Powered Generator Grow Room

I am thinking of building a grow room in my garage and need some advise.

Firstly, I am wanting to grow 100 plants in an area of 30sq feet. Will this work and what type of ighting system would i need?

Secondly, as obtaining power via the grid is out of the question for obvious reasons- would it be possible to power the lights only with a generator?

I have done some research and if I was to have lights that add up to 2800watts (8x400watts), I would need a generator that could produce 4 Kva or 3kw.

Lastly what (in an ideal setup) yield could I expect from 100 plants on a per plant basis? I have been told that I could expect an ounce per plant. Is this correct?

I look forward to your reples.

Cheers

 

Hey, GrowSchool!
Firstly, I am wanting to grow 100 plants in an area of 30sq feet. Will this work and what type of ighting system would i need?
Using conventional methodes you need to allow about 1sq.ft. per plant for indoor growing = 100sq.ft. That's 4-5 thousand watts of HID lights, either "extended spectrum" High Pressure Sodium (30% Blue added) or a combination of HPS and Metal Halide.

Secondly, as obtaining power via the grid is out of the question for obvious reasons- would it be possible to power the lights only with a generator?
Yes - but a generator running at all hours will draw a lot of attention! Plus, the amount of light leakage would be like a "billboard"!! If you block all the light, you also block all the ventilation - it will get very hot in there. You want to keep the maximum temperature down to about 85f. with lots or fresh air!!!

I have done some research and if I was to have lights that add up to 2800watts (8x400watts), I would need a generator that could produce 4 Kva or 3kw.
2800watts will cover about 56-70sq.ft. or 56-70 plants.

Lastly what (in an ideal setup) yield could I expect from 100 plants on a per plant basis? I have been told that I could expect an ounce per plant. Is this correct?
It's not so much the number of plants you have that matters. It's the way you grow them - it's the amount of light and space each plant gets in addition to the proper nutrients and water, etc., etc. If you do everything right, you can get 1 gram per watt per harvest with HID's. With 2800 watts that's about 99 ounces (over 6 pounds) from 56 plants in 56sq.ft.. That's a pretty ambitious (and danderous) project. In reality, a beginner would be lucky to get 1/4 that much. My advice would be to start smaller - learn to control a "few" plants and develope your skills. You can always buy more lights and a generator later!

 

Thanks T.H Cammo,

I understand the your theory about the generator making noise but I am able to build a sound proof enclosure to house the generator with the appropriate ventilation of course.

For 100 plants in an area of say 50 sq feet what would be the appropriate lighting setup?

I expect to build a room with adequate ventilation as i am willing to spend about $5000 to build an ideal room.

I also am concerned about those bloody thermal imaging cameras. If I insulate the room using various insulation materials and use anti detection foil would this be enough. I also am going to build an outer wall (approx 500mm) around the grow room an have cool air flow inside this space as to further defeat the fuzz. The coll air would be totally separate from the grow space.

What do you think?

 

Quick question.

Can a generator run HID lights?

 

"Thanks T.H Cammo,"
No problem!

I understand the your theory about the generator making noise but I am able to build a sound proof enclosure to house the generator with the appropriate ventilation of course.
Sounds good!

For 100 plants in an area of say 50 sq feet what would be the appropriate lighting setup?
That's still only 1/2sq.ft. per plant - when they grow a little and start to crowd each other, you have a real dense canopy, so the light can't get through. The "Sea Of Green" (SOG) technique works that way - a lot of real small plants, crowded in close together. It's a question of 100 cramped up plants or about 56 plants with room to breath. The end result is about the same, 100 ounces - if, that's if you do everything right!!! A good rule of thumb for HID lights is 50watts per sq.ft. Over 60watts is overkill and under 40watts is considered weak; do-able, but weak! Four 600watters would cover 50sq.ft. with 48watts/sq.ft. - BINGO!!!

I expect to build a room with adequate ventilation as i am willing to spend about $5000 to build an ideal room.
That should do it!!! The most common problems are underfunding and poor planning. If you're willing to spend the bucks, that will take you a long way! Read, read - learn, learn - study, study!!!

I also am concerned about those bloody thermal imaging cameras. If I insulate the room using various insulation materials and use anti detection foil would this be enough. I also am going to build an outer wall (approx 500mm) around the grow room an have cool air flow inside this space as to further defeat the fuzz. The coll air would be totally separate from the grow space.
I don't really know what is adequate protection from those friggin' thermal mofo's. I'm sure something can beat 'em, but I can't help you there!

