Permit or No Permit-A Poll

since it doesn't matter , let's be peacefully humble . no war . we know how to make a circle and have considerably more power than anyone can really oppose . we trust in that ?

 

i'm sorry. i guess i'm not understanding you. what doesn't matter? the signing of a permit? it does matter quite a lot to some individuals and i'm not ready to discount their concerns just because their concerns are inconvenient to nice nice vibes.

but then again ... i suppose you're right. it doesn't really matter. those who object to the permit will just have to gather elsewhere. tho the basic of dynamics of the annual Rainbow Gathering changes when a permit is signed since by attending you automaticly become a legally bound member of the group designated in the permit. at that point it's no longer a free assembly of individuals.

has anyone edited the universal Rainbow invitation to reflect the change yet?

 

.
if a permit is ...
we gather
if a permit is not ....
we gather

freely sofree
and all ways

so when the fs challenges our choice of a site - we council and decide our family action for that particular scene in that moment . this we do with spirit , with a mind to natural Oneness - the land , the life that is there , our togetherness .

unlike the govt our decisions are not codified and institutionalized . the mental-problem of a standardized permit has been altogether theirs .

we are ever so wild as can be .
nothing has changed ,
tis always teatime .

 

while i totally agree and honor the sentiment, sentiment changes nothing in a legally binding contract (signed by someone on my behalf without my consent). I don't have a problem with rainbows working with the FS in choosing a environmentally suitable site. my problem is with forced membership in a group and being under the edicts of a license while engaging in an actvity that is already my "God" given and Constitutional right.

while you may still be able to feel "wild" while in the government's ink and paper cage and nothing has changed for you, the whole nature of the Rainbow Gatherings has changed for many folks. but it's okay. it doesn't matter. if a permit is signed (as likely will be) for the official annual Rainbow Gathering I'll just have to gather with free individuals elsewhere. maybe in Arkansas. I hear it's a cool little alternative and the tea simmers nicely there too. I rebel against convention and go where The Spirit needs no permission to gather and express The Self. woooohoooo!!!

PS. have an excellent time where ever you go.

 

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not so bound by 'feelings' , i'll go as i please . the sentimentality is all yours even tho you frame it legalistically notsofree .

the rule of law is a fiction .

we are not entitled to gather . ever .
we do it by strength of spirit and heart
and get along in peace by the good gift
we make to all .

.

 

of course you go as you please. my apologies if my post seemed to imply otherwise to you.

i'm speaking for myself only, i'd never presume to speak for you (much less sign legal paperwork on your behalf) without your consent.

and i do indeed feel i am entitled to gather with those i care for without government interference or need for government permission. i guess we just see things differently. peace.

PS. i don't know what "tikoo" means so i won't be mocking your name.

 

in essence sofree is oneness ,

notsofree is just a word

tikoo is clouds talking

 

As a Canadian let me just say this about permits. I used to visit the national parks on a regular basis, but now it's $89 for a vehicle permit, $20 to camp front country, $8 to camp back country (per night), probably about $4 for a permit to wipe your ass. So what I do is, avoid national parks. There are more park pigs than there are people like me, so it seems, so I just say, fuck it, sure all the big mountains are in the parks, but there are plenty of medium sized mountains (with forests, streams, mosquitoes, bears, women, et cetera) and I can have just as good a time there without being taxed to death by park pigs. What I'd like to see is a park-in at Banff park east gate on highway 1, with ten people willing to donate beater cars to shutting down the highway to protest user fees.

But then, this probably isn't Rainbow Family stuff anyway, or is it?

 

well, tho i haven't been to any of the alternative July 4th gatherings I get the impression that what you're suggesting is being experimented. I hear rumors that folks are planning gathering on BLM lands instead of in National Forests because for unexplained reasons a group use permit is not required on BLM land.

anti-permit refugees are gonna gather somewhere.


as for a protest. naw ... The Rainbow doesn't do that kind of thing. some individual rainbows do tho.

 

dirtydog, just to clarify, Gatherings are not held in National Parks, they're held in national forests, which is quite different down here. National Parks are very crowded, closely monitored, and crawling with rangers. They're fun to visit, but aren't truly wilderness anymore, and you have to pay to get in. The national forest land that Gatherings are held on are usually just open wilderness and are set aside as protected forest land owned by the public. Because we are the public and we should have access to public lands, we gather there. There is a LOT of national forest land, much of it is very rural and untouched, and that's why we choose to have Gatherings there. A Gathering at a National Park would be insane, and I don't think it would happen because Parks have so many rules and restrictions...

Just wanted to clarify that there's a difference between National Parks and the public national forests where the Gatherings are held... carry on...

 

Wow...this is sooo close 51% no permit but only 7 outta 45 are actually in favor of a Family permit being signed.

 

the poll has zero value

 

ho!

 

no one said the poll had actual value, but it is interesting to see where folks stand on the issue...I ran a similar verbal poll back in '96 and there was a strong opposition to permits...maybe in 10 yrs I'll run another permit poll to see how more years of LEO hassles affect folks opinions

C

 

it taint like the authoritarian's govt doesn't need some opposition . they seem to love it . what i think is that they can go starve to death in a corner from uselessness .

i do not respond to the poll . it was designed to encourage the emotive 'no permit' response , eh ?

 

Indeed. For example, what set responses might one expect if the question was phrased "Is it worth putting a gathering in a minimal state of compliance with the letter of the law in order to keep Family from being abused by armed and dangerous Federal Thugs?", and an answer phrased "NO WAY! Chalenging gun toting Federal Thugs to a video camera fight is a fun game, and does more to preserve the spirit of a peace and healing gathering than signing some dumb ol' permit!"

 

It wasn't my intention to encourage any particular response...please remember that we haven't made it home since 2000 and the gun toting wasn't nearly as aggressive then. there are a lot of folks who used to think that not signing a permit was important who have changed their minds after the increased harrassment. There are other people who still think it's important not to sign a permit. For me, I wish permits weren't getting signed but after studying the issue and finding out that permits had been signed back in the 70's, I'm not sure why anyone ever claimed that we were Gathering without permits to begin with. When it comes to the safety of Family, if I really felt that signing a permit would end a fair amount of the harrassment, then maybe I could get behind it, but I don't think that signing a permit changes the harrassment status. On the other side of all this, I don't think that I would block a council decision to sign a permit either...

Now if y'all know of a way to add some other responses, then let me know.

 

its really a cach 22, ur damned if u do, ur damned if u dont.

 

didn't mean to imply that I thought it was deliberate.

 

Didn't think ya did Turnup...just thought other folks should know that there wasn't any deliberate leading going on.

Now back to the issue, which is permits & how folks feel about them. Does anyone have any feedback about Gatherings where permits were signed...I'm not even sure which ones have had permits or not...
C