Possible draft?

"The facts are that Bush's Intel was off because it failed to mention that the weapons were hidden.... You have no proof that they don’t exist... u only bank on the fact that we have not found aney... well we have been attacked by seren gas a chemical weapon... a WMD... and not to mention that I could easily hide asmany WMDs as I want in the Iraqi deserts"


Hidden? What were all those satellite pictures showing the buildings that housed the supposed WMDs back before the US attacked?

 

Good point. I recall those pictures...

Hmm, just thinking, say Iraq actually had WMD and we found them and took control of them. That would in no way make me support this war. Everyone keeps using the fact that "there could be weapons of mass destruction" when that in no way is a factor that would swing my support for the war in Iraq. Who cares if they have/had WMD? Did they attack us with them? No. So, why is the U.S. allowed to have WMD (you know we do) but Iraq cannot? It doesn't make any sense.

Also, (this one especially goes out to Real American if he is still around) if you are one of the ones who fully supports this war, then I have a question for you. Since you think this cause is worth the loss of human life, then would you give up the life of your own child to secure Fallujah (sp?)? Or perhaps your spouse's life? No, I really doubt you would.

 

Well assumption is the mother of all f-ups. My son is 6 yrs old and can't fight in any war. My wife is to old to be drafted, but if she decided she wanted to join one of our nations military services, then I would support her decision. If I am still alive when my son is old enough and he decides he wants to join, I will support him. How very childish of you to assume that you know me.

OK, first off, the war in Iraq is over, and has been over. What we are fighting in Iraq right now is terrorist cells. As far as this statement here:

Well, the US doesn't exactly test their weapons on their own people do they?

I honestly don't think anything would make you support this "war" unless you were directly affected. Wich sadly is the way most selfish Americans think.

 

Go get 'em, boys! GRRRRR!!! :X

LOL!

 

THEY PROMISED that my 19-yr-old brother would never get drafted or have to be diployed. Well guess what?,....THEY LIED! My brother's # has come up 3 times to get diployed and his friend who was promised the same thing recently got diployed. My dad said if he gets diployed and gets killed he is personally going after bush. FIGHT THE POWER!

 

Sarin gas has a shelf life of 3 months. The Sarin gas that was found was found after Saddam was in custody. Unless Saddam has Lex Luthor-like planning ability to organize manufacturing Sarin Gas from a hole in the ground or a jail cell, the Sarin gas we found came in after we invaded and after we captured Saddam.
As far as reasons for this War,
OIL!you need look no further.
The WMD turned out to be hype, all experts and people who had anything to do with intelligence and weapons inpections (Scott Ritter, Joseph Wilson, Ray McGovern, etc.) were saying this BEFORE the war started!
The Iraq/ Al-Quieda link was nonexistent. The best that ABC could find before the war was three men in prison in Northern Iraq(which Saddam didn't control) who turned out to be lying! The 9-11 commission concluded the same thing recently.
The 9/11 highjackers were Saudis and Egyptians. Niether coutry faced the possibility of invasion. But Iraq, was an easy target with its infrastructure crumbling due to 12 tears of sanctions (condemned by the Vatican no less). An easy target with a lot of OIL!
If you don't want a constant war for oil. Or just a constant war. (The draft is a very real possibility. Both Houses of Congress have bills on the backburner, waiting for a vote after the election), then get involved and DO SOMETHING NOW!!!
Volunteer at the Democratic Party to help unseat Bush!
Write and call your Senators and Congressmen.
Seek out and involve yourself in peacekeeping organizations in your area.

Be Seeing You

 

So you think doing this will stop terrorists? That is just lame. Once again, even if you think the war ws over oil, it removed a deranged man from power. It removed a murderer. He did use wmd's on his own people. If Bush was to do this you would be screaming and holering to stop him. So enough with the mentality that "it's not our problem" crap. Seriously folks, you want peace you have to fight for it. Obviously the Iraqi's were unable to fight for themselves. Now we are fighting terrorists that only seek to destroy and cause havoc in peoples lives. What kind of barbarians behead people? I'll say this and end my debate here, if you don't like the idea of having to serve your country, then get the hell out. You are free to leave right now. Pack your bags and move to France for all I care. Obviously you take the freedom you so adimantly cry about for granted. PEOPLE DIED SO YOU COULD HAVE YOU FREEDOM, WHY IS IT SO BAD THAT PEOPLE DIE TO GIVE OTHERS FREEDOM NOW? Go on, leave, America will be a better place without the cowards. Oh, and that is an attack to all of you that want to hide from the draft. From now on, I'll just read your post, but obviously nothing I say will change your mind. Obviously you don't think other people deserve freedom.

 

Hello R.A.

