Permit or No Permit-A Poll

Discussion in 'Rainbow Family' started by hippiestead, Dec 13, 2006.

  1. Orsino2

    Orsino2 Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

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    I think a permit would be ridiculous... but, you know, whatever keeps a gathering going. If not, I'd find somewhere where I wouldn't have to worry, but we shouldn't have to be the ones to run.
     
  2. dirtydog

    dirtydog Banned

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    I've never attended a Rainbow Gathering as such. Even a gathering of anarchists has leaders, and it's to the advantage of all concerned that these leaders aren't harassed or charged with violating one bylaw or another. If someone of your group is fined or even jailed for a legal infraction associated with the gathering, the no-permit people, most of them, will be nowhere to be found when it comes time to help him/her out.

    Plus, there is such a thing as public opinion in the larger society, and by attempting to comply with permit requirements and other red tape to the extent possible, the Rainbow Gathering will look better to society in general.
     
  3. unionjack67

    unionjack67 Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

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    I understand there is a LOT of hot debate over the Permit issues. There has been for years and always will be.

    I can see both sides of the issue.

    I think that individual permits would help the FS determine the needs of a particular area when setting up portapotties and law enforcement.

    I know, I know.. Give us a place to shit but don't provide us with peace keepers.

    I have seen the chaos at gatherings. Lets pretend for one minute that A camp doesn't exsist (because those crazies are enough for me to want law enforcement there). Put 2000 strangers in a small area and there ARE going to be problems. I have been to the gatherings and I can say they aren't all about love, peace, and tolerance. There are a multitude of theives who steal what they can to get them by or get them to the next gathering. There are people who seek revenge against the thieves (almost always in a violent manner). Drug deals gone bad creates violence. Oh.. please don't tell me that there are no drugs are that they are discouraged.. I know better.

    Those are just a couple of things to think about.

    There are professionals who come to these gatherings once a year with the family and want a safe place to socialize and relax. The rainbowers have driven many of these families to Burning Man.

    People don't want Law Enforcement there because they are scared of getting busted for breaking the law.

    I would suggest a negoiation with FS and Law Enforcement to allow liberal practices and nudiity (or whatever else) in exchange for cooperation.

    I, as a hippie, understand that I can not get my way because I pretend not to exsist (ie The Rainbow Family). The simple fact is the Rainbow Family is an organization with very loose leadership. There is no other way to explain 20k people showing up in a specific spot to gather once a year (to be the devils advocate).

    I am against any regulations that would prohibit a group from gathering for religious, political, or social reasons. Rainbows are not terrorists or a danger to government. Far from a danger to the government. Everyone is afraid to organize to do anything about the government.

    I am not here to slam the rainbows. I am only here to say that Rainbows need to learn to unite and organize so they can come to a mutually benefical agreement with Law Enforcement and FS.

    I have a thick skin.. so let the flaming begin. It goes without saying that I won't change the mind of the vagrant rainbower any sooner than they will change my mind.
     
  4. hippiestead

    hippiestead Ms.Cinnamon

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    Flaming? folks here try to have honest discussions for the most part.

    You say that you see both sides of the issue but you did not post an equal view of both sides...you seem to have a lot of assumptions that you've made from one point of view; a view that does not seem to be aware of the facts.

    Do you want to know why I don't want leos playing their current games at Gatherings? Because of the harrassment they dish out...watch the look on a 6yr old's face when a gun is shoved into his unarmed daddy's face just because the fs wanted to intimidate a sister & the kid's daddy stood up to say it wasn't right...and this being an event that took place on-site at a previous Gathering, far from A-camp & on a road that the fs had agreed to stop driving on if the hippies would stop driving on it (& the hippies hadn't driven on it for several days when these un-uniformed leos harrassed the sister). I'm sorry but I take great offense to your comments about fearful law breakers and A-campers....because I don't know of any A-camper who would pull a gun on an unarmed person in front of child...and the only ones breaking the law at time of said incident were the leos who refused to identify their names & badge numbers even after they aimed their guns.

