Philosophers

It becomes a traditional 'good' vs 'evil' turned in 'god' vs 'the devil'.
There is no logical proof for any, nor do I share the same values about 'good' and 'bad', as to me they are products of our time and age, not universal. The starting statement is already rediculous from a logical stance, but I'd like to think we evolved beyond the black and white of that post. Seems like stereotypical traditional and fundamentalistic religious talk to me.

But as I said before, I do not want to turn this in a religious debate. :mickey:

 

The simple part is that we disagree. Not that any of us is right.

 

I'm not sure what is big or salient about the "if".
I say to Epicurus evil exists because he insists it is so and if I say evil is not real he says it is.

 

Point taken. Epicurus played on the classical stance of 'good' and 'bad'.

 

There is something more insidious than religious debate going on here. When we have a conversation with someone the tendency is for certain words or phraseology to trigger associations of memory and then at that point we start having the same conversation we have had time and again and yeah, no longer interested. No longer hearing anything either except your own past and certainly nothing new from them even though you may have just met.

 

There are other faculties of mind you must employ for a whole, complete understanding.

I get frustrated with people for their ultra restrictive focus on "logic", as if that was all there is.

will, perception, memory, reason, imagination and intuition

http://truthinheart.com/EarlyOberlinCD/CD/Mahan/Mental/Mental_A2.html

I do think this discussion, which could go full on debate, is more about *will* than intellect or logic.

I have the will to converse and discuss, not argue or debate or fight.
I have the will to share freely and engage conversation and discussion for the benefit of all (in other words, take what you can get from it and leave the rest)

You don't have to answer it to me but answer it to yourself: are you clear, in yourself, what your will is .. here in this part of the thread?

I see you've already said you don't want to debate but it's still a valid point (to be clear .. sure .. of your will).

 

Willing or not here I come.
All kinds of expressions make legitimate points like poetry, art, or the juxtaposition of opposites called humor. You do not have to appreciate these things but knowledge is material. Material taking up space, knowledge flows freely into an open mind.

 

I'm aware of some of the barriers to taking in new information (or thoughts, concepts and ideas). That's why I point out (remind) that it takes *time* to process stuff. If people are reactionary, I think it's mostly out of conditioning and habit but more importantly .. I think a lot of people have mental blocks. And I think those blocks are *unprocessed* information. Then there's the too common social abuse factors that can make it near impossible for some people to take any more in. Some people think there's no such thing as information overload. I swear it .. oh yes, there is.

Remember about 10 years ago, "science" was telling people that we only use 3% of our brains? I was NOT happy about that. I know for a fact that I was cranking near 100% of my brain. I was speed reading *unbelievably fast*. And I got to a point where I hit critical mass in my mind. I HAD to do all of that processing work.

Anyway, the 70's called and they want their savant back lol. Just making fun of myself. haha

 

Ofcourse there is more than logic, but to get to the essence of existence I believe logic helps us more than imagination. Sure, I can imagine a teapot orbiting the sun, but does that make it real?
This is where logic comes in and so for the sake of not resorting to ridiculousness I resort to logic.

About the will, what is my will in this thread?
Surely it's like anyone here, share your ideas and perhaps hope that someone agrees with your stance. Or that someone disagrees so you might get a good discussion. Or entertainment.

 

This is the kind of reasoning that strikes me as arrogant and ignorant. You claim to know exactly how the brain works?

 

It could be said there is a type of reacting that acts without purpose other than to defend against perceived threat. The defensive feel insecure otherwise they wouldn't feel the need for defenses. They feel the need to defend because they in fact have no legs to stand on believing something real might be in jeopardy. The only thing in opposition to real is not real and what is not real does not exist. Reality cannot be harmed but our illusions about reality are constantly challenged.

 

Originally Posted by bird_migration
Ofcourse there is more than logic, but to get to the essence of existence I believe logic helps us more than imagination. Sure, I can imagine a teapot orbiting the sun, but does that make it real?
This is where logic comes in and so for the sake of not resorting to ridiculousness I resort to logic.



"teapot orbiting the sun" .. I shake my head no.

You actually didn't demonstrate logic at all, but you did demonstrate ridiculousness. If ridiculousness is your basis for logic .. I see that as having lots of room to grow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bird_migration
About the will, what is my will in this thread?
Surely it's like anyone here, share your ideas and perhaps hope that someone agrees with your stance. Or that someone disagrees so you might get a good discussion. Or entertainment.

So you do will for a debate (agree / disagree). And you will for ridicule. My will is very different from yours.

Trying to fix this thing .. 112 and 113. I edited one out, it wiped them both out. Oh well.

 

Teapots share an orbit with the earth, so yes teapots orbit the sun.

 

You seem to fail to miss the point, maybe I should give your own advice back to you: take some time to think about it.

 

True, teapots on earth do.

 

So believing teapots orbited the sun didn't make it so, what did?

 

Arrogant / ignorant are your value judgments (because of how or what it makes you feel). Trust me: intelligence can be like a sort of crime. And it doesn't go without all sorts of punishments and consequences. In the worst of it, it isn't worth it to me.

I'm not dependent on anybody else to tell me about myself. And I don't need anybody's permission or approval (it's called liberty).

I have a brain and mind just like anybody else does. I know me, and of course I know my own brain. I can know for myself (no college degree required).

It shouldn't offend you, or anybody else, that I'm an intellectual type. I'm not a party type, club type, bar type, athletic type, soccer mom type .. I'm intellectual. Yeah, yeah .. I know :nopity:

You couldn't possibly know what my capacity is but I can know. And I do know. I know what I experienced. I'll never forget that 3% BS. And hell yes, that was total bullshit.

Oh yeah, and I'll also say how the brain and mind I have today are VERY different from years ago. VERY.

 

I don't miss a thing about it. You can ridicule and debate all you want .. insult, too. It'll never make you right / me incorrect. lol

 

I was hinting at Russell's teapot, but my original wording wasn't very precise.
Also, I did nowhere mention that this teapot was on earth. You added that, but rightfully so since we are conditioned to do so and I didn't give precise conditions.

 

And those are your value judgements.

I don't claim I am right and you are wrong. Neither do I think you are right and I am wrong. We can simply not know.