Do you mean prostitution puts the pussy on a pedestal? Or that Ari is putting the pussy on a pedestal?
the 40 year old virgin i assumed it would be stupid as hell, like american pie but it turned out to be really funny:cheers2:
That's the thing. I fail to see why we should decide to promote something that creates troubles because it won't ever go away. It's like saying we should all kill ourselves because dying is never going to go away. The logic in that does not hold any common sense. And, to me, it's not a good enough logic to base an entire mode of economic accumulation and wealth upon, namely in favour of regulating prostitution. If the government is going to legalize prostitution or de-criminalize it, then in my view, condoms, birth control pills/devices of any sort, abortions, STD tests, blood tests, PAP smears, urinary tract swabs, HPV injections, hepatitis injections, security, insurance, pensions, fair wages, uniform costs, security measures, criminal background checks on clients, safe houses, and an entire slew of other things should all be free or accounted for by this regulating body. Are you yourself, as a taxpayer, readily willing to shift more of your tax dollars towards ensuring that the sex trade and women whom you say "choose" this existing career choice (as dangerous as it is) are looked after and their career as sex slaves or whatever are forever the responsibility of the taxpayers? Or even worse, are subject to private sector hodge-podge benefits and regulatory requirements? What would prevent your daughters and sons from going into the sex trade at that point? Nothing really. It's a job like no other job, right? Jeez. We sure have a backwards way of what constitutes as "work" in modern today, don't we? In my view, the women you met with or your friend met with or what have you are in a state of false consciousness, much like the group of REAL Women who advocate that women should take a traditional role within the economic system and are supposed to be in a total and complete domesticated role. Prostitutes are under the assumption that if the government watched over them instead of their pimps, they wouldn't get beat up as much or underpaid and they'd be happier. Well, it's the same state of consciousness that the REAL Women find themselves in, a false one, in that they think the best way to be happy is for all women to stay at home and raise babies. To be in a state of false consciousness it means that the people advocating a certain belief to live or behave a certain way, as a result of the system created by those beliefs are the very same people who are oppressed or do not benefit equally as everyone else participating in the system. Women who believe that men are the bread-winners and should always be such, are not benefiting equally from participating in this notion. They have no class consciousness and cannot see the kind of class oppression or segregation they are promoting by contributing to this notion. In my view, the person who turns tricks and makes more money than a pensioner working full-time at McDonald's is exploiting the economic and legislative system of governance that abides by the rule of law. It's pretty hypocritical to say in one breath "I'm beyond the rule of laws, and yet the government has a responsibility to keep me safe from bad things!" Not that I blame women for wanting to be protected, I mean, they obviously feel somewhat helpless even though you say they chose the job and the working conditions in which they decide to work in. If they don't feel exploited, like you say, then why would they even need the government, hm? Seems rather pointless to get the government involved if women aren't being exploited in their sex trade jobs. Again, this exemplifies a state of false consciousness in a system of commodified fetishisms. It does matter if I think prostitution should be socially acceptable or not - whether it exists for all eternity or not - because I don't wish to observe the sex trade as another 'natural effect' of this malaise under a capitalist/commercialized system where persons are always seeking out the gratification found more easily in frivolous things - the same way people look for apparel, goods and stuff to fill up their homes with. It's like the philosophy of futility whereby there is an underlying priori used to increase the consumption of fashionable goods and services, resulting in a vicious circle of dissatisfaction and the desire for new consumer goods. Not satisfied with this whore? Well, here's another. Don't like those shoes you bought? Well, buy more. Buy anything. Buy a penis and rent it out. Buy the moon and charge interest. Buy more useless and futile crap that gives anybody a job and money in their pocket. The world has gone mad. It does matter if I find prostitution to be socially acceptable or not. Because I think people matter, and money does not. EDIT: Sometimes I'm very long-winded, eh?
I got to give it to you: I haven't seen the criminalization of prostitution being defended from a Marxist perspective very often. I feel nostalgic about Marxism- though I can only partially empathize with the social engineering aspect of it. That's why I seek some kind of balance. Instead of reading Marx for his proscriptions, I read him for his diagnosis of capitalist relations. I don't think you can shove medicine down people's throats and the law should concern itself only with harm done to third parties. Prostitution itself does nothing to anyone other than the parties involved- assuming we're talking about a consentual transaction by two adults. In fact, prostitution is such a private enterprise, it is impossible to prove it by any means other than entrapment.
Uh- most johns are married men, I'm pretty sure. Former New York Gov. Spitzer was hardly lonely. People try to come up with profiles for prostitutes and johns. Like, johns are desperate, creepy, old men. Prostitutes have STDs and poor hygiene. But those are only rationalizations that help people cope with the complexity of gender relations and human sexuality.