    Cooperation...well some folks keep trying for those treaties with the leos...know what happened with other tribes who've signed treaties? Same thing happens with Rainbow, the leos bend or break the treaties. This year we had some treaty agreements, there was supposed to be cooperation..and there was some headway made...the fs didn't issue tickets for an illegal Gathering BUT they did drive into the site and harrass people on trumped up crap. I won't get into details since these stories aren't mine to tell. All I can say is that the Rainbows are trying...please try to do your homework before you assume how things are.

    Oh & excuse me...vagrant rainbower? please allow me to decorate your flame-throwing fingers with flowers because that comment was just rude & intented to start a flame. Please feel free to have a Beautiful Day if you wish to.
     
  5. unionjack67

    unionjack67 Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

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    There was really no sense in stating the reasons AGAINST the permits. Very few of the many arguments hold any water.

    I haven't seen police harrassment at any gathering that was not warranted (outside of nudity).

    I do agree that sometimes cops do odd things in the attempt to "catch" people. I spent 50 days in the Ocala Flordia County Jail for simply not having possession of my registration on my vehicle. Any hippie who has been to Marion County Jail knows it isn't the best place in the state.

    As far as Vagrant Rainbows and A-Camp People.... If you take offense to that you are in denial. Those are the two biggest groups of moochers and trouble makes in the Rainbow Tribe.

    The law provides basic rights provided you know how to work in a way that the government and system work. The Government loves paperwork. There is a lot of jumping through hoops for even the basic of things.

    A gathering of 20k people requires a lot of things that Rainbows don't understand. Dumpsters, Porta Potties, Security, Evironmental Clean Up (which is never fully done by "The Clean Up Crew".

    Someone has to pay for all of this and if the government has to flip the bill for it, it no longer becomes a right but a priviledge.

    A Dollar fee for a permit would cover all those costs and make the permit provisions legal and binding.

    I am completely neutral on the permit issue. I would get one if it was required, but I would not FORCE anyone to get one nor would I shun them for not getting one. I am only stating my opinon on the issue. :)
     
  6. SafetyPin

    SafetyPin Banned

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    "no one said the poll had actual value, but it is interesting to see where folks stand on the issue..."

    Seeing where folks stand on issues "is" valuable!
     
  7. unionjack67

    unionjack67 Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

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    I think the poll (in this cause) is very close to how your "average" Rainbow feels.

    Fortunately we live in a country that allows for some form of free speech. From all of those that I have talked to in the last 8 years, the permit issue leans heavily AGAINST.

    There is nothing against that opinion so long as neither side FORCES their Opinion. Amongst the rainbows it seems like a taboo issue to discuss outside of forums.
     
  8. hippiestead

    hippiestead Ms.Cinnamon

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    UnionJack67
    It's obvious that your view of Rainbow is very different than mine. I view Rainbow from a healing stand-point because I have seen so many folks grow & heal because they found Rainbow. Rainbow is a Spiritual thing for me & I try to live it all year long. A-camp & other road dogs need the healing that can happen through Rainbow...plus they get all the hard work taken care of before the professionals ever get there...clearing the trails & laying the groundwork...oh yeah, you want porta-potties & security... again, differing views of what Rainbow 'is', IMO porta-potties & security are for festivals & I don't believe Rainbow to be a festival.

    On the permit issue by itself...individuals come to Quartzite every winter & camp in a huge group on BLM land...and they aren't required to get a group permit. Individual 14-day permits are issued. If the fs/leos gave the same amount of respect to Rainbow that they do in Quartzite, there wouldn't be a permit issue.
     
  9. MattInVegas

    MattInVegas John Denver Mega-Fan

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    When I used to go out I would always go 'Permit'. Yeah, I'd still pay the fees. They go to pay for I dunno. shit like Fire crews and equipment, Rangers to police the area, clean-up crews. As long as it really gets there.
     
  10. luvione

    luvione Member

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    Greetings ya'll,
    Naturally I dont beleave we should have to sighn permits. Someone mentioned the indian treatys,, sighning a permit is the same thing. Those cocksuckers were out of hand too many times! There are many reasons I am against permits, all political. And thats just my lil tiny opinion.

