not one of them).

 

Who are you trying to dupe here? Let's forget about these "typos" and examine these instead:


Judas died how?

"And he cast down the pieces of silver into the temple and departed, and went out and hanged himself." (Matt. 27:5)
"And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out." (Acts 1:18)


Mary at the tomb
When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus' body. Very early on the first day of the week, just after sunrise, they were on their way to the tomb [mark 16]

Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance.[John 20]

In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre
And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.[Matthew 28]

The gospel of Mark, Luke and John say that she found the stone rolled away when she arrived while Matthew say an angel came down and rolled away it. How can one fix such a contradiction?

The scripture translator Benjamin Wilson gives the following explanation for this action in his "Emphatic Diaglott." Mr. Wilson says:

"This text concerning the heavenly witness is not contained in any Greek manuscript which was written earlier than the fifteenth century. It is not cited by any of the ecclesiastical writers; not by any of early Latin fathers even when the subjects upon which they treated would naturally have lead them to appeal to it's authority. It is therefore evidently spurious."

Once again, IS THIS THE WORD OF PAUL OR THE WORD OF THE LORD??

I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. (From the NIV Bible, 1 Timothy 2:12)
ANSWER ME!

Some things in the bible make your head hurt, look at these following verses and tell me if they are truth;

[Gen. 32:22]
Jacob wrestled God who said to him, "Let me go; for the day is breaking" But Jacob said, "I will not let you go unless you bless me. And he said to him,"What is your name? And he said "Jacob" Then the Lord said, "Your name shall be no more called Jacob but Israel, for you have striven with God and with men, and have prevailed. Then Jacob asked him, "Tell me, I pray your name. But he said, "Why is it that you ask my name?"

And there he blessed him. So Jacob called the name of the place "Pen'el"
saying: For I have seen God face to face."

DOES ALLAH NEED TO REFRESH ?!
------------------------------
[Exo. 31:17]
For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day herested, and was refreshed.


DOES HE REGRET ?!
-----------------
[Gen. 6:6]
And the Lord was sorry that he made man on the earth, and it grieved him to
his heart. [he said]:
[Gen 6:7] "For I am sorry that I have made them."

I see that there are many christian women here, do you agree with these verses below?

WOMAN IS NOT THE GLORY OF GOD
-----------------------------
[1 Corin. 11:7]
For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man, for man was not made for woman, but woman from man, neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.

WOMAN IS EVIL !
---------------
[Zech. 5:7]
The leaden cover was lifted, there was a woman sitting, and he (the angel)said: this is wickedness.

HIDE WOMAN'S VOICE !
---------------------
[1 Corin. 14:34]
The woman should keep silence in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. If there is any thing they desire to know let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.


MARRIAGE BY FORCE !!
--------------------
[Deut. 25:5]
If brothers dwell together, and one of them dies and has no son, the wife of the dead shall not be marries outside of the family to a stranger; her
husband's brother shall go into her, and take her as his wife

I find more bitter than death the woman who is a snare, whose heart is a trap and whose hands are chains. The man who pleases God will escape her, but the sinner she will ensnare." "Look," says the Teacher, "this is what I have discovered: "Adding one thing to another to discover the scheme of things-while I was still searching but not finding- I found one upright man among a thousand, but not one upright woman among them all." Ecclesiastes 7:26-28

"...if a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days...but if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks..." Leviticus 12:2-5

I usually sit with this real orthodox christian boy at school and once he said to me while discussing: Women are indeed the instrument of the devil"
I looked at him in suprise asked if he didn´t go to far there but appearently according to the bible they are.

And if a man sell his daughter to be a maid-servant, she shall not go out as the men-servants do. 8 If she please not her master, who hath espoused her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed; to sell her unto a foreign people he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her. 9 And if he espouse her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters. [Exodus
SELLING ONCE DAUGHTER, Im not suprised sense the bible also says;
The birth of a daughter is a loss" (Ecclesiasticus 22:3).

If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives"
Deuteronomy 22:28-30

WHO IS BEING PUNISHED HERE??

Answer me christians! You say the bible is the word of God, then do you follow this, do you believe that your mother was a loss?

 

How dare you people pose such blasphemies against Allah(may he be exalted) such as saying that God needs to rest, and that he regrets? What about the prophets, are they not as perfect as you can get? Then why do we find in the bible verses about david;
[2.Sam. 11:1]
David arose from his couch and was walking upon the roof that he saw
from the roof a WOMAN BATHING; and the woman was very beautiful, and
David sent and enquired about the woman. And one said, "Is not that
Bathshe'ba, the daughter of Eli'am, the wife of Uri'ah the Hittite?"