Can a generator run HID lights?
Yeah, as far as I know, they can!

 

T.H Cammo we need more people like you in this world-intelligent, prompt, discreet.

What you think about my idea on the outer wall and cool air.
I have been spending months reading and designing my grow room. I will not be defeated and like everything i do in my life I never fail. I will keep you updated on my progess if you dont mind.

 

Let me get back to you in the morning my friend - it's 3:30a.m. and I gots to get to beddy-by!

 

THC is the man

Be sure to check how your police view your garage. Searches differ when they are not for your house.

As for the generator, consider digging a pit and erecting a shed over it the earthen walls will dampen the sound and the shed will buffer and conceal it. The gas usage will go up with the size of load so buy big. You might want to consider using a fewer larger lights with a mover.

A garage can be like an oven so have a AC figured in just in case.

-B

 

BudBill,

Thanks for your post.

I am thinking along the lines of a generator that will power up to 2800watts. I calculate I will need a generator that can handle 4Kva. Do you know anything about this?
Not sure what you mean by having the AC figured. Please explain.
As for the amount of heat that will produce in reference to thermal cameras could you read about and tell me what you think about my design of having a hollow outer wall with cool air circulating inside it.

 

I am not a credible source for generators but in my limited experience you most likely will be running a diesel (I think you can get dedicated natural gas models as well). I would contact a farm/tractor supply and explain that you are looking for a backup power supply for the house. Smaller gas generators (ones that can power the furnance, fridge, tv and some lighting) work well but are not meant for long term usage. You might need a fuseable switchbox installed for the connection.

For the AC question: Basically cooling. Venting will remove alot of heat but with summer coming the sun is going to bake that garage and run the humidity through the roof.

A hollow outer wall IMHO wouldn't work too well. It would be tough to justify the effort IF the stealth material would work on its own in conjunction with decent insulation.

100 plants = commercial grow = Federal. I don't know (and don't tell me) where you live but garages are not secure and neighbors are nosey. So what ever you do be careful.

-B

 

Hey BudBill!

You make me blush! I used to say that about Rangerdanger (the Rangerman). He is the man! R.I.P.!!!


Hey GrowSchool!
BudBill has articulated a few very good points that I was thinking about in the wee hours this morning - it's amazing what a few hours of sleep can do!

By BudBill: "100 plants = commercial grow = Federal. I don't know (and don't tell me) where you live but garages are not secure and neighbors are nosey. So what ever you do be careful".
Like I said, I would advise starting smaller; but whatever you decide to do, be careful!!! The "first rule" is tell no one. Also, 100 plants will smell to high heaven, that's another problem to deal with!

By BudBill: "For the AC question: Basically cooling. Venting will remove alot of heat but with summer coming the sun is going to bake that garage and run the humidity through the roof".
It was a real shocker for me to learn that cannabis isn't very heat tolerant. It thrives, with lights on (daytime) temperatures up to about 75 or 80 degrees f.; 10-15 degrees cooler at night (lights out). Even the relative humidity can be an issue (not too much & not too little) - it not only encourages mold (too much humidity), but it also hastens the uptake of water through transpiration (too little humidity). The chore of extra waterings may not seem like a big deal, but the water also carries nutrients - some of which can build up to toxic levels in extreme cases. The humidity is also a critical factor in adjusting the male/female ratio in seedlings (we want all the girls we can get!).
Anyway, the whole point here is "Complete Atmosphere/Temperature Control" - don't even get me started on Carbon Dioxide (Co2) for now!!! By the way, remind me to explain the concept of "The Six Limiting Factors" sometime (it's worth a whole new thread!!).
With a decent bankroll it shouldn't be any problem controling the basic environment that the plants need. Hopfully you will have some change left over.