    Our Mother Cries with every insult we allow the pigs to make upon her, rape for the all mighty buck.
    Lovin To All earth spirits,
    Luvione
     
  11. unionjack67

    unionjack67 Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

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    I don't understand what your post is saying... I get that you are against the permits, but other than that.... It is a rambling mess. Rainbow CHILDREN with Bullets they were trying to barter or trade? Sick kids at the gathering (that is par)? Rainbows that aren't rainbow?

    Maybe I need to get baked for this to make sense.
     
  12. hippiehillbilly

    hippiehillbilly the old asshole

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    i think union jack has this place confused with AGR.[​IMG]
     
  13. luvione

    luvione Member

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    Thankyou! I did apoligize for my momentary freak out!

    Love to all earth spirits, here & beyond,,****
     
  14. unionjack67

    unionjack67 Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

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    AGR? Alt.Gathering.Rainbow? If that is what you are talking about, I stopped going there a long time ago. No intelligent life. Matter of fact all the threads, in the time I visited, were flames between a thief and his accuser (went on for months), Permit and non-permit rehashing, and not much else.

    How am I confusing Hip with AGR?

    I came here to find intelligent life. So far I have. Just because I don't agree with someone doesn't make thier point insignificant.

    Debate is good so long as they are devoid of insults and personal attacks. That is what AGR was solely about from my viewpoint.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. hippiestead

    hippiestead Ms.Cinnamon

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    Well Matt, if it were a matter of a fee, that too could be worked out...the fs doesn't want a fee for the permit, what they want is one person to claim the be the leader of Rainbow but since we don't have leaders. This big stand off has stemmed out of the fact the Rainbow is something that the government cannot understand...the permit regulation only came into play in 1995/1996
     
  16. hippiestead

    hippiestead Ms.Cinnamon

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    It could be that 'vagrants' comment...which I concidered to be a shooting flame since I was one of those 'vagrants' until we bought land to park our bus on. And let me tell ya bro, me'n'my old man don't drink & we don't do drugs but we sacrificed a month out of every year to go out in the woods & build a kitchen (bringing 75% or more of the food needed to run the kitchen) just to have people like you diss our clan (and I will always consider A-camp to by my kin...especially since our kitchen crew is made up entirely of A-campers who spend much of their month at Rainbow sober!!!!)

    I don't mind having an intelligent conversation with anyone & I don't mind when folks have differing opinions from mine...but bro, you dissed A-camp Family & many here on HipForums respect A-camp for the good that they do & most of us are not shy about telling A-camp when they are screwing up, face-to-face & not on an internet forum.
     
  17. luvione

    luvione Member

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    Again, thankyou, Cinnamon,,,, I agree, much more eloquant than I,LOL,,

    Love, Peace & Happpiness,,,,
     
  18. unionjack67

    unionjack67 Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

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    SOBER A CAMP? LOL... Then they weren't really A camp. Someone drinking a beer doesn't constitute being labeled A-Camp.

    A Camp and Vagrants aren't people like you who have something through hard work (vagrants and A campers are scared of anything resembling work). A Camp and Vagrants are people who spange everyone who looks like they might have a quarter and will never have anything in life. Not my place to tell you who to have as friends, but you are playing with a lit stick of dynamite when you think someone in A camp is your friend.

    You obviously did good for yourself. That is FAR from the norm for those type of losers.
     
  19. unionjack67

    unionjack67 Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

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    That is part of the problem on the government's side. They need to not approach it from the angle of an event with promoters and organizers.

    They need to go for individual permits. Past experience with the gatherings gives them a very good indication of how many people are going to show up and what resources are needed to deal with it.

    That is the fault of the narrow minds in our government (typical).
     
  20. luvione

    luvione Member

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    Hey UNIONJACK (what kind of hippie name is that?) ya was born in 67,, So UNIONJACK, folks do quit drinkin and give back to the community. yadda yadda yadda
     

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