Not true. Matt 5:42 "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. 41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away. NKJV Matt 5:43-6:1 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect. NKJV Matt 5:33-37 "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old,'You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.' 34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne; 35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. 37 But let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No.' For whatever is more than these is from the evil one. NKJV Matt 5:31-32 "Furthermore it has been said,'Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.' 32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery. NKJV Matt 5:27-29 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not commit adultery.' 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. NKJV Matt 5:21-26 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.' 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother,'Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says,'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Agree with your adversary quickly, while you are on the way with him, lest your adversary deliver you to the judge, the judge hand you over to the officer, and you be thrown into prison. 26 Assuredly, I say to you, you will by no means get out of there till you have paid the last penny. NKJV So much to that. Go ahead. Mark 7:9-13 9 He said to them, "All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother'; and, 'He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.' 11 But you say, 'If a man says to his father or mother,"Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban" — ' (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13 making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do." NKJV I don't see him ordering to criticise kids. You obviously didn't get the point in Matthew 19:29. Luke 12:47, he didn't say it was okay. He was giving an example of what actually HAPPENS in the world, as well as teaching a lesson by it. I don't know where you got the 'okay' part from. Reread it. Luke 12:42-48 42 And the Lord said, "Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his master will make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of food in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. 44 Truly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all that he has. 45 But if that servant says in his heart, 'My master is delaying his coming,' and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and be drunk, 46 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant who knew his master's will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more. NKJV
No, not "so much to that." This was in NO WAY "changing the law". Fulfilling the law was a new covenant in which "grace" supposedly covered where the law had failed to. Have you ever read the the Hebrew version of the Torah? My guess is no. Also, Jesus is a strong advocate of the Old Testament cruelties. Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. Matthew 5:17. Your quotes are all NIV and that is fine, but just for my information because we don't have the time here to go too indepth... Do you own a Hebrew/Greek parallel bible by chance? The only way to rip your arguments to shreds BEFORE YOUR VERY EYES is to use the original texts. Otherwise, it's just my word against yours and somehow I believe you'd take your own word. I know Christian sophistry like the back of my hand because I was so good at twisting logic back in the day to fit my Jesus trip. Let me ask you a few questions: When did you decide to become a Christian? What made you decided this? How did it happen? Thanks.
I don't own a direct Hebrew/Greek Bible, only a program which will give you the Hebrew writings in Romanji when you ask for the Hebrew/Greek Verse. None in the form of a Hebrew font. However, I do believe there are some online ones. It's true that Y'shua was for the Tanakh ( Jesus was a Jew ), but he changed their laws/rules/ whatever, like I posted before. He also went against killing of people for commiting sins like adultery. Why the Torah? answers to your questions: 1)A few months ago. 2) Supernatural things, and I was pretty open. 3) I repented. And asked Y'shua to come into my heart.
Your ballpark. Pardon me, New KJV...not NIV. No one said anything about ordering to criticize kids. I said he criticized the parents for not obeying the LAW which commanded the kids to be killed for this "sin". How can you not see that? You mean the PRINCE OF PEACE, SON OF GOD, ALL-GOODY GOODY believes that "slaves" are deserving of stripes?? They deserve to be beaten? I don't see Mr. Jesus Man CONDEMNING SLAVERY! Why not? Aren't we all equal in the eyes of loving Jesus??
I see. Yes, there are some online programs. Again, you need to research your "changing the law" statement a little further. Why the Torah?? C'mon...do you need to ask why you shouldn't study the Hebrew text of the Law? TO BETTER UNDERSTAND THE WHOLE OF THE LAW. Maybe you need to study up on your Jewish history a little more. Supernatural things? Such as? If you don't mind my asking...that is...
I didn't know if you were asking for Prophecies or laws, that's why I asked "Why the Torah?" Now I see that you were talking about the law. What I meant with 'supernatural things' were things like healing of the sick, miracles, prophecy, and stuff like that.