So David send messengers and took her, and SHE CAME TO HIM AND HE
LAY WITH HER.. Then she returned to her house; and she sent and told
David, I am with child. David called her husband, and invited him,
and ate in his presence and drank, so that he made him drunk. In the
morning David wrote to Jo'ab, "Set Uri'ah in the forefront of the
hardest fighting, and then draw back from him, that he may be struck
down and die. When he died David sent and brought Uri'ah's wife to his house, and
she became his wife.

Do you really want us to believe such things, even worse is what you say about Lot(peace be upon him), did this great man sleep with his own daughters as the bible says, did Solomon(peace be upon him) commit the worst of sin and worshipped idols.
You seem to never seize to suprise me christians, you believe in verses that you like and disbelieve in others...

 

Luke 24 v 10 ..Mary Magdalene, and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them.

 

this is where i stand well clear.. if there is going to be an argument between christans and muslims on the intrepertation of the bible.. i want nothing to do with it...

You guys have fun tho..

 

...

 

I said that you suck at being 'Anti-Christian'.

Why?

Because so far you have not been able to do anything but 'announce' what side your on.
Annouce what you think must be true (but no actual explanation)

Then you simple 'Denounce' anything you 'think' sounds like its 'pro-christian' without any actual explanation, reason or account.

So really.. you suck at this.
Lets see a perfect example of why you actually suck so much:

See how you just 'Disagree' and are 'against' something but you dont actually explain why you have looked at that epochs numerical characters - then given reason why the 6 could not be a '5'.

Thats ok if you refuse to believe a typo has occured - but then you might want to explain why you DO believe this text was 'made up' and yet.. why a simple but glaring contradiction would be LEFT IN?

Dont just announce "hahahah IT IS!" (Lame)

Explain why you think the writers could or would contradict each other... then why no one noticed for centuries after centuries?

Here again we see why you suck at this....
You CLEARLY agree the wrong numeral has not been covered up.

I CLEARLY explained, exposed and demonstrated that the incorrect numeral is not being covered up.

You have not explained why all human agencies, fields of study and cultures recognise a difference between a 'Typo' (or Copy Error) and what is called a contradiction.
Courts, Editors, Language experts make the clear distinction.

Please explain why you do not?

You cant - thats why you suck at this.
simple 'Announcing' that you have decided its not a typo but a contradiction is lame.
Who cares.
Kids can 'announce' whos 'side' they 'really want to be on'.

Lets see some more of you sucking...

'You' dont have a Matthew and Luke Problem.
You google 'bible contradictions' and picked a page on Matthew and Luke and simply 'Announced' it.

When asked to explain why, where and what you agreed with on that page - you vanished. (This is called 'sucking')

The lamest thing.. you pretend like your the one 'STILL' waiting (Intellectual dishonesty)
Then you actually attempt to be 'smart' by asking me if 'Thats a Typo Too?'
(Extreme Lameness)

Is what a Typo too?

The problem 'you' have with Matthew and Luke but YOU still havent revealed?

And this really sucks on your part too - you tried to run away from the Typo issue without ever doing anything but 'Denounce' just about every scholar on the planet.

Ok lets see if you can pull off anything effective...

know it well?
You dont even have the foggiest clue what you are pretending to be debating about!
Have you ever even SEEN a Bible!?

Now you make this hilarious 'appeal to authority'- citing .. hehehehe.. BG13 NO LESS.. as some 'Authority' on the Bible (because he read three different translations!)

Ok.

a) BlackGuard is from the Lower Mainland and by location alone that makes him weird.
b) BlackGuards brain is made up of approx 63% drugs
c) BlackGuard is borderline legally retarded.

Granted, he is also very endearing and on occasion accidently fucking hilarious!

Trust me.. BlackGuard is not on your side of the fence.. he falls back and forth over the fence several time ...and then somehow manages to get himself stuck between the pickets ...where he struggles but only makes himself wedged in more awkwardly.

You never actually reveal your 'research'. You simply 'announce' you have some special knowledge (which we never get to see).

Your research must be incredibly brief and shoddy though - you appear to have no knowledge about this subject.

Even Suckier... you have already made 'conclusions'. wow.

Ok well lets see this research and what YOU THINK OF IT.

Why cant you list them out?

Why not just give us one example, then dont just suck by simply 'pasting' it.
Actually explain WHY YOU agree its a contradiction.
Then have the balls to respond to the replies.
Explain WHY you dont agree with the replies.