I believe you are sincere when you talk about stopping terrorists.
Since your question "How would that stop terrorists?" is a valid one, I'll give you by personal answer based on incidents in history that occurred at the same time.
Northern Ireland and Israel have had massive problems with terrorism. In the 1990s, the hard right Likud party came to power with a philosophy similar to the neo-cons. Attack without mercy, civilian casualties are not a problem, it's terrorism when they attack us with a suicide bomber, but not when we massacre them in Jenin. Things have never been worse in Israel and they've been pursuing this policy for a long time. They will be locked in a state of permanent war until this changes. Not that the few who profit from war in Israel mind this.
Northern Ireland invited the IRA to the table, negotiated a cease-fire, and eventually gave the disenfranchised Irish (who had nothing to lose by becoming terrorists) a voice in the system. The IRA evaporated! It was once #1 on the FBI's list of dangerous terrorist organizations. Now there are only a few hard core elements left that are dealt with as criminals and locked away.
Looking at this and looking at Bush's actions, I have to question whether he and those controlling him genuinely want to end terrorism. Do they instead wish for a state of permanent war?Once again, those truly selfish Americans whocharge $250 million for a defense contract they then sub contract out for $600K, don't mind this one bit!
By the way, for the record, Reagan's special envoy to Iraq in 1983, Donald Rumsfeld, SOLD Saddam Hussein WMDs during his worst atrocities. After the Gulf War those Iraqi people who were "unable to fight for themselves" tried to unseat Saddam and Bush Sr. turned his back on them and gave Saddam 1 billion in loan guarentees.
"What kind of barbarians behead people?" Try the Saudi Royal Govt.(very good friends of the Bush family) I know you won't see Farenheit 911, but it does contain graphic footage of a state sponsored beheading.
And for the record, IT'S OUR COUNTRY TOO! Anyone that is exercising their freedom of speech at a time when it is difficult is every bit the patriot as someone who listens to FOX NEWS, never questions it and merely parrots what he hears. Speaking your mind when it is difficult and might carry significant personal risk is an act of selflessness and bravery not cowardice!
RA, I believe you are sincere in wanting to "Support Our Troops". Those of us who believe we are being lied to from our "leaders", want our troops home and out of danger, and not protecting the interests of War Profiteers! Bush and the Republican Congress showed thier "support" for our troops by cutting thier benefits, (including thier hazard pay benefits).
You probably don't believe it but I do wish you the best and hope that one day you are able to free your mind.

 

Ugh, leave the age out of it. That isn't what I meant. What I AM saying is that you support this war, but you wouldn't give up the life of a loved one to help its cause. For example, would you (I KNOW THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE, R.A.) allow for the death of a loved one to secure a stupid police force in Iraq? No way you would (unless your crazy.) That's what I'm trying to say... you don't mind that other people die for truly useless causes, but you wouldn't want any of your loved ones to die for the same cause. Now, before you say ANYTHING, that situation was hypothetical.

Actually, they are attempting to assist in the creation of a solid government system in Iraq... you know, setting up police, fire, medical. Well, all of that is good, but there are many more people who need a lot more help than the Iraqis. There are people starving all over the world and living under power-drunk leaders. There are tons of people dying from disease in other nations. If we are SO worried about the well being of people from other nations, then we should go and help out some of those who REALLY need it.

Actually, yes, we have tested weapons on our own people. I read about a case that described an event when we were first testing nuclear bombs (for the future drops on Hiroshima and Nagasaki) and while testing, we ended up killing multiple people who were part of the testing process. So, to answer your question, yes, we DO test weapons on our own people.

If you think not supporting a decision that the American government makes means you are not a "Real American," then you don't understand anything about our nation. We have the right to exercise our opinions! If everyone acted like you do then we would never make any improvements to our government. Heck, if people acted like you, our nation would still be segregated. Women wouldn't be voting. Think about what you are saying here...

 

I couldn't pass this up, so I am replying.

Yet again, someone assuming. I have seen it and it was interesting. Moore himself said that it was a biased film that did not cover both sides of the story. Amazingly you like many other drones are so quick to believe what you hear the first time without doing your own research. Want to know what I think is funny? Other than your IRA analogy, your entire reply consists of information you learned by watching a left wing documentary. You my friend are a coward. I don't care if Bush is in office or Kerry. Either way you will always have corruption. If you think the corruption will end, you are a moron. I will ask you this one question, and I want you to think carefully before you answer it. Do the Iraqi people deserve what we have(ie freedom, hospitals, education). If you say no they don't, then you are a selfish degenerate that needs a serious attitude adjustment. If you say yes they do, then tell me why you are complaining about men and women fighting for that right? Tell me why it was ok for men ages ago to fight and kill for your freedom, but not now, and not for someone else?

As for the child Lucifer Sam:

I personaly noone wants their loved ones to die. For you assume that I don't care for the lives of the others, well, again, you don't know me. If only there was a way for mw to show you my true emotions on this subject online. You are no different than the rest of the cowards. As I have said to another coward, I will fight for you and your family, so you can sit home and cry about your rights being taken away.

As of right now, the war is on terrorism. I am quit posative if it continues, we will end up helping other countries. Unless you are suggesting that we send 25,000 soldiers to each country to "help" them, well, that's just dumb. I am sure at your young age, you remeber hearing "one thing at a time".

Are you serriously this stupid? So you are saying that our government at one point was testing nuclear weapons, and several people involved in the testing procces were purposfully killed? No you moron, it was an accident, as accidents do happen. So NO, we don't test weapons of mass destruction on our own people.

BECAUSE SOMEONE DIED FOR YOU TO BE ABLE TO! Hopefully, very soon, Iraqi's will be able to say the same thing. Ofcourse, with them expiriencing it first hand, they will likely appreciate their freedom more tha nyou ever could.

I take back my question now, I now know you are truely this stupid.

 

I'm actually really angry now... I've never been truly angry with anyone on this board. But now, this is for real... :$

RA, look at how damn condecending you are. Look at what I just pulled out of your post, really read over it, and tell me why people would listen to someone who insults them at every turn? This is ludicrous, you can't even spell simple words like "quite", "seriously", and "truly", and you have the audacity to call people stupid. I had tried to see where you are coming from, I tried to meet you halfway, I tried not to be judgemental, regardless of you lack of concern for others opinions and feelings. I even defended you and your opinions from the others, but now I see what they have seen all of this time. You aren't here to discuss opinions. You're here to attack people that don't feel the same way.

1) No the corruption won't end. All politicians are corrupt and invest in their own interests... Usually through "special interest groups" that have them in their back pocket. But this goes for ALL parties.

2) Again, American lives perished to pay for American freedoms. Iraqis should have done the same. NO AMERICAN BLOOD FOR FOREIGN LIVES.

3) If we don't believe in fighting, no one should make us go. We have the right to claim pacifism, and if we are pacifists we will do so. Our gov't gives us the right. Not necessarily that they will honor that, but they have no honor most of the time anyway.

4) Oh yes, let's "help" them by killing civilians and going against the UN's wishes, I love it when the U.S. is made into a bigger international a**hole than it already is. The UN was created to help keep the peace, and if we aren't participating as a peaceful nation, what is the point in being a member if we aren't going to cooperate?

 

Selfish cowards. You are afraid to help other people. You think you are better than them. Seriously, pack up and leave America, you aren't an example of why men and women died. Oh, and while you are at it noticing my spelling errors, pull a Sherlock Holmes and see what time I made the post. After a very long days work, dealing with morons, I came home and found more. I didn't make lucifer sam type those things about me. I didn't make him type things he has no clue about. As a matter of fact, I have tried my best to see other peoples points of views. So when I get a crap load of hippies yelling at me when I ask a guy why he says the war is wrong, you can understand my urge to slap the facts right into your head. You say you are a pacafist, yet men fighting for our freedom was ok? BULL CRAP! I truly believe that if it came down to it right now, this very minute, that you were asked to defend your country and protect our freedom, you would run like a coward screaming "I'm a pacifist".

 

Actually that's where you don't know ME, sir. No, you are right, I'm not a true pacifist, but there are people who are. I will vouch for them. They will not fight under any circumstance. I, personally, would be of no use to the military, as I have no skills that they could possibly use, so it is a waste of their time and mine. (Unless they need a military journalist, which is kind of an oxymoron, considering how "hush hush" military business is)

I've tried to meet you halfway, I've tried to understand, but you are certainly cocksure of yourself, so much so, in fact, that you've tried to insult me, and I'm the only one on here who even ATTEMPTS to defend you. But I do get tired of watching you insult my fellow forum folks, and it's about time I said something about it. You were the one who started everything off with a piss poor attitude (read your first post, or do I need to break down the insults in that one). Some people are getting tired, and returning the piss poor attitude right back to you.... At first, I said, rise above angry answers! Now I say, WHAT WAS I THINKING??? We've beaten this subject to death, and we aren't covering any new ground, because you can't agree to disagree with people.

As for me, I am tempered enough to say that Afghanistan was the right fight. And if there had been more evidence of Iraq's involvement in 9/11, I might feel differently about all of this. WE DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH EVIDENCE. We can't go declaring war on everyone we are suspect of. If we (the U.S.) were a police force that went into someone home (Iraq) under mere suspicion of illegal activity without a warrent (approval of the UN), our whole case would be thrown out right about now.

