Protest of the Iraqi War

Yes, before and after

 

I am sure these kids just love American soldiers. War makes it possible for them to run blocks for a bottle of water, while stupid GIs have the gall to laugh at them. That's something to be proud of isn't it Americans. Afterall we're making it possible for them to share in our form of democracy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9A_vxIOB-I

And Hadji Girl just demonstrates what respect our GIs show for the people of the countries they are occupying.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2058313056450546087

Our American GIs are not all heros or saints, they are young people stuck in a situation many of them were ill prepared for, and they are behaving in many instances in less than honorable ways. Don't fall into a trap where you sanctify actions simply because they are performed by our military.

 

True, but some of the American GI's ARE heros. You say the kids in Iraq have to run blocks for water, my cousin has pictures of his unit bringing food and water to dozens of families. You shouldn't watch a few videos on the internet and believe that what you're seeing is the only side of the story. The negative happenings allways make the news, allways has (expecially in war). Too many people are relying on youtube and other INTERNET sites for their information. Think about it.......which video is going to have the most hits? American troops beating up an inocent Iraqi, or American Troops feeding a neighborhood.

 

That's true LLTh. Let's share some of the positive videos out there. Post some links, I'll watch...promise!

I'd love to see some. But don't igonore the fact that most of these young people are stuck over there with little training or support. I am not faulting them, but neither am I painting them as saints and heros.

 

The reason those kids have trouble getting water in the first place is because we destroyed the infrastructure of the country when we invaded the place (and afterwards). Before the invasion, hundreds of thousands of children died from malnutrition and lack of medicines due to the sanctions that we pushed for for years. I hardly think it's a success story that a few soldiers are binging them some water now. If we'd have left that country alone they wouldn't have to worry about that kind of thing to begin with.

 

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Yea but if we would have left that country alone their citizens would be murdered everytime they wanted change. If one man was murdered, and dozens objected....doezens would be murdered. I'm not in any way saying war is a good thing, or that we should be there in the first place. I am saying that the solders over there deserve some respect. And the people that were dying in Iraq before the invasion were due to a Mr. Sadaam Husain, not by the hands of America.

And I regret to say that I don't have any links to positive clips, my connection is too slow to watch any. I am only talking on the behalf of evidence that my family has brought back, and the stories that they share.

 

There have been a whole hell of a lot more people killed due to the chaos and disorder caused by the American invasion, and the direct miltary action, than ever died under Saddam's regime.

In fact, religious extremism such as is rampant today, and that's causing so much violence, wasn't tolerated under Saddam's regime. His government was a secular government that granted freedom of religion, and protection to Christians and their churches. Now, the Muslim extremists basically run the country, and the government is powerless to do anything about it.

 

These men shown in this video are a disgrace to their country and their uniform. They should be charged with conduct unbecomming an officer and subject to court marital. Their CO should also be reprimanded if he was aware of this conduct and it went unpunished. There is absolutely no excuse for this behavior.

 

Are you from Iraq? If so, what do you think about the whole situation? Experiences with the solders and what not.......

 

At the risk of being unpopular, I'm going to toss the following idea out for discussion:
Yankee, go home. Defend the United States and its territories, and nothing else. Let the rest of the world fend for itself.

Let's go one step further. As you are no doubt aware, in June 1992 Mikhail Gorbachev, President of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR, put forward a motion dissolving the USSR into its fifteen constituent republics. The motion was carried.
It is now time for the United States government to abolish itself, leaving fifty states and certain territories to look out after themselves.

After all, through military conscription, the U.S. government came pretty close to abolishing me, back in 1971.

 

Have been there several times, not a citizen. I think the situation over there is chaos. I have spent a significant amount of time with active duty and retired military. The reason I feel so strongly about the actions of uniform military is that they are representing their country (in this case the United States), and the actions of a few can swing the opinion of many. There are approximately 150,000 active military personel currently employed in Iraq. There is no doubt that a percentage of this number find the acts committed in the video shown to be humorous. Being a soldier is about duty and honor. Representing your country, your army, your unit, and yourself. The gross actions of a relatively small percentage of soldiers has done irreparable damage to the reputation of the United States, the Coalition Forces, and the effort of the Iraq War.

Many of the soldiers in theater, especially active Reserve, are young and afraid. Sentiment toward this war is fading. The objective is no longer clear. When the will of the soldier diminishes, you lose the initiative. What the young men and women are going through is difficult, but they have faired well. They are facing a difficult enemy. Fighting a war in a civilian population against an enemy who uses guerilla tactics, ambushes, suicide bombing, and unconventional warfare is not an easy task. There is no clear line. Everything in war tactics we have learned for hundreds of years is essentially useless.

