post pics or stories of people who have attained perfection in yoga

Yes - I think it is pretty un-equivocal. I quoted SP's version here, a man whom I have criticised previously. But whatever the drawbacks with SP he was IMO many, many stages above those who go in for this sort of thing.

As you say, sects of different types have practiced auto-castration and similar things in the past. I'd point out to those who think that might justify it that many also practiced stuff like human sacrifices and so on.

I don't think going to extremes is ever really a good thing. With sexuality, too much obsession with it is no doubt a bad thing, and we all know the problems it can lead to. But this is simply going to the opposite extreme.
Moderation and balance is the thing in my opinion. Neither the sex-obsessed 'tantric' or the self mutilator know much about either of those things. Both distort spirituality in one direction or another.

 

All well said.

 

Yes I agree, you don't have to be celebate for nine years , torture yourself and lift bricks with your sexual organs to be free of sexual desire. One can just chant Hare krishna hare krishna, krishna krishna hare hare, hare rama hare rama rama rama hare hare with pure devotion once and be free

For some reason, I feel like chiefcowpie misses the points of Hindu teachings all together.

 

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with Bhaskar's posts, we can now list him amongst those who have attained perfection... nice posts Baskar

in all fairness, this post was humourously done but i think the critical anylisis it invokes can be liberating

 

well i thought as much...devious old chief cowpie....

I agree that it has had interesting results.
It's the sort of thing which, as they say, gives me the willies....:jester:

 

After reading the Chief's post I had another look at this - and I have to say that this is one of the most absurd defences of the in-defensible I have ever encountered. How can a man with a disfunctional penis, which he himself has caused to be made so be said to have 'improved' in physical condition?
He is actually no longer capable of performing the quite normal and natural function of sexual intercourse.
And for what? To become a sideshow freak.

Meantime, others no doubt pray to god for an erection, and when that doesn't work, go buy some viagra.

BTW - If you think I am not able to tell who is enlightened, I assume you yourself are?

 

You mean this entire post was put here to mock him? and I am here posting about Ramanuja , Adi Shankaracharya and andal? This is distasteful.

Why don't you all talk about something spiritual for a change rather than passing judgements on people based on your own ignorant limited viewpoints? There is nothing spiritual in this forum, nothing meaningful anyway, I should have seen this before.

 

me? i didn't judge him, it just isn't my path to do as he has and i find it amusing some extremes some people go to find whatever there is to be discovered... if this fellow has found joy... god, good for him

i find it absurd as bhaskar has pointed out, this constant pointing out in others of why they are on the wrong path,... perhaps god is speeking through the people who point out the faults in others so we know the foolishness of their ways

my way,

don't curse the darkness, light a light..., be a light unto the world

 

These are to examine yourself, not to judge others.

What evidence is possible? This is not any worldly knowldege, there is no syllabus for enlightenment and no standard testing service can certify a jnani. Simle thing is that it cannot be proved. Such things are a matter of faith, reinforced by behavior the person in question (said behavior is not absolute evidence, it can be and often is faked).

 

I was playing devil's advocate and simply saying that we have no business judging others. We don't knwo what was in his mind and what his motivation was. It may not have anything to do with sex at all.
All I am saying is that we have incomplete information, and lack understanding of the cultural context of his behavior (even, although I am from the same land). Naturally it seems absurd to us and wouldn't work for us. But it worked for him and if his yogic practices (which might not be limited to lifting objects with his penis) help him develop inner peace, who are we to question it?

Maybe that was his intent. Maybe he gave into his impulses and hurt someone, and as atonement performed such penance. We don't know why. If you want to judge that is fine, but no judge can deliver a meaningful judgement when deprived of the full facts.

If you'd read my posts earlier, the thrust of it was that it is not possible to tell, just as a layman has no way of evaluating of the post doctoral thesis of a physicist.

And what difference does it make anyway?

Does condemning this person help us grow spiritually? Does supporting help either?

If you can grow from it, fine. If not it is useless gossip.

 

I quite disagree...perhaps its just hidden... I suppose we should work harder to shed more light on it... There's two sides to everything... so perhaps we need some silly things so that we better understand the deeper realities to things. Like this thread started silly, but it lead to interesting discussion...and I did read the things you posted on Adi Shankara and others...you should have kept them... they were interesting.

 

It makes very little difference to me personally. However, in general I think that sort of thing is to be condemmned.
Criticism of the actions of others could help one grow spiritually - at least being able to understand that certain acts are intrinsicly wrong.
This person is a very bad advert for Hinduism in general - most sensible people would find self mutilation abhorent, and rightly so.

It isn't some form of cultural prejudice on my part - I'm equally dismissive of christian groups such as Opus Dei who practice self-flagellation and wear leg chains, Buddhist monks who set themselves on fire etc.

Back to condemnation of certain modes of action - the Gita contains quite a lot of that, as does the Bible and indeed many other scriptures.
A bland acceptance of everything labelled 'spiritual' is the way to delusion.

The idea that this guy had his penis broken as some form of atonement is equally insane. How does it atone for harming another to harm oneself? That's just piling error on error. Would it not be better if he engaged in some useful activity aimed at helping others?

It is counter intuitive, and is an example of what Taoism calls 'forcing things'. If you want to abstain from sex but can't do so, the answer is probably to re-evaluate sexuality, rather than chop it off or some similar thing.

 

Where do we draw the line between what is spiritual and what isn't?

Knowing the Chief of old, I suspected that this post was meant tongue in cheek, and to be provacative. In effect, the discussion which ensued has raised some points which I think are relevant and do relate broadly to spirituality.

Anyway Jedi, I don't agree that there is nothing spiritual in this forum - many of the regulars including Chief Cowpie do post some interesting stuff here. It's far bettter here IMO than any of the other forums on these boards. That's why I stick around.

Spirituality doesn't preclude humour - in fact, it's an essential part of any real spirituality. Otherwise we'd end up like the mad mullahs - dreary and darkened.

 

Jedi...lighten up, man. That's what we're here for, to share limited viewpoints and hopefully gain knowledge from someone else who's been where we haven't.

You've got to remember that persons such as this sadhu come across as extremely bizarre to persons such as myself and Bill...who have maybe had many years of exposure to Hindu thought through various "watered-down" versions aimed at westerners but grew up deeply immersed in American Protestant Bible-Belt culture or stuffed full of Catholicism and still carry around a lot of that in our heads.

As I read it, definitely there to evaluate others as well as oneself. In BG Chapter 2, verse 54, Arjun directly asks Krishna about the characteristics of a self-realized soul, and Krishna explains and describes these at length in the verses that follow.

You more or less answered your own proposition here, taking the Gita as authority.

 

Hare Krishna!


In His divine Lila a devotee should accept everything without getting agitated or overjoyed. When everything dissolves into the ocean of nothingness the light of spirit shows up. Until then we are all ignorant no matter what our level of understanding and knowledge is.

Dhal Nehi, Talwar Nehi, "Nidhiram Sardar" !
Saviours without the shield and the sword !

That is what we try to be. We should rather discuss the true saviours, their achievements and their paths of journey. The great yogis, sadhus and avatars can only help in our aspirations. Let us share the stories of their ways and means. Just one word or one sentence from them can transform us.

Criticism of anybody, not only sadhus, takes us backward only. Despite our best efforts we do it but let us keep trying not to criticize anybody. The truth always prevails, our sincere quest for Him will always save us from the fake saviours, the "Nidhiram Sardars".

Love.