Really? Healing of the sick, miracles, prophecy, etc. Tell me did you ever see a paraplegic jump up and run? Or was it something "internal" that you couldn't actually see, but hear "reports" later... Or a dead man rise out of a casket? This would be extremely interesting. Or a someone walk on water (or better yet into thin air)? Ahh..but wait! David Blaine does that...so scratch that. Did the "prophecies" sound very specific? Like extremely or kinda vague? More like "a man with brown trousers with a headache" or "Bill Smith at 224 N. 3rd Ave. in Los Angeles with an SUV parked backwards in his garage who works at Mechanic Mart as a stockboy has a severe eyeache in the left eye at exactly 3:15 p.m. Saturday, June 2nd." I am just asking for my own personal curiousity.
Ah, I see. The slave thing was an example, that's how the times back then were. Jesus didn't say he supported that. The harsh treatment goes against Moses' law.
I like you ryu...you got guts. I admire that. Yes, slaves were the way it was. But, if Jesus was "yesterday, today and forever" and knew the future, wouldn't it have made more sense for his philosophy of love to condemn slavery? He sure didn't mind attacking the other "traditions" that were the "way it was back then". So, why not slavery? Such a wretched inhumane thing, don't you think?
No dead man rise But a person with a broken leg walk. I know of people who've had some physical disabilities, and got healed. Many of the things my friend told me about intrigued me as well (she's been Christian for 9 years, so she's seen some stuff.) I got some rather interesting (not so dynamic, though) stuff happen to me. The Prophecies in the Bible fascinated me.
Many people back then were in for debt. This hasn't changed much today, it's just not that personal anymore. They were usually responsible for this themselves. Thanks. ^^ I'll check back tomorrow.
I see. Were any of these miracles scientifically tested, per chance? LOL...just kidding of course. I know that preachers wouldn't allow that sort of thing. Otherwise they might just become MILLIONAIRES. Yes, the Randi Educational Foundation is offering $1 million to anyone who can produce miraculous events...only the catch is that they are under conditions to where everything involved can be examined and tested. The trouble is that James Randi, the founder, is an illusionist (one of the world's best) and has exposed huckster after huckster, fraud after fraud with startling results. Yet, NO ONE has won the million...no one. That kind of reminds me of how people used to say thunder was the voice of God, but science proved them silly. Or how volcanoes were angry gods, but then here comes science. Or how the earth was flat, the sun revolved, the earth was the center of the Universe...etc..etc...ad infinitum... However, science has a history of crushing myth and superstition and explaining things naturally. No event in history has EVER been PROVEN "supernatural", but ALL of the now explained, previous mysteries have been explained as natural. So far it is NATURAL EXPLANATION (although it may take time) : Countless times.. and SUPERNATURAL EXPLANATION - Zero. Because all Supernaturalism would need is just ONE. On the other hand, your friend has given you stories of hearsay...that's not always very good evidence. Suppose you and I were the best of friends and I told you something you knew to be impossible to the laws of nature, would you readily believe me? Or ask for more evidence?
I am afraid there is a major difference, however, in slavery and financial debt of the new age. I hope you see the difference. Surely you do. But, that's beside the point. Jesus (knower of all) should have did the right thing and condemned this evil practice. But, since he was merely a man (on which an entire mythological legend was built upon) he didn't. So, it took some thousands and hundreds of years later before man himself spoke out against this.
