Protests, Again. Is Free Speech Possible Anymore?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/04/16/police-arrest-at-least-20-as-protesters-clash-at-pro-trump-rally-in-berkeley.html
In this story the dialog from the Fox guy is all about Trump releasing his taxes. Seems like protesting the taxes should be a greater priority since they squeeze far more of us than they do Trump.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2017/04/15/trump-fans-and-foes-clash-in-berkeley-sparking-violence-multiple-arrests/#comments
This one is more focused on the issues between Trump "fans" and self-proclaimed patriot versus those who claim to be Anarchists and "Anti-Fascists" (a term first coined by Winston Churchill). What I noticed in the picture is something I see often, people pouring diluted milk into the eyes of people who have been maced or sprayed with pepper. The thing is, you really need whole milk for this. It's the fat content that takes away the burn. Buttermilk would be even better. Water is only a marginal treatment since the painful product is usually oil based.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Su7x90QgtA
As I watch this one it seems more and more like there are no actual protests going on here. Just people looking for a convenient way to deliver various forms of sucker punches to other people. Since so many of them are proudly doing their best to shut down the discussion, I can't help but wonder what is driving them. It sure isn't free speech. Also the weapons and masks make it pretty obvious that some are not there to "protest".

I personally encourage free speech because it shows us who is who. We can readily identify the assholes and the serious contenders when they open their mouths. So why would anyone think shutting them down is a good idea? It doesn't shut them up. It doesn't change their minds. It doesn't erase their opinion.

And a Happy Ishtar folks, braised rabbit and quail eggs for brunch today!

 

The protests are real in the sense that people are angry and desire change but, other than that, the lights are on but nobody is home which is exactly why such protests are tolerated so long as they remain somewhat peaceful and don't disrupt business. In fact, many business welcome all the customers marching down their streets and buying their crap.

In ten years of my routinely asking not a single person has been able to tell me the simple distinction between a lynch mob and a democracy. The anarchists who started Occupy Wall Street understood this and, after they helped people organize, they all split wanting nothing to do with a bunch of crazy Babylonians all screaming and yelling like the Three Stooges that democracy is about fighting for your rights like a lynch mob and attacking anyone who disagrees. The idea of protecting minority rights and everyone covering each other's ass has been flushed down the toilet in favor of fighting over everything which is why Tea Party members have even declared Big Bird a commie plot. All they know anymore is how to fight over everything which is why the anarchists showed them how to organize and actually listen to one another. The rest is up to them, but I wouldn't hold my breath because protecting the little guys and trying to compromise and organize into larger groups has become anathema in our culture which promotes rugged individualism and every man for himself which, of course, empowers the wealthy and powerful to divide and conquer.

Two million women marched in peaceful protest against Trump, but that's less than 1% of the population and even less than 2% of women and, like I said, in ten years I have yet to have a single person tell me the simple distinction between a lynch mob and a democracy. It was women, as well as men, who elected him in the first place. Free speech is possible, but is rather pointless when everyone is screaming and nobody is listening and the mass media is controlled by wealthy with Fox News declaring themselves "entertainment" so nobody can sue them for spouting bullshit. The rest of the media outlets are headed in the same direction as it becomes impossible to distinguish between reality TV and politics.

 

Wu, this lynch Mob vs Democracy thing you keep espousing, is it because you don't know? Or because you don't think anyone else does?

For me the distinction lies within the law. If the democracy has voted to make lynching illegal, then a lynch mob would only be similar to a democracy in that its members voted to dispatch some local offenders. The umbrella democracy, or state, would likely be forced to take the lynch mob to task for committing a murder. That is assuming of course that the democracy has already agreed that murder is to be scheduled as illegal.

The reason I have no faith in the people calling themselves "Anarchists" these days is that they are only attacking 1 side. In reality a true anarchist would not side with either political party. And I admit I'm totally confused by the people calling themselves "Anti-Fascists" when they employ pure fascism to deliver their points. I often wonder if they are some kind of paid opposition that elites have sanctioned for the very purpose of distracting the rest of us from the way elitists are reducing the population to serfs and slaves.

Here's a slightly better reporting of the events in Berkeley. https://www.rt.com/usa/384895-clashes-erupt-rallies-trump/

 

The problem is there is no more civility in politics. There can be no agreement the other side is not only wrong but not even worthy of being called a part of MY country. Each side thinks it's theirs. It's more important to belittle your opposition then to work with them and that is how "free speech" works now. The Tea Party legitimized a way of thinking that has spread to the left now as well. Long term I don't think either party will survive as it is now. This is the perfect climate for someone like Trump who has simple answers and reasons for everything. In a time of chaos people don't like to examine gray areas it's easy for it to be black and white,.

 

The distinction is one that used to be widely known and some movie directors have even taken pains to point it out in their movies, comedians have taken pains to refer to it in the comedy acts, etc. A lynch mob can vote on who they want to hang because voting does not make you a democracy and, in fact, a lynch mob can hang any of their own members if they want or even hang their own majority and still be recognized as nothing more than a lynch mob. The simple fact is a democracy requires the cooperation of minorities, not just racial or religious minorities, but any kind of minority. Of course, they don't require their cooperation all the time but, without a significant amount of cooperation from minorities what you have is civil war, revolution, genocide, and things of that nature, rather than, a functional democracy.