Dont just 'announce' they are wrong and you somehow secretly just 'Know' what is 'Fact'.

Some tips to help you not suck.

 

“Allah loveth not the aggressor." The Qu’ran​

​

​

cabdirazz, I have noticed the occasional instance of aggression by followers of Allah. Is that not blasphemous against Allah?​

​

cabdirazzaqHow dare you people pose such blasphemies against Allah​

How dare you denounce so vehemently the sincere faith of equally spiritual people.


Allah, Yahweh, God, by any name, it is the same one who is worshipped. God does not play favourites, imho.

 

Ok.

a) BlackGuard is from the Lower Mainland and by location alone that makes him weird.
b) BlackGuards brain is made up of approx 63% drugs
c) BlackGuard is borderline legally retarded.

Granted, he is also very endearing and on occasion accidently fucking hilarious!

Trust me.. BlackGuard is not on your side of the fence.. he falls back and forth over the fence several time ...and then somehow manages to get himself stuck between the pickets ...where he struggles but only makes himself wedged in more awkwardly.
Quetzalcoatl


It is nice to see you too, BT.

 

P.S. I hope you can find one example of me being inconsistent in my posts. One.......I fucking dare you, black plumed serpent guy.
You won't be able to, cuz before I even joined this forum, my opinions on this stuff was on a very solid foundation.

 

Cabdirraz Said:

"Shall we try again?

Who are you trying to dupe here? Let's forget about these "typos" and examine these instead:
===============================================

Cab.. you of all people are well aware of what a 'Typo' is.
I can even find Typos in your posts
I can find Typos in AmandaN's posts too..

If I accused either of you of 'Contradicting' yourselves - you would instantly reply back protesting "I ONLY MISPELLED THE WORD.. thats NOT Contradicting myself!!!!!"

In your '101' contradictions - you pointed out just 1 or 2 Copy Errors (Typos) which were only one wrong numeral.

And these were numerals which had nothing to do with the actual intended message, teaching or thought being communicated.

What do you say when the same (if not much more serious) mathematical errors are found in the Koran?

Sura 4:11-12 and 4:176 state the Qur'anic inheritance law. When a man dies, and is leaving behind three daughters, his two parents and his wife, they will receive the respective shares of 2/3 for the 3 daughters together, 1/3 for the parents together [both according to verse 4:11] and 1/8 for the wife [4:12] which adds up to more than the available estate. A second example: A man leaves only his mother, his wife and two sisters, then they receive 1/3 [mother, 4:11], 1/4 [wife, 4:12] and 2/3 [the two sisters, 4:176], which again adds up to 15/12 of the available property.

Yes.. you will say these are simply minor 'copy' errors which do not count as a real contradiction or 'flaw'.

And Cab.. once again you are being intellectually dishonest by simply pasting dozens and dozens of scriptures - each requiring there own thread and at least a good exchange of solutions, explanation and discussions.

You do this in HOPE there WILL NOT BE time for a discussion.

That type of unreasonable 'tactic' is contrary to your own Korans teachings you know.

 

What's wrong with the mathew vs luke one? sure, i found the information about it on the internet.. (in actual fact, i first read about it in the book 'the age of reason' by thomas paine, then went searching on the internet about it), I even looked it up in the bible itself just to make sure the website and book were not yanking my chain

As both I, and the website (and the book, and the bible), say, mathew and luke both contradict each other on several occations when refering to the birth of jesus. one of the biggest contraductions being joseph's linage..

why is is a contradiction? why do I think it's a contradiction? - BECAUSE THEY BOTH SAY TOTALLY DIFFRENT THINGS!!! I don't understand why you're finding it so hard to understand this concept...

You've still not answered that one tho, have you? I admit this might be my only valid argument.. and i admit I got it from the internet (which is still a valid resource I believe, and I did check and double check by looking in the bible aswell)

instead you choose to launch an PERSONAL ATTACK on ME... I've already said that I'm no expert in this field, and that maybe it was a bit of a large undertaking for me to start this thread, and as I've already said, i want to try and take a side step away from the action and see what everyone else has to say.. But that wasn't good enough for you, you had to pound me into the ground.

So please, i admit defeat... i stand by what I say, but i have neither the resources or energy to fight this battle... let me be.. feel free to explain the whole mathew vs luke thing, but don't resourt to bullying to do it...

 

Instead of me simply 'announcing' something back to you...

I will let you in on a little secret - The geneologies do not contradict each other.