Never seen that happen (personally). God causes the sickness on purpose, and God stops it when God want's too. If you (Libertine) get sick after reading this, it's not me, it's God. Daily. Things happen in such a coordinated manner that I know longer think it is blind coincidence- and I know it is not just a bunch of people plotting together- it would take way to much time and effort to put together all of the coincidences that happen in my life for an average human to work them all out. Not to mention the amount of money and resources it would cost is staggering (considering that I fly a lot, and have a pretty random schedule (from a human perspective)). I mean, you would have to know everything I was thinking, when I would think the next thought that you have to respond to, where I am going in order to have the people set up to be having a conversation about exactly what I was thinking about when I walk into the restaraunt, know which page of the magazine I am going to flip open when I am thinking about a specific topic that happens to be in a little article that I glance at without the intention of finding my thoughts written on the very page I just opened up. Just yesterday I was thinking something and my friend said my thought out loud right after I thought it- and the thought was completely disconnected with the conversation, unrelated in all ways. I just said "I was just thinking that." Happens so often that its a completely normal part of my life now. Makes me wonder what kind of amazing things are going to come next? Sometimes an idea jumps out at me (like I am reading an old book and a certain idea calls out to me for some reason). Next thing I know, this idea which has not been mentioned for a long time (around me) seems to be the topic of conversations around me. Usually I feel the idea strongly but have no clue that it is gonna turn up in many forms around me. Hopefully I will begin to get a feel for these sensations of thoughts. Sometimes I just grab a random book off the shelf in the library and open it to a random page and it is about something I was thinking about recently, then I grab another random book off of a totally different section and it mentions the same topic as the first book when I open it to a random page. Stuff like that. Is that prophecy? No. I don't accurately predict things unless I am harassing Eagles fans (jokin... I suck at predicting game outcomes- my friend Hess was great at gambling in the old days (from what I remember-10 years ago)).
Hmmm...well, I don't know about "miracles" and such, but it sounds like either you count the hits and ignore the misses...OR you just have a VERY interesting life.
I dunno. Good things started happening when I realized God was coordinating everything (I mean EVERYTHING). Like a lady gets a flat tire in front of my house. I go to help her, just to be nice. She gives me a $20. Me and my gfriend drive out of pittsburgh and are 1/2 way to State College, almost out of gas. We pull into a gas station and my gfriend realizes she left all of her money and her bank card at home. I had the 20 in my pocket. We just ran out of money again, and I got 50$ from my uncle (he went to brazil so sent me a card early). My parents decided to give me $200, when a couple of years ago they were never going to give me money again because they thought it encouraged me to be lazy. Before, when I worked at jobs, I never had enough. Now, I go do some work for someone that takes me about 1.5 hours and they give me $60 (which is a lot for someone who hasn't had a job in 1.5 years), or I spend a couple minutes mowing a tiny yard as a favor to someone and they give me a $20. The interesting thing is that the money comes to me when I most need it- I just don't worry about things and let God take care of things. On may 20th, there was this crazy detour because they were doing major construction. Our car was not inspected. We get pulled over because the detour lead us right past some cops that see our sticker. They give my gfriend a ticket for 105$. We totally forget to pay it... About a week later a cop stops me as I am picking my gfriend up at the airport (cuz of the bad inspection sticker) I tell the cop we already got hit once. He says "I'm not gonna slam you twice. You get a freebie." The funny thing was, I was thinking about running into a cop and having to talk to them around that time (It wasn't because I put 2&2 together and realized there are often cops roaming the airport). So we go home. Back to the original ticket... So, I call the magistrate for my girlfriend to find out if we can set up a payment plan. They tell me to have her bring proof of inspection/ drivers license to the magistrate and maybe he will set up a payment plan or write it off. She goes to the magistrate and starts talking to this nice old guy in the lobby about her situation and all the stuff that happened recently. Another guy walks up to the old guy and asks him about a ticket---- because he was the magistrate. He dismissed my girlfriends ticket, even though it was completely legitimate. That's 2 times, no penalty. Then there is the time I was drunk at 5:00 am and drove up to a cop in roadblock position and honked at him. Totally shocked him (sorta funny). I say "What are you doing here sir?" He says "What the fuck do you think I'm doin', sitting here for my health- get out of here!" So I ask him which way to go to detour around the roadblock and he sends me on my merry way. There