I'm an anarchist and I reject both Obama and Trump, the Tea Party, republicans, and democrats because that's the definition of anarchist which means "no rulers" and none of them are supporting democracy. Obama signed the damned Patriot Act and refused to put the corrupt bankers in jail that collapsed the entire world economy committing massive fraud. When the billionaire mayor of NYC arrested 26 reporters in one day he merely got a slap on the wrist. Obama rounded up the worst criminals that were illegal immigrants, yet, allowed the wealthy still hiring them to continue conducting business as usual. Both parties contributed to the collapse of the economy and both parties refused to promote any candidates demanding justice and the restoration of our constitutional rights. Trump is the result of nobody believing a word anyone says anymore and nobody having a clue what democracy means.

Laws are just words on paper written by lawyers. When the Native Americans bitterly complained repeatedly that every treaty they ever signed with the US government had been violated they were laughed out of the Supreme Court. A lynch mob can promise not to kill you, while they tie the rope around your neck.

 

Yes, this is precisely why Trump slid into the top seat so readily. He's not really a republican at all, but he's not a democrat either. His strategy was simple, defeat the GOP from within first since they were already in a chaotic state. Then beat the democrats in a real stand-up sort of fight, head on. Which was basically handed to him when the democrats propped up "The Clinton Machine" which hasn't had an original idea for campaigning since the 90s. The Clintons were so sure Trump couldn't win they wasted their efforts toppling Bernie, who lost the race the moment he let two little girls take his mic away. Perception still goes a long way in US politics. Who could help but see Hillary as stronger than Bernie after that. I admit I lost all faith in him.

But I already experienced the Clintons and didn't want to see that show again. So once again it became a Hold Your Nose vote which has become typical of US politics in the last 3 decades.

 

I'd say more like 4 decades, which is when all the wealth started accumulating at the top, but its certainly debatable. Holding your nose and voting anyway is part of what got us into this mess in the first place. Its reactionary politics with a recent study concluding that people can easily be encouraged to question the validity of any well known fact, such as Walt Disney was the creator of Mickey Mouse, but when it came to politics they dug in like tic and refused to budge the more conservative they were. The lights are on, but nobody is home because they have closed their minds, hearts, ears, and eyes to the reality of the situation. Like a bird pecking away at its own reflection republicans continue to attack even their own government despite forty years of failure with the situation only getting worse. The idea that they are doing this to themselves is simply unthinkable as is the idea that they actually have more attractive alternatives available.

Already voter turnout is the lowest in the developed world and if a significant percentage of the population were to simply refuse to vote it would embarrass the hell out of both parties. Likewise, if republicans and democrats wanted something radically different all they would have to do is start protesting together as they did in Occupy Wall Street. Instead, they just keep right on voting and complaining despite the fact it gets them nowhere.

Personally, I'm waiting for someone to pull another Mother Jones and get the children out marching down the streets by the millions and demanding the adults get their act together.

 

What you're seeing here is the byproduct of Safe Space culture. WHen these crazy authoritarian leftists in academia indoctrinate these pathetic millennials to believe that different ideas put their safety at risk, they will justify violence against those with the wrong opinion.

 

Free speech is never possible when the majority of people support a politically correct agenda. That goes for freedom too.

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cSMz0pcrM18

Here's a clear synopsis of how it all went down.

The police were ordered to stand down

 

Whenever I see protests, I see a group of people who aren't working.

When people aren't working they're not earning money.

And when they're not earning money, they protest about it.

 

Not defending antifa or anything, I don't like those guys

So just commenting on this, not the rest of the thread - but i've always thought this was silly. Like, you dont have a couple of days off a week plus vacation days to use throughout the year? No one says anything about people who use their time off to vacation or do yard work or see a movie, but god forbid someone join a protest on their day off lol

 

And then, ya know, not everyone works Monday - Friday 8-5. A lot of people work nights or weekends and have free time during the week.

Plus a lot of protests against the Trump administration has been on a Saturday - the woman's march, tax day of course fell on Saturday this year, the science march is planned for a Saturday

 

Are protests somewhere on an online calander where I can look and say oh hey there's a protest coming up in August, I'll take a day off work for that one?

People work Saturdays too. I'm not really seeing the argument or the points, just sounds like a quick validation or justification to disagree with me, which was really just a loosely based conceptual opinion of my own that held no merit, just makes me think is all.

 

I hadn't heard about this! One of the many times I hate living out in the sticks, I'd love to join that one.

https://www.marchforscience.com/

 

Wasn't it you and @okiefreak who said Antifa were paid thugs who were bankrolled by Breitbart to make leftists look bad? Or something like that?

 

Well yeah, protests generally are planned in advance

And I dont need a validation or justification to disagree with you lol, I was disagreeing with an idea you expressed. It has nothing to do with you personally. but this is an open forum and so if you express an idea people do tend to also express their opinions of your ideas too.

Anyways I see the same idea parrotted all over the internet that leftists who protest only do so because they dont have jobs, you certainly arent the first person to say it. I just find it silly.

 

No I said I dont know anything about antifa and they could be anyone

But like I said I was responding specifically to the idea that peaceful protesters don't work. I'm not talking about antifa.

 

^Republicans are basically all mean spirited like that from what I have ever experienced....

 

I didn't say they didn't have jobs, I just think that, with all you read about how protests don't actually work, people would benefit more from going to work and contributing a day's work to society than lining up the street with a a stick and a sign trying to gain the attention of folks that aren't going to look anyway.

 

Those in power would like for everyone to turn a blind eye.

 

Eh

When I go to work I contribute to ripping the elderly off by overcharging them for healthcare for the profit of a billion dollar company (that in turn underpays their employees and provides really expensive, shitty health benefits)

If I could attend a massive protest in favor of a single payer healthcare system I would feel more valuable to society than I do by going to work. Most people's jobs just render them a cog in the wheel, whereas protesting actually gives them a voice.