Discussion in 'Protest' started by renee, May 13, 2004.

  1. renee

    renee Member

    Yeah, I'm pro-life and most hippies aren't... Well, the story is... My friend Keith (which I think is a member on here) I think doesn't like me that much anymore because I'm pro-life and he's pro-choice and we had a lil fight about it... I thought hippies were supposed to be nature loving people? :confused: I think it's lame.... Just my opinion... Don't hurt me! AHHH!!!!:p
  2. LaughinWillow

    LaughinWillow Member

    I actually part ways with most "hippies" and the "left" on this issue as well. No one has EVER been able to convince me that killing a fetus isn't killing a human being, and I completely reject the willful, unnecessary killing of any living thing. I also think that abortion is just another sick manifestation of the lack of concern for human life that exists in state societies. I finally believe that telling women that sexual "choice" means the "choice" to kill a viable human being, rather than the "choice" to have INTERCOURSE in the first place or not is insulting and suggests that women are unable to control their sexual behavior. I think if people don't want children badly enough that they would rather KILL them than have them, they SHOULD NOT HAVE INTERCOURSE - with or without birth control.

    To make a few points clear:
    Obviously, I am not referring to women who are raped here. Sexual "choice" is taken away during rape, and women should not be held responsible for the violent choices of some men.

    I am not saying, nor am I convinced, that the answer to this problem is making abortion ILLEGAL. I have no desire to see women butchered in "back-alley" abortions. Nor do those who generally oppose abortion rights have women or children's best interests in mind - they tend to be the same conservative people who think that the answer is simply to have women GIVE AWAY their children in adoption, and who oppose giving women social services or child care (which might allow and encourage them to keep babies they couldn't otherwise afford). Further, the government has an absolutely PATHETIC record when it comes to enforcing child support orders - many women NEVER receive ANY child support, and men are often free to simply leave their state of residence, or even stay in the state and be ignored by authorities. Conservatives also tend to oppose birth control and sexual education programs, which would eliminate a large percentage of abortions, especially in teens and young adults.

    The answer to this problem - and the answer to ALL of our social problems in fact - is to completely change our society so that it values LIFE. Murdering unborn children is insane. Our society is insane. We must BECOME sane if we want to stop murdering children. Unfortunately, it does not appear that this will happen anytime in the near future, as our highest "leaders" continue to refer to butchered children as "collateral damage" and drop depleted uranium, pesticides, and daisy cutters all over the third world, maiming and killing thousands of babies every year. So long as people view THAT as acceptable, abortion will continue, legal or not.
  3. renee

    renee Member

    *reads* *nods*
  4. well said LaughinWillow. i'm pro-life, and thats that. i wish that people would come around and value the worth of life, and treasure it. versus killing innocent babies... and people in general for that matter. like you said, it doesnt look like that'll happen any time soon, abortion will keep happening regardless. one can only hope.
  5. renee

    renee Member

    *sadface* ya, I guess so.:(
  6. gonzobug

    gonzobug Visitor


    a friend of mine and I had this discusion a while back, gues I can offer a male view on it; ive always believed as a man I have absolutely no busines tellin a woman what or what not to do with her body, Im not carrying a child so I can never know what they think or feel. I can only offer any help or advice they ask for and hope whatever decision they make is best for them and their own conscience.

    my personal view is how can anyone casually consider aborting a child?! its not the same as deciding what you want for lunch! but the nsome poeple do and i think that in that case what kind of life would a kid have with a parent like that?
    this is one isue where there is no middle ground, as renee said in cases of rape, or in a case of incest, but no one thinks of that when they are ganged up waving their signs an telling others how wrong they are! Many of the ageold arguments dont hold much with me; adoption for one, the idea that if you dont want the child many others would love to have it is good, but has anyone ever pushed for reforms on adoption? my oparents consiered adoption when I was young, since my mother couldnt have any more kids and i was onlt child they wanted to adopt, but were told it would be close to 2 years before they were approved and that it was stil unlikey , because of the family situation, being that my father was a truck driver ad gone a lot, it would be damaging for a child, but yet they had no trouble raising me! And look at how many situations we have of parents giving a child up for adoption then coming back years alter an trying to get custody back! And they sometimes succeed!
    if everyone were really passionate about this it seems they would do more to improve the whole situation, but sadly most just turn it into some petty agenda to tel someone what to do.
    which poses anothr point, what about these women going to fertility clincs and having 5 or 6 kids!?? and many end up with birth defects or crippled, yet no one sees anything wrong with that, which is just as much tampering with nature as an abortion! Ive mentioned that to several people who claimed to be against abortion, and the answer always is "oh but women want a child of their own its nature" wel doenst that take some of their fire out of the adoption theory to prevent abortion????
    id love to hear some of your thoughts on this, as i said my persoanl view is that no one really thinks these amtters through, they just go of on an emotional trip without really considering the hard facts
  7. Moro

    Moro Member

    Well, I think that women should have the right to decide what to do, but, i myself, would NEVER have an abortion.