is also the time I was totally drunk driving really fast and crossing the double yellow lines for fun. The next thing I know, 2 cop cars are behind me with sirens and flashers. I'm all like "Shit!!! SHIT!!!". I started pulling over and the cops just speed past me, and I realized God just punked me to fuck with my head (which is pretty funny). Then there is the time that my friend got a ticket for being an asshole in public (downtown). Well, I was completely wasted, in a different part of town (State College, PA during arts festival weekend). I was wandering around with an open container, which is a BIG NO-NO during arts fest. They bring in tons of cops from all over the state to cover arts fest. So I am completely wasted, wandering around with a beer cup in hand, I see 2 cops walking up the alley towards me. I walk up to them and start talking about what a kick ass party night it is. The younger cop looks at my beer and says "Do you know you have an open container?" I'm like "Ohh this, yeah..." Somehow the other cop changed the subject and they ended up saying "Have fun but be careful" and went on their way. I was pretty tired at that point in night so I wandered into a party and these people I just meet offered me a ride home. Then they gave me these huge containers of potato salad and cole slaw (which was awesome, because like I said before, I haven't had a job in a long time after I realized God would take care of me, so any food was awesome). This Saturday, I helped my one friend move. We couldn't stay in the persons driveway because the moving van was gonna show up in a bit and back in (and we couldn't stay on the street- no parking). So we decide to go down to Weis markets and sit in the parking lot for a couple minutes to wait for the moving van to show up at the house. We were driving by an old friend of mines house on the way to Weis but his van was not there. We sat at Weis for a couple of minutes while I smoked a cigarette. I was 2/3s done with my smoke (I smoke slow) and I was about to go but my friend Mark said- why don't you wait until you are done with the smoke. So I did. We pull out of the parking lot behind my old friends work van, which we would have missed if I didn't finish the smoke like Mark suggested. I followed him to his house and hopped out and talked to my bro for a bit (he is doing really well- business is booming and he is happy which makes me happy) before we headed off to the house to load the uhaul truck. Lots of other stuff happens to me all the time... God kicks ass... Fidelity is wonderful. Even when I get pissed off at God, God does sweet things for me to calm me down and show me that everything is all right, later on, I am the one who says sorry, because I know I was acting like a fool. God doesn't even punish or hurt me, but patiently waits for me to become calm so God can make me happy. God is sweet...
Depending on what it is. I already told you that I know of people, including me, who HAD supernatural stuff happen to me. These things I witnessed don't happen through our power, but God's. Can you explain tongues? No, their not drunk when they do it. And a person must be open to receive healing, using the Holy Spirit for money is selfish. There are documents written by doctors concerning healings. People who have been diagnosed have been healed at Churches, this the doctors couldn't explain, since even crippled people were healed. One of my friends has one. If you don't believe me, go look yourself. God performs things like this every day.
Ok, obviously we don't have the time nor patience to go through EACH case of "healings" etc. So, I will do something I rarely do, for the sake of a longer extended argument...let's just say YOU are right. That these people are "healed" and "tongues" are some unexplained phenomena. (I personally disbelieve all this tripe, but for the sake of argument...) Because these things have yet to be explained or perhaps they can be, but you'd rather hold on to "god did it"...whichever it may be. This is a new form of superstition and a newly package "Argument From Ignorance". OH WE CAN'T EXPLAIN IT!! (or at least you and I can't) So it MUST be GOD!!! And it MUST be MY VERSION of GOD!!! Just like the ancients believed that thunder was the "voice of God" or the earth was flat and the center of the universe, or that volcano gods were angry when the mountain smoked and spewed lava. They couldn't explain it, SO IT WAS SUPERNATURAL! Yeah, UNTIL some scientists and astronomers came along and proved the earth was ROUND and revolved around the Sun, and that the moon was not a "lesser light" and that there were no gods in the mountains and that the universe was infinitely extended...etc. The fill in the gap with your version of "god" argument. But, we see that EACH and EVERY phenomena that was previously explained by the "supernatural" because we couldn't explain then, has now been explained by SCIENCE and LOGIC. All previous "unexplained mysteries" that were attributed to "god" or "gods" and the like are now laughed at because science explained it. We say the tribes were "ignorant" because they believed in Volcano Gods and they were, but we still believe in Sky Daddy with all the inconsistencies and irrationalities of that belief. How hypocritical!
OK. there's proof online that tells how to receive the gift of healing, prophecy and stuff, as well as documents by doctors. You can always check things out by surfing when you're bored. Have a nice day!