By GrowSchool: "As for the amount of heat that will produce in reference to thermal cameras could you read about and tell me what you think about my design of having a hollow outer wall with cool air circulating inside it".
- - - "I also am going to build an outer wall (approx 500mm) around the grow room an have cool air flow inside this space as to further defeat the fuzz. The coll air would be totally separate from the grow space".
For practical reasons the outer wall is an excellent idea! It needn't be a solid construction (proper framed wall), just insulation and "masking" material. I take it that you mean a half a meter of "wiggle room" around the inside of the perimeter; not 500mm high. An insulated outer wall with a "window model" type air conditioner (about $200 or so) mounted about shoulder high (?) should do wonders to keep the temps down!! How hot and cold does it actually get in your garage during the year - it may not be that much of a problem for you. I live in a very hot and dry area of Southern California - our shed, even with good ventilation is over 100 degrees f. every damn day during the summer, so I worry about heat a lot!!!
On the other hand, I don't know if surrounding the grow area with cool air will fool the Cops. I know that submarines use layers of colder water to defeat SONAR detection - maybe it works the same way! I'll have to look into that and the anti-detection foil - I've heard that mylar, alone, doesn't work for stealth.

By GrowSchool: "I have been spending months reading and designing my grow room. I will not be defeated and like everything i do in my life I never fail. I will keep you updated on my progess if you dont mind".
I wouldn't have it any other way - Oo-rah!!! I hope a whole bunch of newbies are following this, they could really learn a lot about foresight and planning - what a concept, huh!!!

 

BudBill and T.H Cammo you both are a bundle of information. Thanks!!

I have sent an email (carefully) to a company that makes thermal imaging cameras
Here it is:

Thank you for your enquiry on our range of Thermal Imaging Cameras, to answer your question, unfortunately thermal imaging cameras can only see surface temperatures, so they cannot "see" through objects, including glass or plastic. You need to be in direct sight of the object with nothing in between to see that object. Your other question is yes, if everything is the same temperature then the camera will not see anything, the camera give a temperature picture and if the temp is the same then the image will be all the same.

Hope this helps, if you have any questions please contact me.

Regards

XXXXXX

As you can see if the temp is the same as other objects they will appear as one. The thermal cannot see through walls ect. If I was to keep the surrounding area (i.e the hollow cavity the same temp as my house the cameras will not pick up any noticeable difference, hence no growroom. FYI, my garage is a double garage attached to my home. From my temp reading my garage gets no hotter than 25 deg C in summer and even more cooler in winter as i am in the southern hemisphere.

As for humidity and temp control I have heard that you can purchase control modules that can control these (humdity & temp) automatically via user input..Is this correct and if so do they work?

I am of the opinion that with the right advise and research/learning ect I will be successful in having a high yield crop. I really hope others are readingthis and learn that you can never plan enough. What I plan to do (100 plants) would almost certainly lead to jail time so therefore a lot of planning is needed as I really dont want to spend X amount of years in a 6x6 cell!!

The trouble with most growers is that they do not plan at all. They think they will not get caught and over time start to tell the odd "friend" about their grow room. REMEMBER-TELL NO ONE AND PLAN PLAN PLAN!!

 

Cheers T.H Cammo!!

I response to your post I can tell you the following:-

As stated my garage is 25 C in summer and yes it would be the ideal growing temp if I didnt have to put in HID lights. I am curious to know how much 6 x 600watts would increase the overall temperature.

This morning I have been researching various types of insulation material and anti detection foil. As insulation batts which they use in the walls and ceilings of home are relatively cheap (and work effectively) I am coming to the conclusion that they are the way to go. If i completely insulate my garage with this material as well as the so called anti detection foil I would be getting close to becoming invisible as you put it.

In addition, my next strep would be extracting all the hot air out. As this is a small issue and can be done with various extraction fans, my only concern with this is the heat signature that the outlet from the fan will produce. A solution that a have come up with is splitting the cool air from the AC that will be blowing air into the hollow cavity (as previously stated in previous posts) so that the the cool air will be mixing with the extracted hot air-hence air that is extracted which is cool not hot and thus further defeating any type of thermal camera. What do you think?

Further, you make an excellent point in reference to the heat signature from the generator. I had not thought of that. Mmm...silly me. Thank you T.H Cammo. I shall think further for a possible solution and get back to you.

I have also been following up on using a generator to power the HID lights. I have found that in the US you can purchase generators that would provide enough power for the lights and can be run on LPG gas. If I were to do this I would have to import a generator from the US as from my research they do not offer such a generator in my country. LPG gas would be a better alternative to diesel or petrol as gas is a lot more cheaper, cleaner and does to let off as much noxious air of smell bad. Mmm, more things to do!!

At the moment I am drawing a digital plan of my planned growroom and once it is finished I shall post it for all to see and to obtain any recommendations or other ideas. Should take me a few day.

 

Hi Guys!