Yeah, but in a capitalist system, there is an externalized cost between the transaction of two people or two corporate entities. Third parties are always effected by the transaction of 2, because of the simple fact that the transaction externalized everything but the 2. The goal of the corporation under a system of capital is to accumulate the most wealth possible while externalizing as much cost as they can possibly get away with. It's like how corporations get so big, that following laws are treated like a business deal. They will willingly break laws, take risks of getting caught, and then pay fines getting caught because they've managed to externalize so much cost in their production lines that it's profitable to break the laws. Obeying laws are "just a business" decision. And I don't advocate that we stuff people's throats with oatmeal and brussels sprouts, but by God, the capitalist system is so pervasive in our basic human nature and lives today, that I feel it is important to at least examine the outcomes if we continue on this way. And thank you, it's not often that I get complimented for applying theory to feminine issues. Anyway, the way that legalizing prostitution would play into the capitalist system, is that sex would be a target goal for corporations. I mean - just as an aside - if it were legal, then women would be selling their sex to get promotions in the workforce, appointments to the Supreme Court, etc. Kind of a conflict of interest. Anyway, back to capitalism in the corporate sphere of sex trading. The corporations would then begin to generate all kinds of sex for people to consume and continue to consume. People already ask themselves "How many wants can I satisfy?" and this what the corporations thrive on and think about. They want to mold people from infancy into a desired pattern - a pattern of consumption. And we all know why marketing departments hire numerous psychologists on staff. Why? Because perception management is critical in running a business based on selling goods and services. They use a methodology to identify the most creative ways of appealing to people to get them to consume more goods. Well, the same thing will/is happening to sex. There are externalized costs to selling sex legally or unregulated - even just between two consenting adults - as I've mentioned a few in the this thread but I'll highlight again what they are: 1) people will be able to bribe one another legally with sex in exchange for all kinds of valued commodities, a house let's say, or a position of power. 2) children are affected. Daughters, sons, unborn fetuses, who are persons that are unwilling participants in a sexual transaction between two seemingly consenting adults. 3) sexual assault crimes potentially would increase as is the case in Amsterdam. 4) The people profiting from sex workers and owning the production and selling of sex goods and services has limited liability. They are concerned only for their stockholders, and not their stakeholders. 5) the government has a vested interest in creating productive and safe career opportunities equally for both sexes, all races, all beings. There is a very HUGE cost in ensuring that fair wages, proper protection, benefits, yadda yadda like I mentioned in my last post, is going to be required to bring sex as a job up to par with the rest of the real jobs that exist out there.
I meant for when I go back to school in the Spring. Hopefully. I work at the French school here in Murcia.
Marx never intended to replace one form of oppression with another. Dark Side , means violent , exploitative maniacs terrifying male or female sex workers +punters.Or people using sex to achieve corruption etc. Bold text- ok u arent particularly interested in sex.Thats up to you. But should all things be banned , that u dont really value? I dont like ballet- shall I lock em all up?( poofs ) We can never fight the excesses of corporate totalitarian Capitalism if the alternative is another "Bully State". If some fat physically repulsive old aged guy, who creates for society , wants to bone a beautiful horny 21 year old , why shouldnt he? PS sex is actually important for our health and wellbeing. Vital infact , in some major religions.eg Hinduism and Taoist had "sacred prostitutes" ie priests who provided sexual services... for money. Here's an interesting documentary clip... http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TDpgNkzReuU
I'm sorry, sweetie. But you're falling victim to all sorts of sophistry and evading the question. You still haven't explained why prostitution is DIFFERENT. We already live in a commodity society, k? Why is it that in such a society, prostitution should be illegal and frying hamburgers (which also has externalized costs AND health consequences) should not? If you don't answer this question, then you're making an argument against capitalism- not against the decriminalization of prostitution. Additionally, the externalized costs argument is very weak for two reasons: 1) because many, if not all of the externalized costs that you mentioned already occur and are arguably augmented by criminalization--- women routinely have sex to get ahead, etc. It's already a reality. 2) because EVERYTHING has externalized costs. Obesity has externalized costs. Should we make eating fried foods illegal then? Once the law goes beyond DIRECT harm to third parties, you enter a gray area in which there is no easy established boundaries as to how the state dictates the lives of individuals. Life in society is no theory or ideal. It is compromise. -------------------------------- Finally, you're picking up on some weak ol' isolated factoid about Amsterdam as evidence that the legalization of prostitution leads to violence against women to fit your argument. I dare you, I double-dare you to provide me with statistics that say prostitutes in Amsterdam face more violence than in New York City. Further, there are already laws in place against violence, rape, slavery, and child abuse. That is not prostitution- prostitution is a transaction between two consenting adults. Rape occurs routinely in the New York City subway system- should we perhaps make it illegal for women to ride the subway at night?
Sometimes when I am around big cities usually in a shady part of town some nasty crack head chic will come proposition me. All I can think is there is now way I would put my dick anywhere around that nasty skank and much less pay for it. Makes my skin crawl. The concept is good get some sex with out head games for about the same price as dinner out drinks you get right to the sex. But prostitutes are just nasty.
Oh really?--- this is the prostitute that New York Gov. Elliot Spitzer had been seeing for over a year before the scandal:
