Possible draft?

Bush cant be a tyrent.. this is the US our founding fathers made the presidency too week for the President to be a tyrent.. altho im glad you agree that saddam is a tyrent.. alot of people are anti-war because they think he is a good guy..

but Like I was saying Bush is not a tyrent.. unless Clinton was.. because they both attacked countries.. atleast "Bush's war" as you might call it although the congresional vote was unanimous.. hasn't got 17 of our most elete soldiers killed in one night on a mission that should have taken a hour.. along with over 1,000 of the people we were fighting.. (Mogodeshu)..

Bush may not be the best president.. In fact the only reason I support him is because..
1. he is the president

2. He is much better than Gore (a crazey eco-nut who says Bush will start an Ice age [FYI no one man can do that..]) and kerry (a man who's stance is what ever is most convenent at the time..)

3. "His war" has liberated the people of a country who have been supresed than longer than I have been alive... and "His war" on terrorism has cut off one of the major supporters of ben-ladin the next bigest threat to fredom, besides saddam Husaine, since Hitler..

Bush cant and will never be a tyrent and to say that he is is just rediculas..

At least your somewhat reasonable.. Some people think we need to leave them alone and let them colapse on there stone-adge selves..
and yea the war on terrorism will take along time.. It may not be over in our lifetimes (although I doubt it may be) but we should do as best we can to stop as much terrorism as posible..

as you say that is opinion.. In my opinion I dont think your right.. there is no evidence to say its a re-election plot.. (even if so not goin to well by the looks of things IMHO he is smarter than that he would have chosen a better plot..) and there were only rumors about the draft being reinstated.. even the Liberal media isn't talking about it..

I will even admit that is a good comeback lol

but RA srry to say ur sinking to there level, my point was that swearing gets you no where.. debate there rediculas comments dont make your own.

 

Holy crap, I only left this thread for a short while (I couldn't resist, I'm back, I need more of my Real American fix... LOL ), and I return to find some kind of God awful mess!!!

EVERYONE on this board is better than this. We are ALL intelligent individuals with opinions that are worth being heard with an unjudgemental ear. Real American is not a bad guy, but I think that he's trying to make us think about why we feel the way we do. No, he's not necessarily doing a great job... Real American, I'm not attacking you, but when you come onto a forum where most people's opinions differ from yours, you should present your arguments respectfully if you actually want people to listen and make them honestly think about their opinions (why you are on here in the first place, correct?), otherwise, you're just wasting space. And I've been over how we shouldn't stoop to the level of insulting people back, just b/c it does nothing for the good of the whole debate. I came back here b/c I was craving some more good-natured fun (I don't take this stuff personally, by the way, I just become addicted to the nature of debate) and I find myself in the midst of a big f***ing mess, with a bunch of insults and nothing particularly enticing to comment on. PLEASE, you guys, be constructive in your criticism. Now we're just fighting, and no one is learning anything new. I believe we've covered most of this ground before.

 

I agree, HippieLngstckng, there's really no debate going on anymore! But hey, that's just coming from a smartass.

 

Hey, that was just my smartass commentary on the whole situation!
*grin* I'll wear that label with pride! I've been called MUCH worse...
Believe me! LOL!

 

lol, me too!

 

One thing I have noticed in this thread (particular in Real American's posts), is a connection between the events of September 11th and Saddam and Iraq. Only one person even brought up how incorrect this is, and they did it only in passing to which no one responded. Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with the hijackings, etc. I think anyone would agree that he was a horrible person, and that something needed to be done to help the Iraqi people, but you cannot say that he attacked America.

 

I never said that. Didn't even imply it. The actual war on terrorism started in Afganistan. Then we moved into Iraq to take out a tyrant and hunt for Osama. Now that we have actualy liberated Iraq for the most part, we are searching for individual terrorist cells that support Osama in some way or ones with their own agenda. Where will we go after Iraq? I don't know, what I do know is that Bush called for a world wide war on terrorists and any nation that willingly and knowingly harbors them. You may want peace, but I'm sorry, in this world, you can't have peace with out fighting.

I have done that. I see nothing wrong with calling a person a smart ass when indeed they are being one. No different than talking to my son and telling him to "don't be a smart mouth with me". It is simpy refering to a sarcastic action. The only other name was a draft dodger and something else, I don't remeber. But I explained myself with those as well.

Fact is though. Noone here has shown a good reason to run from the draft if it comes other than they are selfish. I feel if you aren't willing to fight for your country, then you don't belong here. I suggest you pack up now and leave. Head over to canada or Mexico before they come calling for you. Noone is asking you to fight for President Bush or his fealings on situations. Your country would be asking you however, to fight for your freedom. I'm not sure if you went to any of the sites I posted, but the threat is there. I forgot the estimated number of cells here in America, but I think it was something in the 90's. Imagine 90 cities being attacked at once? Then would you fight for your fellow Americans?

Oh, and I thought I would bring this up again because I was reading the posts over again.

I read it. Interesting read. Like I mentioned before, the price we get per gallon hasn't changed realy in the last 8 years. Now, let's imagine that one day we use up all the oil in the world. Well, I'm all for that. Electricity is far more cleaner than oil. Next year the first SuV with the Hybrid engine will be coming out. So what if we get there slower, it will certainly do the world good for us to stop raping the lands for oil. The war on terror isn't because of oil. We didn't take Sadam out of power because of oil.

 

I'm taking a gamble on pissing off a lot of people, but I'm going to say this anyway. I supported the war in Afghanastan. Yes, I did. You know what, that was a bold move Osama bin Laden orchestrated in our own country, under our noses, and we had every right to go and disable the government that trained people in hatred and destruction. We had evidence of their involvement.

However, we cannot go into another country, wage war on it, and tear it apart just because "sources" (ooh, impressive) tell us that Osama MIGHT have gone into Iraq. Is Saddam a vicious bastard worthy of being barbequed on a stage in front of the people he oppressed and tortured? Yeah, probably. But those are the people who should be grilling his ass, not us. If they had really wanted him out of power enough to actually DO anything about it, they would have done it years ago, simply because they outnumber him. And if they allow themselves to be bullied by one little creep with a Napoleon complex, even though sheer numbers are in their favor, that's just plain stupid. We are being used as the workhorse, if anything.

By the way I've got a little riddle for ya'll
"'Sources' think Osama's gone into Iraq, but that's not a reason to wage a war on a country that has nothing to do with our current situation, so we'll just say there's WMD in there so we have a legitimate excuse to go in. And when we do, all of the oil will be ours for the taking... Daddy will be thrilled."
Who am I?

LOL!

 

I completely agree with you. Bin Laden needed to be stopped, I did support the war in Afghanistan. But the war in Iraq is not justified. True we did bring Sadaam Hussein down from power, but he wasn't even involved in 9/11. And we haven't found any WMD yet, so what was the point?

NONE, WHATSOEVER!!!!!!

 

And to those who might bash me because of my previous statement.

Yes I know that I said much earlier that I don't believe in war, and I just stated that I supported the war in Afghanistan. I know some of you like Real American or Republican, will call me a hypocrite sooner or later. But I believe that the Afghanistan War is justifiable, because we had to capture a terrorist, who was responsible for the greatest mass murder ever. But going into Iraq, I think, was a wrong choice on Bush's part.

 

Well MichaelByrd1967, you said it yourself, so I wont say it. I do think it is funny that all of a sudden you support something you have so adamantly fought against here. They have found traces of them, and they did find a small amount. They didn't find some mass amount like they expected, but I still believe it's there. Especialy because we all know for a fact that Sadam tested his weapons on his own people and killed thousands of Iraqi's.

Might I also remind you that fear is a very powerfull weapon. Sure, the Iraqi people outnumbered Sadam. But you take in the fact that Sadam controled an army of over 250,000 soldiers, ass in that those soldiers were armed, plus most of the Iraqi's wern't and what do you have? An evil tyrant that uses fear as his control point.

One more point, HippieLngstckng, we both know that Iraq is a better country now for our invasion and removal of Sadam. You yourself sent me a copy of that email that was sent to your dad. That is the type of thing worth fighting for. Believe it or not, the soldiers over there believe that too. Noone forced these men and women to sign up, they did it on their own with the knowledge that they might one day be called apon to fight.

 

But that's the thing Real American. We are going to be forced to join the armed forces, against our will. Those who have joined up are good people for doing so, but so many people who object the war, myself included, will be FORCED to fight. Even people who file for conscientious objector status, won't be allowed to stay out of it. Those who pass the physical, will be forced to do something. Something that they don't want to do.

So tell me, how do know what the soldiers think about the war in Iraq? Were you involved in the Armed Forces? Did you go to any big battles? My cousin is in the Army as a computer technician, because he wanted to join. But through all of this, he doesn't support Bush or the war in Iraq. So tell me, do you think that many soldiers support Bush or the war at all?

 

I sure did send you a copy, and I hope that you enjoyed it! (By the way, if anyone is interested, I have posted it in a thead entitled "The 'Truth' About The Situation In Iraq?", and it's up for commentary - Nicely now, folks!) Yes, I know that we as Americans will take good care of the Iraqis, it is our nature. I question whether it was our place to go there, that's all. And soldiers are civilians first, and had a choice and a responsibility to disobey orders that are not in the interests of the country as a whole. Fear is THE most powerful weapon, but to conquer fear, one must face their fears, not run and hide behind another person (in this case, country).

God bless our soldiers, I do support them (just not what our gov't has sent them to do, instigate war in another country). If they are called to be soldiers, they should do so for the precept of protecting freedom and peace. But not everyone is called to be a soldier, and the draft does not take that into account. The government doesn't care that I want to be a journalist, or that writing is my forte, not fighting. They would send an unprepared pacifistic woman to her death just to have one more number on the tally. And that's all you are to them, is a number. Forget that this number has a tender heart, a promising future, loves, hates, and a family. They just don't care when it comes down to the bottom line. But of course, that's just what I think.... *GRIN*

 

HippieLngStckng I adore you and I think you are one of the most polite and definitley hippest people on the forums but boy do you grin a lot. Still, I'm glad to see you smile!

 

Well, maybe you didn't intend to, but to me it seems like you are using the emotions stirred by September 11th to bolster your argument for the war in Iraq. I believe that is just as flawed as saying flat out that Iraq was involved in those acts of terrorism.

For example, this has nothing to do with the war against Iraq. We were never attacked by that country in the first place, thus we could not be attacked again. This quote is what suggested the most strongly to me that you were attempting to draw a connection between Iraq and September 11th.

The mention of September 11th seems very out of place in this quote. The rest of the stuff around it is a valid argument against Sadam, but why put in that second sentence?

Ok, I'm done. I just wanted to explain myself and show you why you came off as linking the two unrelated things.

 

All of my posts support the liberation of Iraq and the war on terrorism.

It has everything to do with the war on terrorism.

There are 2 things going on in Iraq, the search for terrorists, and finnishing the liberation of Iraq. I was getting my point accros of everything that is going on. Not combining the 2. Let me explain further:

To show why we needed to get him out....

To show why the war on terror is a good fight.

 

Thanks, L/YP! (That's my homie - LOL! - so don't mess w/ her... *grin*)
I sure do... If ever I can get some pictures on this board, you'll see why... I really do have a loopy grin on my face at all times...

Yippie, we're gonna blow up another country because we suspect (because our mystical, magical, invisible - and probably imaginary - "sources" tell us) you are harboring terrorists! Can you imagine the mess we would have if people could just go into someone else's home and tear it to pieces because they thought the people living there were up to something? There have been plenty of people who I have suspected of stealing from me, doing hard drugs, cheating with my boyfriend, and other sinister activities. What the heck would happen if I could just go busting in their homes, destroy their things, looking for my evidence? It is different when one has evidence beforehand, but everything that our country was going on to justify this invasion of Iraq was mere hearsay.

The war on terror IS INDEED a good fight, but are we going to let this become a witch-hunt? I thought Joe MacCarthy was dead. Let's not use his evil tactics in the name of a good fight. Because evil tactics used in the name of a good fight makes it a bad fight, plain and simple.

 

im sure your smile is beautiful... every smile is gorgeous to see. Even my own cross-between-a-clown-&-a-chipmunk grin. hee hee. I'm glad you grin... it makes me smile myself. Thanks!

 

I have been following this thread, and I have to say, it sure has gotten interesting! Also, Real American, I REALLY don't get you... sorry sir, but sometimes, your statements totally lack reason.

I do, however, have a question for you R.A. If you are so patriotic and so supportive of U.S. "assistance" in foreign affairs, then why, may I ask, did you refrain from enlisting in the military? You obviously didn't want anything to do with the military, but when someone else explains how he/she fears the draft, you don't have a problem jumping on him/her and calling people childish names. Heh, it's easy for you to be supportive of a war that will not involve you or your son. I have a feeling you might feel a little bit different about the whole situation if your son was about 18 years old right now.

Also, Real American, don't try to cover yourself. You DID try to create a false correlation between September 11th and Iraq. You have continued to accuse others of being "uneducated" when you are no more educated than they are. Heh, you warn others of making themselves appear stupid when have done just that for yourself, in my opinion.

The U.S. has, sadly, learned nothing from Vietnam... fools. They should have gone into Afghanistan full force with an all-out offensive and taken out Osama, not Saddam. They should have kept their focus on Afghanistan, and THEN moved, IF NECESSARY, to Iraq.

We screwed up, not to mention the fact that our intelligence agency has actually admitted to screwing up on their information. We've gotten ourselves into something that will, likely, take a long time to get out of. Colin Powell, who actually has military experience unlike Bush, warned the President of the mistakes he was making, but our President is a fool, and he didn't listen.

Ever wonder why Bush's daughters aren't over in Iraq? If Bush thinks this is such a serious problem, why aren't his daughters fighting?

 

Wow, I didn't even finnish reading your post. I just stopped at that and went directly to reply. Apparently you either skipped over some parts, or just forgot them. So, I resay it. I did try to enlist. I took the asfab and scored very high. However, due to my weight, I was turned away. However, my brother Aaron has served, and is serving now. He was actualy apart of everything over seas in Bosnia. Lot's of interesting things I'm not supposed to talk about there. Our good friend's wife just recently got shipped to Iraq. So, before you jump the guns and assume something about a person, please save your self the embarasment and just ask.

Your opinion of my statements is wrong. Re-read them again.

Sadly, they did not find him there. I myself stratigicly speaking probaly would have entered Iran first before Iraq. However, I did see the need for the removal of that tyrant Saddam. So I look at it as killing 2 birds with one stone. Taking out a tyrant and ridding the Iraqi land of terrorist cells.

No actualy, I never wondered about that. I personaly don't think women should be drafted, but then again, imagine the outrage of womens rights activists all over if they were left behind.