Upon reflection I would ditch the hollow wall idea and just insulate and drywall the garage on the inside. 3" is the standard I believe. Just run a AC to cool the grow room to a reasonable temp 80'F. Many people have converted their garage to a living quarter. A carbon filter on the exhaust fan should take care of odors and have the venting to the crawl space in the garage attic if you have one. You can always use the insulating panels to do the ceiling and vent into there. It will keep the radient heat from the sun out and venting into there will allow the heat to rise through the roof vents.

I would still rethink the size of the op that requires a generator. Smaller grows done correctly (sog with new clones every month can do quite well) will be more manageable. 400/600 for veg, flos for clones and seedlings and a 2x600 for flowering. Flood and drain?

Blending in and not drawing attention is going to be your main priority. You can probable get a LPG conversion for the generator - but between the noise and gas usage + your normal electric bill would make me go "hmmm wtf is going on there?"

Nudge nudge (for THCammo) maybe CO2 if the temps remain higher than optimum

Look forward to seeing the plans.

 

Hey BudBill... Thanks for your post.

I appreciate your input. I reference to ditching the hollow wall idea I somewhat disagree. Even if I were to insulate the garage and run AC to cool the growroom to 80'F, there would be a temperature difference between living space which would be 68'F and 77'F. I realize that it is a small amount but should I be taking chances with an operation such as this? You state that I should extract the air from the grow room into the crawlspace. In my research on thermal imaging, if I was to do this it would heat the roof of my home and this would show up on any thermal camera. My option is to do exactly as you state but also divert some of the cool AC air into the same outtake line that is connected to the extraction fan. Good idea? This should solve this problem.

Flood and drain?

I am considering a pot system that is connected to a central line attached to drippers in each pot and a drainage hose at the bottom of the pot which in turn is fed back by gravity to the water tank.

[BudBill] I am yet to find a supplier of LPG generators or suppliers of conversion kits in Australia. I may have to order one from overseas. My plan is to have two portable 45 gal tanks connected to the generator. These tanks are supplied and delivered for any home use and one would normally find them at the side of a home to supply gas for heaters. I doubt the gas company would be too concerned of using so much gas as long as I pay for it. I am not aware of any growrooms utilizing gas so hopefully the cops would be none the wiser.

As for the noise I will construct a soundproof box to house the generator and use various fan to extract the fumes and supply clean air to the generator. What do you think?

I have started the digital plans and should have them ready by Tuesday.

 

http://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/5696-thermal-imaging.html

Interesting

 

By GrowSchool:
Cheers T.H Cammo!!
In response to your post I can tell you the following:-

"As stated my garage is 25 C in summer and yes it would be the ideal growing temp if I didnt have to put in HID lights. I am curious to know how much 6 x 600watts would increase the overall temperature."
I find it difficult to equate c. and f. temperature scales - I guess i'm too old for that kind of stuff! lol But the answer is significantly! But that's not really a problem. The same ventilization system that draws off the hot air from the grow chamber can draw in cooler fresh air, keeping the temperture ideal. And like BudBill said, adding a Carbon Filter into the system will "deoderize" the operation. A hundred "stinky" plants will need a good sized filter I imagine.

"This morning I have been researching various types of insulation material and anti detection foil. As insulation batts which they use in the walls and ceilings of home are relatively cheap (and work effectively) I am coming to the conclusion that they are the way to go. If i completely insulate my garage with this material as well as the so called anti detection foil I would be getting close to becoming invisible as you put it."
As to the ADF (anti detection foil), my "eyes and ears" over at UK420 say that it's all hype and crap - I tend to agree. You can reflect radiant heat, but not ambiant heat. Anyway, it could be used in place of regular mylar to make reflective panals for the grow room. I'm still not sure that insulating the whole garage is needed, that would be 35? meters or so of walls, plus the cieling - that could get expensive! A well insulated outer "shell", built around the grow room would yield a much smaller environment - much easier to control and much cheaper, IMHO. I was thinking that the outer shell could be constructed out of styrofoam or polyurethane solid insulation sheeting of the appropriate thickness - sort of like a big styrofoam picnic cooler.