And no, RA, I'm not better than anyone else... It's not ME who thinks they are better than others, for any reason, whatsoever. I just feel that people should reap rewards that they work for. I don't like freeloaders... The Iraqis are the cowards for not fighting for their own freedom, WE are of sane mind, and don't like the idea of dying FOR cowards. Stand up to your government and your administration if you don't support their causes! (We, the damn hippies, do it all of the time)

And besides, do you really think the Arabs would die for you, RA?

 

What the Hell are you talking about? That basically makes no sense. First of all, how in the Hell do you know that I'm a coward? I never said that I would dodge a draft and I never said that I don't support war of any kind... all I said is that I don't support THIS war. Also, what is this about you saying you will fight for my family and I? What are you talking about? You act like we're being invaded or something... seriously, you make no sense and, for lack of a better phrase, are full of shit. You just came on here to bash hippies... didn't you realize that this place is BASED ON HIPPIES / THE HIPPY MOVEMENT?!

Ok, my cousin is in Iraq right now and he said that at the moment they are working on securing a police force and emergency medical services and NOT fighting terrorism. I suppose you will say that he is wrong, but, meh, I don't give a shit anymore.

No, I was not suggesting that, you idiot. If you knew how to fucking read AND understand at the same time you would have gotten it. Now, what I WAS saying is that the Iraqis' rights to free speech aren't as important as providing food, shelter, and medicine to those who really need it. Of course, we aren't helping in those nations who really need it because we don't have any interests there... gives us nothing to gain. Our government is greedy, believe it or not, and they are in Iraq for certain interests.

God, here we go again. I never said that they were deliberately killed, and I never said that it wasn't an accident. I said that the weapon was tested and that Americans died as a result. Now, since according to you I am a moron, you will obviously disagree, but I definitely see that as testing on our people... I don't care if they were meant to die, but they did.

UGH!!! Wow... Ok, so you acknowledge that people died for our freedom to have and display our own opinions, yet when one of us has a different opinion than yours, it's not ok, and you attack him/her? You are a hypocrite.

Shut up... you have displayed to many that you are a total, close-minded idiot so you ought to just shut your mouth. You have attacked everyone who has disagreed with you. In fact you attacked EVERYONE on these forums with this statement: "So when I get a crap load of hippies yelling at me..." Ok, so now we are a crap load of hippies... seriously, you, Real American, are the scum of the Earth.

Oh, but you are? Just because we don't support an unjust war we don't deserve to live in The United States? YOU are the moron. PART OF WHAT MAKES AMERICA GREAT IS THAT YOU CAN, AND SHOULD, DISAGREE WITH THE GOVERNMENT! THAT IS WHAT PEOPLE FOUGHT FOR!

You my friend are an asshole. Because, in your opinion, his defense came from a left-wing documentary, he is a coward?! That makes no sense, just like most of the other shit you have posted.

You have a superiority complex, no doubt. You think you're better than the "crap load of hippies" on this forum, and, well, it looks like you think you're better than everyone. As I said before, your name being "Real American" says it all.

Hmm... funny that you attack people for "assuming" things about you, yet you continue to assume things about everyone else. In fact, if there was a draft, and I was drafted, I would fight... I wouldn't avoid it, break the law, and embarass my family just because I don't support the cause. I would serve my country if it needed me. You don't know shit about me or anybody else here so, again, shut up.

All I can say now is, I feel sorry for your son... too bad his father has to be such an asshole. Sometimes I don't like my parents, but I could never live with someone like you. I think I actually hate you now, Real American. I really do.

 

Haha, I just decided to look at other posts by Real American, and ALMOST EVERY ONE was an argument or an attack. Heh, you ARE here to fight and you know it. You think you're right and everyone else is wrong.

 

LOL! I'm with you, man! He deceived me for a while though.
I really wanted to believe that not all conservatives are closed minded a**holes... I guess some stereotypes speak for themselves.

 

Heh, well, I don't think that all conservatives are closed minded a**holes, but I have to say that I think this one is! *Points to Real American*

 

ummm.... I love you too guys???


LOL... no really. Let's not argue about this.

I think we should help other nations. I also believe there are better ways to do so than through war. That is my very simple opionion. I don't hate you, RA, really, I don't. You're intitled to your opionions... just please don't go and insult everybody. Now everybody's all pissed off!

~~~~~peace on the boards!~~~~~

 

"Heh, well, I don't think that all conservatives are closed minded a**holes, but I have to say that I think this one is! *Points to Real American* "





from dictionary.com. . .
con·ser·va·tive ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kn-sûrv-tv)
adj.

1. Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change.

To me, that looks like a nice way of saying "close minded asshole".

 

Hehe, well, yes, you make a good point. Although, I think many use the word "conservative" too loosely. Many would compare being a conservative to being a prude, really.