Prove it.

Discussion in 'Mind Games' started by xDeceitfullyYoursx, May 3, 2007.

  1. This is an excerpt from my philosophy class at the college, and I'd like to see how people would argue it.

    Now, in the words of my prof...

    "Wipe your minds clear of all of your memories. You were just created last week - on Sunday. The memories in your head were planted there by the people that created you; the people that created themselves. Everything that you believe is real, is fake. The world - the universe!! - was all just created on Sunday. Think of it as a bit of the Matrix, I guess. Nothing is older than a week, you are a week old and were created as you are - a teenager, or an adult. You were never a child, never a baby -- you never learned how to ride a bike, to swim, your ABC's. It was all implanted into your body when you were created.

    Prove to me, class, that this is wrong, while still keeping in mind that you were created last week. Prove to me, class, that the Earth has been around for thousands of years. And that you were once born - not created."

    Now, to me this is quite the interesting theory. o_O; I'd hate to live in a world like that xD;!

    My reasoning was this: In order to be created, the creator had to have been created before the created were able to be created, and therefore the creator had to have been creative to create the created that exist now. (My prof LOVES answers like that @_@)

    There couldn't have just been a "POOF! Existance!" thing happening, right? (Even though in the bible it says "blah blah God said, and so there it was";;; whereas scientists say there was a BOOM!!! and then there it was) Granted there is the fact that the molecular combination of any two substances could indeed induce such an outcome -- humans are not just created. They are made. Humans consist of trillions of different components; cells, molecules, atoms, elements. You can't just wave a wand and create one.

    And for the whole Earth to just 'happen' - how would we know? There are documents that testify the Earth existing for thousands of years. Remember though, prof reminds me, everything is fake and made to SEEM like everything, including yourself, has been around. Prove that you were born and not created.

    Of course then you get into religious discussions and scientifict theories (God I love this class), and then eventually you come to the conclusion that: No, you can't prove it.

    You can't prove how the Earth was made; you can't prove how humans were created (or evolved, for those Scientologists out there). Simply put, you can't prove ANYTHING.

    My challenge to anyone reading this and is ready for a deep, intelligent conversation, is this:

    Prove to me that something can be proven.

    Or, prove that it can't.

  2. sourdiesel06

    sourdiesel06 Member

    Physical scars of past injuries that have healed... other than that, there isn't much to say.
  3. Nalencer

    Nalencer Dig Yourself

    You think these "creators" can't put on a scar to go with your memory? That's fucking weak.

    Anyway, that's just philosophy. You can't prove it one way or another. You just have to know. I know that I am more than just a lump of cells, and that I've been around for a lot longer than a week. I've been around forever. I'm all that really exists. We are all part of the great "I", which is infinite and the only thing that's really real.
  4. sourdiesel06

    sourdiesel06 Member

    That's weak because by asking someone to answer that question, you put them in an unwinnable situation. Trust me, if there was a magic right answer, you wouldn't be pondering the same questions as ancient Greek philophers in your little intro to philosophy class.

    Do you really think I hadn't considered the possibilty that these "creators" had planted scars. I challenge you to find an answer that I can't say the exact same fucking thing about.
  5. Krsna Bhakti

    Krsna Bhakti d-_-b JAMMING

    Dawn of light lying between a silence and sold sources,
    Chased amid fusions of wonder, in moments hardly seen forgotten,
    Coloured in pastures of chance dancing leaves cast spells of challenge,
    Amused but real in thought, we fled from the sea whole.
    Dawn of thought transfered through moments of days undersearching earth
    Revealing corridors of time provoking memories, disjointed but with purpose,
    Craving penetrations offer links with the self instructors sharp
    And tender love as we took to the air, a picture of distance.
    Dawn of our power we amuse redescending as fast as misused
    Expression, as only to teach love as to reveal passion chasing
    Late into corners, and we danced from the ocean.
    Dawn of love sent within us colours of awakening among the many
    Won't to follow, only tunes of a different age.
    As the links span our endless caresses for the freedom of life everlasting.
  6. sourdiesel06

    sourdiesel06 Member

    The silence is deafening.
  7. floydianslip6

    floydianslip6 Senior Member

    Your question, as with most presentist-esque metaphysical theories has a large gap in logic.

    If everything has been implanted into my head, I have no concept of my creation what-so-ever. I can easily prove that the world is 1,000 years old and have everyone else that was created going along with me since every piece of knowledge we all have suggests that. Will I be correct in "reality" no, because we were all created last Sunday according to you. However, what's real and true on such a grand timeline is unimportant since our knowledge will always be based on previous ideas we have created so their actual truthfullness will be unknown regardless.

    So why is it that you believe it's impossible? Because you haven't put yourself in the world where you were created last Sunday, instead you've just imagined giving advice to someone in that situation. Since if you were in that situation, you'd realize that everyone else was too.

    One more thing; this doesn't mean that NO answer is correct, on the contrary, EVERY answer is correct.
  8. floydianslip6

    floydianslip6 Senior Member

    Scientologists are not people that believe in science as the truth. FAR from it. Scientologists believe that we are all dead unfrozen space alien ghosts. Do some reading, it's pretty stupid. Especially when you consider that it's a school of thought that FAVORS the rich and requires money to advance, and the creator, L. Ron Hubbard was quoted as saying "if you want to be a millionaire start a religion"
  9. Nalencer

    Nalencer Dig Yourself

    I already said there isn't one. But that doesn't make yours any less stupid.
  10. sourdiesel06

    sourdiesel06 Member

    Something is only stupid if there is a better alternative. So unless you can provide one, go fuck yourself.
  11. Nalencer

    Nalencer Dig Yourself

    That's not true at all. That's terrible logic. You're just pissed because you didn't think before you spoke and ended up looking like a moron.
  12. sourdiesel06

    sourdiesel06 Member

    Well as ridiculously smart as you may be, your criticism carries no weight until you provide a better answer. Your theory of "the great 'I'" certainly doesn't get the job done. Tell me, Tommy Tough Nuts, if you are more than just a lump of cells, then how have you existed forever in any meaningful way. You can't tell me that the elements that make up your body have been around forever and therefore so have you, because that implies that you ARE, in fact, nothing more than a mere lump of cells.
  13. Of course, everyone is going to look like a moron when you cannot see, but only what you are taught to see. You are only seeing things with you eyes, you are thinking about what you see and thinking about what you think. Stop being so goddamned thoughful and act or nothing you does really matter.
  14. sourdiesel06

    sourdiesel06 Member

    BTW, in defense of my original post, if all of creation was created last week as the original poster stated, then how would the creators know that living things get scars when wounds heal improperly, or what they would look like. Sure, this wouldn't tip you off right away, but anybody as intellectually gifted and observant as yourself would certainly notice over time. Which brings me to two more points...
    1. How could these creators possibly produce an accurate representation of the human experience in your memory if humans didn't exist until they created them. Unless you are talking about an omnipotent God figure, and I didn't get the impression that you were, then I don't believe that it would be possible, therefore proving that this particular scenario did not happen.

    2. Since we experience time in only one direction how then, is a memory which exists in your mind and in the memory of everyone else involved, but never happened any different than a memory that actually did happen. Memories are nothing more than experiences, and a memory that never happened is just as real in the present as one that did. People create false memories all the time, but does that make those memories any less valid? If every bit of my experience says that I wasn't created last week, then as far as I'm concerned, I wasn't created last week, but more like 19 plus years ago.
  15. Good point, logic does not escape you. Like many others that have visited this site.
  16. Nalencer

    Nalencer Dig Yourself

    Because the body is an illusion, just like everything else except the infinite one. And I believe one would be accounted more wise for realizing there is no answer to a question than constantly pushing one that is wrong because no one can come up with the right one.

    As far as your second post, if the human race was created last Sunday, then I guess the creators decided what happens when you get hurt. I guess they decided on scars. Big deal. Now stop being such a fucking asshole.
  17. sourdiesel06

    sourdiesel06 Member

    You're right... there's no answer, so lets just delete the philosophy forums. There's usually no answer there, so there's no point in discussing it. Why are you so opposed to healthy debate. I believe that it's impossible for a being like the one described in the first post to predict the nature of the entire human experience unless that being is God. You apparently believe that it is. You call me a fucking asshole but notice, I'm not the one resorting to childish name calling OVER THE INTERNET.
  18. Nalencer

    Nalencer Dig Yourself

  19. Piney

    Piney Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

    I would visit the Flushing Meadows Fairgrounds in Queens, NY.

    I would visit the old NY State Pavilion of the 1964-65 Worlds Fair.
    there it sits, a rusting hulk
    due to budget reasons ( of course )
    " we need a tax hike, on the rich "

    Closed due to safty reasons.


    The visions of youth, rusting away.
    Yesterdays dream
    speaking to us across the ages.
    through a palor of rust and grime.

  20. Nalencer

    Nalencer Dig Yourself

    ... what?

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