Its getting late and BG13 is making me laugh again - so tomorrow I will explain why Matthew and Luke's Geneologies definately do not contradict each other.

 

If you had prophecy about the future, let's so, oh, 2000 years from now.... what you describe would sound odd as well. New inventions that you did not know the name of and strange images would leave you calling things by odd names. Go back 100 years in history. The idea of the computer would be strange and scary to someone alive during that time. Think about how they would try and describe it.

You knock the Bible because you do not understand it. People tend to take a defensive against things they do not understand. I am aware of that. It is called, "human nature". Look at it this way, if I did not know you, and I read your diary, as a human being, I would make some assumptions about you that may or may not hold any truth. Let's say that in this diary, you spoke often of sex. Even though in reality you may not be having sex, reading about it all the time, one may assume that you are a slut. However, they only gathered that from what they read. The same thing with the Bible. You have no knowledge of God, therefore, his word is merely grounds for your own assumptions.

The Bible text was original written in Greek and Hebrew. Unfortunately, there are discrepencies in translation. There are words in the Bible that, if you refer to Greek and Hebrew, do not have the same meaning in English.

Jesus did tell his apostles to go out and preach the word in ALL nations. We have missionaries today for that very purpose. We have missionaries for the fact that not every nation cares or wants to know God. God's very own people crucified him on a cross because they did not understand. Jesus often rebuked Jewish leaders and bluntly told them that while they claimed they were the children of the Lord, Satan was their father in reality. If they knew the Lord, they would not have nailed him to a cross. God said that people will abandon the faith and cling to deceiving spirits.

I shall refrain from what I was going to say, since I already know it will be taken the wrong way. But it has to do with the fact that idol worship is prominent in third world countries.

With the help of missionaries, there have been numerous people in different parts of the world that have come to know the Lord.

Like I said, I understand completely how you want to reason the Bible logically. When you come to know him, which I pray that you do, you will come to understand his word. If this were a conversation on Psychology or Science, we would be using logic. The mysteries of God are not revealed in logic or reasoning. If they were, we would not be having this conversation.


Even Peter stated, "Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophey own imagination. For prophecy never had it's origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."

"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him and he cannot understand them because they are spiritually discerned." (1 corinthians 2:14) Paul stated this, knowing it would occur.


By the way, Satan is the dragon.

 

Nothing I say is going to change your opinion, so I'm not going to waste my time trying to convert you or anything (not that I'm trying to convert you in the first place just show you my own opinion)... so i'll leave it at this:

Needless to say, I disagree with you.

BTW, paul knew that people would ignore his mad rantings because he was challanging the status quo... and nobody likes change, so he justified it by calling them "spiritually discerned" (which sounds a hell of a lot like an insult if you ask me) - obviously he knew it would happen... I know that if I was go running around telling people that I was friends with a dragon, no one would believe me... come on, that just needs a bit of common sence.

(Oh, and satan is not the dragon, that's nothing but a cheep shot on your behanf, you should be ashamed of yourself for even thinking like that... I chose dragons - rather than, say, faries - because I'm a keen RPG gamers, and dragons often play a large part in role play games - mostly as kind and intellegent beings, more often than not peaceful being just wanting to protect themselves. - but once again, if nothing else, this has proven my point that everything is down to intrepertation... you've intreperted my dragon as satan, where as my view of my dragon was one of kindness, intellegence and peace).

 

Yeah, the living embodiment of kindness, intelligence, and peace is Tiamat.

 

Someone might pretend their friend had magic powers.
But 12 people all pretending to have the same story.. ok maybe.

But 12 people who go on to dedicate their lives to this ruse? alright maybe but it seems unlikely 12 people could all keep it straight . ..

Now here is where I have a big problem - When they get caught, persecuted and sentenced to death over this fake-story.

I think, if you had people willing to 'scam up a story' for personal gain - you would definately have some of the same people confess to save their own lives.

One thing seems certain - The Disciples themselves definately believed their own stories.


ps.. AmandaN - Epiphany is refering to a description of Satan in Revelations. Satan is described as 'The Dragon' or 'A Dragon'.
Im sure no personal offence towards your online characters was intended.

 

i've taken a side step, i will no longer be posting any of my own ideas because I don't have the energy to keep up with this right now (it was fun for a while, but now i;ve got more important things I need to be doing)..

I'm still waiting for your excuse as to mathew and luke though...

 

it's no contradiction, it's a prove that Jesus is decending from king David as prophecied, both in legal and bloodline. If you wanna find out, read this article (don't worry, it's not that long): http://www.carm.org/diff/2geneologies.htm