    ~Moro (formerly NaturesLittleGirl)
  8. gonzobug

    gonzobug Visitor

    I think the biggest problem is when it becomes a politicanl or religious( and to most people it is both) issue. I persoannly feel that anyone morally or religiously opposed to it should spend their time and energy praying for or counseling anyone considering abortion rather than trying to demonize them, as know one else is in that personsshoes nor do they know their motives entirely.
    by the same token al these radical supporters should do more research and find out exctly waht they are supporting, my ex gf was a total spporter of womens right to abortion, no matter what, until she saw a schoolmates textbook which gve great detals into partial birth abortion, wherin the baby is actually forcfully deliverd then the doctor inserts a rod into the base of its skull an neck to sever the spinal cord basically killing it with his own hands
    personally i think there are too many gray areas, whatif conditions that make it hard to be strictly on one side of the fence or the other, but when you join the big debate you unfortunaly get lumped into one group or the other
  9. HappyHaHaGirl

    HappyHaHaGirl *HipForums Princess*

    I'm pro life, but pro choice....I think that you should have the choice, but abortion is not birth control and should only be used as a last resort in extreme circumstances. If it was illegal, you would have little girls being poked to death with coathangers in dark alleys and shit like that. That's the last thing we need.

    When I got pregnant, I was 17...everyone was giving me I should give it up for adoption...or if I had an abortion by whenever no one would have to know....
    I knew that no matter what choice I made, I was going to think about the baby every day for the rest of my life, because it's my baby. So I decided that, instead of wondering where he was or would be, I would rather know and have him with me and love him and take care of him and never worry about making the wrong decision. And I know I made the right decision. He's the most perfect thing in the world, and he probably saved my life. God knows where I would be if I had just fallen back into my old life.

    Do I sound like a preacher? I just got all mommyish there for a second. I don't mean that if you have an abortion that you're a bad person, I just don't think it's always done for the right reasons.

    That's my story!!! :)
  10. Brocktoon

    Brocktoon Banned

    What struck me as interesting was the notion that being a 'Hippy' was also associated with a 'pro-abortion' or 'pro-choice' stance.

    Now im not sure what todays youth think being a Hippy was like, but I can tell you that back in the early 70's I was part of the 'Hippy' lifestyle. Of course, there were all kinds of people with all kinds of beliefs. Granted.
    One of the 'common themes' in the subculture was 'Naturism'. The youth were countering a culture that had become obsessed with denaturing, gentrifying and plastic-coating anything it could.

    This 'Hippy' thinking went throughout all aspects of life and body. You will notice the long haired and bearded Icons some use here - after all 'Nature' didnt make your hair cut itself off.
    Children like myself would go barefoot (after all, in nature animals did)
    Herbs and natural products were prefered over pharmaceuticals (although.. this was overlooked a lot when a serious infection came along lol)

    Same themes would hold true with pregnancy though. Nature was allowing pregnancy to take its course.
    The hippies I knew would say no to artificial unnatural instruments and chemicals being used for abortions.

    Abortion would fit into the 'Unnatural' category.. at least in 'said' Hippy thinking of the day.

    Im sure it happened and Im sure many wanted to have that choice and took it.
    Im mainly talking about the 'mindset' of the day.

    Personaly I think aborting a baby is something all of us should always want to avoid at all costs.
    This may surprise people but Im horrified and against aborting babies despite being a Christian, ex-hippy kid, or a social conservative.
    I simply think Children are awesome, our future and a blessing.
    For that reason alone I cant imagine why anyone would want to terminate their development.
    As if its a 'bad thing' to have a baby??