One aspect I want to comment on is the use of private contractors. Before I rant I must say, some use of private contracting is necessary. The privatisation of Iraq is completely obscene. During the 90's the human intelligence capabilties of the US was systematically dismantled. Politicians saw it more benefitial to invest billions of dollars in surveilance technology and drastically cut back funding on human intelligence gathering and foreign operations. Information gained from ground operations is detrimental to a successful intelligence program and impossible to achieve using satellite technology. We don't need to get into why this was done, deals given to defense contractors is no secret.

Example, pre-9/11, Langley did not find it viable to hire linguists that did not hold a B.S. degree. Dozens of qualified men were turned away. This is significant not only in the fact that arab speaking linguists were greatly needed, but later in the WOT these services were given to contractors. Billions of dollars are being given to companies such as Titan, who provide overpaid, underqualified services.

Services provided by contractors have severely damaged the image of the US military. Some contractors in Iraq operate with little oversight and almost zero accountability. Many are familiar with the actions conducted by CACI interrogators in the Abu Ghraib prison. Most do not differentiate whether these heinous acts were committed by uniform military or contractors, and essentially it does not matter. There is no reason that soldiers working under contract should not have to follow rules of war (ROE, Geneva Convention, etc..) It should be noted also that contractors are not given rights outlined in the Geneva Convention since they are not legally a member of a uniformed army (basically same category that terrorists and enemy combatants fall under). The damage caused by these contractors is not just skin deep. I have seen imbed contractors cause problems in the chain of command, giving conflicting orders to uniform military. Young soldiers are trained to follow orders and can be confused when they receive orders from PCs that do not align with orders given by their CO. This was also seen in the Abu Ghraib example.

I could go on about these issues, but I want to make one thing clear. The use of contractors can be very valuable. There is an opportunity for these companies to provide field training to soldiers on a very specialized level. Many contractors are retired/former soldiers, spec ops, and intel agents. They often hold a level of expertise that is not widely available in the US military. For this reason, I see their use very valuble. However, I do not think a contracted soldier should be allowed on the battlefield participating in active combat. I believe this not only for the reason of the accountability mentioned above, but also these companies are slowly draining much needed skill and experience from the US military. When a soldier/agent can make 5-10 times the pay performing the same task, well, why wouldn't they. There is no reason why the US military and intelligence agencies cannot perform these duties and employ the means to accomplish them. There absolutely needs to be oversight on the contracting in Iraq. The American public needs to be informed on this contracting and demand accountibility from THEIR government.

 

That would ideal in my mind, but unnatainable. There are too many threats globally to not worry about what is going on overseas, expecially now.
I wish that each state could look after ourselves, and live kind of like the rainbow, every state helping eachother in times of need. But doing so would only differenciate Americans and cause violence state to state.

 

There are, of course, problems with abolishing the United States. For example, I wouldn't want to see Illinois, Mississippi or Alabama with nuclear weapons.

If bloodthirsty Americans need to find someone to kill, let them keep their violence at home, rather than exporting it to Panama, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos... have I forgotten anyone?

Incidentally I was born in Los Angeles, a fact of which I am not proud. In 1971 my government went insane and tried to enslave me and many others in military so-called service. After a short period in jail (Great Falls MT, Billings MT, Los Angeles CA), I was acquitted on technicalities of violating the War and National Defense Act (Title 50 United States Code Appendix 462). My crime was being alive, male and between 18 and 26. I emigrated to Canada and have never regretted my action for a moment.

It is unfortunate that Iraqis and Afghans are now forced to defend themselves with arms against American imperialism. I lose more sleep over dead Iraqis than dead Americans.

 

... and we wonder why we are at war ...
i just wonder if a protest of toys 'r us and all their violent war toys and video games would make a difference on our war and violent mentality ... anyone have any thoughts on that?

 

Naaaa, I don't think that would have an effect.

Violence isn't always evil. What's evil is the infatuation with violence. - Jim Morrison

I think a certain amount of violence is healthy. Innocent (toy) violence, play fighting, cowboys and indians....stuff like that, not bloody ruthless violence. Take that in context though, because in todays world there is a lot of stupid people that take things way too seriously.

 

I think it has a big effect on the ways kids grow up and look at violence. A lot of the kids I knew graduated right from toy guns to real ones. I definitely don't want any of my kids to grow up playing with them.

 

i guess i'm like this ... ban it until we actually become conscious of our actions and can see the difference between violence with consent (e.g., the games of cowboys and indians) and violence without consent (e.g., invasions of sovereign nations without their consent or request) ... interesting notion ... i dunno the answer ... i can see violence without being violent, i think. but more and more, i cannot even see it or watch it without feeling like i'm hurting a piece of my heart and intelligence.

 

This post is one of the most well spoken important responses in this thread, and one I hope all you read and understand.

 

I did on natinaol walk out day last year. I handed out flyers at school got on the news tpaper and when I left school went to the army recrutment center and herased military ass holes for an hr. Best time I ever had giving shit to the man. DOWN WITH THE ESTABLISHMENT