In addition, my next strep would be extracting all the hot air out. As this is a small issue and can be done with various extraction fans, my only concern with this is the heat signature that the outlet from the fan will produce. A solution that a have come up with is splitting the cool air from the AC that will be blowing air into the hollow cavity (as previously stated in previous posts) so that the the cool air will be mixing with the extracted hot air-hence air that is extracted which is cool not hot and thus further defeating any type of thermal camera. What do you think?
Yeah man!!! That's exactly what I'm thinking! The exact details might get a little sticky, but that's the same principle I have in mind. The same system that "actively" moves the hot air from the grow room to the cavity (and hopefully filters it), can also draw fresh air into the grow room (either actively or passively). I'm sure that we can find very simple ways to mix the hot and cool air together - the tricky part will be to have the mixed air match the temperture of the "normal" air in the garage.

Further, you make an excellent point in reference to the heat signature from the generator. I had not thought of that. Mmm...silly me. Thank you T.H Cammo. I shall think further for a possible solution and get back to you.
He-he-he! I didn't really think of it either, my step-son did. We were talkin' last night and he had some ideas. He also thought about making the "inner wall" (between grow room and cavity) out of aluminum or some other metal sheeting to act as a "heat sink" (to transfer heat better), I thought that might be "overkill", but it's something to keep in mind.

"--- If I were to do this I would have to import a generator from the US as from my research they do not offer such a generator in my country. LPG gas would be a better alternative to diesel or petrol as gas is a lot more cheaper, cleaner and does to let off as much noxious air of smell bad. Mmm, more things to do!!
I didn't even think about that! Funny you should mention it though, it goes hand in hand with something else my step-son said. He thought the generator could be "internal", with proper venting of course (taking advantage of the "cooling system"). I thought it would produce too much heat, then I thought "Wow - extra CO2, and plenty of it!". Then I thought about Carbon Monoxide poisoning. He said "Carbon Monoxide filters". I thought it was getting pretty complicated!!! But it's true, LPG does burn a whole lot cleaner. They even use it here in the U.S. to power forklifts used inside warehouses, it smells kind of funny but it's not toxic. That may turn out to be the Grand Daddy of all CO2 generators!!! I wonder if you can just get an adapter kit of some sort to run a standard generater, I'm thinking of economics mostly.

At the moment I am drawing a digital plan of my planned growroom and once it is finished I shall post it for all to see and to obtain any recommendations or other ideas. Should take me a few day.
Yeah, you'll probably be done before I can make a rough drawing - too damn many irons in the fire, I'm affraid.

Flood and drain?
That's just another name for Ebb and Flow. It's one type of hydroponic growing, where the plants are grown in small gravel or clay pellets. The pots are filled with growing solution and then drained - this cycle happens several times per day.

By BudBill:
"Nudge nudge (for THCammo) maybe CO2 if the temps remain higher than optimum."
Yeah, it's tue! For some reason that I don't entirely understand, CO2 allows the plants to continue to grow and be happy at "higher" temperatures. They will also grow bigger and faster - I understand that part (more buds, quicker!). I've never added CO2 myself, always seemed kind of complicated, and good ventilation is almost foolproof. But with an LPG generator as a source of "relatively clean" CO2 - why let it go to waste?

"I would still rethink the size of the op that requires a generator. Smaller grows done correctly (sog with new clones every month can do quite well) will be more manageable. 400/600 for veg, flos for clones and seedlings and a 2x600 for flowering. Flood and drain?"
Again, I agree with BudBill that starting off smaller and then expanding into something bigger after two or three grows, makes a lot of sense. Even if you do build the "whole thing" now, I would still suggest that you start with a smaller "practice" grow. But if you have your heart set on it, I think it was Admiral David Farragut who said "Damn the torpedos! - Full speed ahead!!!

 

OK ..thanks for all your input.
Thank your step son for me too.
I tend to agree with you in respect of the ADF too. I didnt think it would work as well as they say, and yes it is expensive-too expensive for this bloke.

I like you idea regarding the 'picnic cooler'. I think syrofoam mixed with insulation batts would work quite well.

I have thought about purchasing a converter kit for the generator to LPG but I am hesitant in do this as I may install it incorrectly and it might go BANG!! I dont want to mess with gas leaks and the like.. I would prefer to buy a generator that is already complete as so it is safe and installed by people who know what they are doing.

Will the generator produce CO2? Never thought of that.

Anyway...have to get working on this drawing.

 

I have one quick question. I am planing on doing a sea of green with my plants. Ive heard that its good for them because its easier for the light to hit a larger surface area of the plants but I've also heard people talk about how it's not beneficial in other ways. is the sea of green going to decrease the amount of buds I get?? I woud appreciate if you have any feedback on SOG in general. Thank you!