    Interesting topic and Im glad its been brought up. I never did realise what people were associating 'Hippy' culture with these days.
  11. StellaBlue

    StellaBlue Senior Member

    Thank you LaughinWillow! I've stated all of these very points time and time again on these forums and I get attacked for it. I'm glad to see someone feels the same way. :)
  12. for the most part i am against abortion, but i think a woman should have the choice to have an abortion if she is raped and becomes pregnant. i know if i were raped i probably wouldnt want to keep the baby. it's true that there are other options such as adoption, but each of those 9 months of pregnancy would be hell. each and every day would be a constant reminder of what happened to me and it would be so hard to live through. i dont know what my decision would be if i were in that situation because ive never been there, but i think the woman should have the option to do what she chooses in a case like this.
  13. renee

    renee Member

    I think if a woman got raped and got pregnant they should at least deliver the child and put it up for adotion. Besides, it wasn't the child or children's fault that you got raped. Also, some people who can't have children would love to adopt a child. I think abortion is selfish and vain. :(
  14. MamaTheLama

    MamaTheLama Too much coffee

    Ok "if a woman is raped" she can have an abortion. How would this LAW work?

    Most rapes do not get reported because it's just too friggin would this only apply to the women that went to the hospital immediately after being raped and had the little abortion/rape certificate/kit issued to them?

    Or would women that can't afford the pregnancy (yes,pregnancy is a very draining, very expensive experience, especially when you're malnourished,overworked and poor..and baby, they don't even give food stamps until you're already 6 months along) have to lie and send their boyfriends/husbands off to jail for rape in order to get an abortion?
    Or would they just lie and have the neighbor sent away for rape? Or claim it was mickey mouse just to save their own lives from a high risk pregnancy.

    What about incest? Do you know how frightful it is to report that?
    And what if the police STOP BELIEVING true rape cases and are even more suspicious of rape victims, thinking they just want an abortion certificate? Do we really want to make reporting a rape even worse of an experience?

    Stop forcing values on others through LAW.
    Try education, support and love.
    We have enough people in prison. Over 2 million in the US alone.
  15. renee

    renee Member

    I'm guessing you're pro-choice?
  16. I'm really pro-choice, but I can deal with people being pro-life. I mean, I see where they are coming from with the whole "a fetus is a human" thing and it already having a soul and a life as soon as it is conceived. But then at the same time, I still consider it a part of a woman's body and women should be able to control their own body. They should be able to have as much sexual freedom as they want. I don't believe in using abortion as another form of birth control, but mistakes do happen and some people just aren't ready for kids. I guess I just think it should be someones own decision and if they can live with it, then they should be able to do it. Just thought I'd get my voice out there, have a nice day.
  17. MamaTheLama

    MamaTheLama Too much coffee

    No, I'm anti needless imprisonment.
    Educating people on HOW TO AVOID ABORTION and support seem more important to me than forcing more people into prisons.

    Laws never protect who they're supposed to.
    Imagine that it's your son,brother,or husband that goes to prison for rape so a child may be aborted.
    Imagine it's your daughter who dies in childbirth because she was too scared to report a rape.
    Imagine it's yourself getting leered at by disbelieving officers when you finally get the strength to report the man who raped you.
    Imagine living on the streets pregnant. Really imagine it. The cops think you're a hooker and won't give you a certificate,they laugh as they send you away and threaten imprisonment for lying. Your back hurts and there's only concrete, your feet hurt but you have to move on because the police are cleaning up the area on their regular rounds,you're hungry,alone,exausted,no one wants to hire a pregnant woman, never mind a dirty homeless one with no references, you're on the list for food stamps and housing...but one is 3 months away still, and the other is a 5 year waiting list. Yes, you can go through an adoption agency where they will help you almost meet your very most basic needs (hotel room,bus fare,nothing that will last past the time of the birth) in order to keep you poor enough so that you'll still feel that you can't take care of your own baby (and yes, that IS how it works,been there, done that), only to find yourself back on the street,empty and broken.
    Now Imagine sending everyone that doesn't believe and act like you do into work camps, concentration camps, and prisons.

    I know if I sent everyone that didn't share my beliefs to prison that the world would be very empty. BUT I respect and empower everyone to have their beliefs, and speak their mind,and have their customs and I will share mine with them as much as is appropriate.
    I have never picked up the phone to dial 911 because someone worshipped budda (mortal sin..thou shall have no other god before me), was jealous (mortal sin..thou shall not covet), or ate a grape at the supermarket (mortal sin..thou shall not steal)..
    does anyone get what I'm saying here?

    Before everything else I support one thing :FREEDOM
    It's one thing I'm not willing to sacrifice.
  18. kilted2000

    kilted2000 Member

    Is it worse when a fetus is aborted of when a women dies because she had an illegal abortion with a wire hanger?
  19. kilted2000

    kilted2000 Member

    I'm not pro-abortion but I am pro-choice. figure that one out.
  20. renee

    renee Member

    It's really somebody else's body... Pfft, like you'll listen to me.

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