Pedophiles: Sick or Evil?

My friend Libertine, I'm sorry for kicking over the trash cans back there. I guess I need to quit reading each and every post in the thread before I reply. The ol' "bullet in the head" and then the "7-10 year old" just really hit me.

 

I completely understand that. We all get riled up sometimes.

 

Libertine, I know this is somewhat off-topic, but I just have to say it. When I was a young man, I got picked on a lot. I got a lot of the "scumbag tree hugger" thrown at me. I used to fight back...physically. I met a brilliant man that was a martial arts instructor. He taught me that violence stems from a lack of forethought, a lack of patience. He showed me that caring is noble, and effective when tempered by mental discipline and direction. Violence teaches nothing per se, because it allows us to regress to our "base" instincts-our fight or flight responses. If we fail to act from a conscious understanding of our most inspired options, then WE regress to a position no higher than that which we choose to punish. If we treat those who follow their "id" with actions delegated by "our id", we deny ourselves the opportunity to evolve. We fail those who follow us, by not giving a foundation of sensibility to build from.

 

That sounds like a philosophy that I embrace. I have been trained in BJJ, but I would only use it in emergency situations and ONLY to put out a fire (so to speak).

I completely agree with your instructor's views.

 

sorry, still off-topic.
I studied Ju-jitsu then Aikido. I think the idea is probably inspired by Ueshiba

To quote the Omoto-ryo (one of OSensei's major influences and one of the pillars of Aikido)
"Mankind's role is to fulfill his heaven-sent purpose through a sincere heart that is in harmony with all creation and loves all things"
I know, I'm still working on the harmony part.

Best wishes to you and yours. w_o

 

I would like to hear more progressive views on this subject.

 

"No man can fall any lower than the lowest that is within each and every one of you, just as no saint can climb any higher than the highest that is in you also"-Kahlil Gibran.

...For Gods sake, HELP these poor, confused souls

 

just had to say- this topic makes me think of martin luther kind and gandhi. good guys.

 

It is a sad state of affairs for sure.

There has to be something innately screwed for this to be the case. But, this is one of those odd cases where seldom do these people seek help--due to being demonized before they commit a crime.

However, once the crime has been committed there has to be restitution.

 

first off, only read the first page and the 9th. so I apologize if i'm reiterating what someone else has said

I think some are sick
and some are evil

But I don't think we have a way of rehabilitating them right now. I really don't. I really do believe in locking them up and throwing away the key. I mean, dont' treat them as subhuman but they shouldn't be let out where they can hurt children again. The sheer amount of damage they can do to one person is incredible. I've heard (unsubstantiated, second hand info here) that hte average pedo has assaulted nearly a hundred children before he's caught. While htat's not necessarily true, it's terrifying how much people get away with, how much has to happen before they're caught

Keep them away from children. Whatever it takes, keep them away until we can fuckin rewrite their brains to stop them from having those desires.

 

I think that they should be quarantined in areas, but I don't believe the human zoo works in the long run. It's just a band aid. Always has been.

I highly doubt that the average pedophile assaults a hundred children. Not all pedophiles have acted upon their desires. And some can't seek help because it is such a touchy issue that most psychiatrists even resort to their innate emotions to retort.

Most molestation cases don't involve sexual intercourse or sodomy or any penetration either. Most are "touching" improperly. Being in my position (where I work) I've seen guys (over 18) sentenced to 15 years or more for the rubbing of a girl's ass. That's not helping matters at all. As much damage as this causes, I don't think that it is more damaging than say, murder or rape. Yet those desires get treated differently (well, murder anyway). Sexuality (in minors) is a major issue in America. Not so much in other cultures.

I feel that we need to stop dicking around in America and wake up to reality. Pedophilia is a mental disorder that needs to be looked into properly and dealt with on that basis. Molestation needs to be dealt with on a different basis. What that is would be a good subject for discussion as well, but this is mainly about pedophilia itself.

Good posts, btw.

 

Here is some interesting information I found regarding this subject:

• The APA (American Psychological Association) refers to pedophilia as a mental disorder and separates it from the actuality of an event of molestation.

• It is estimated that only 2 to 10 percent of child sexual abuse perpetrators meet the regular criteria for pedophilia. (Kinsey-Report, Lautmann, Brongersma, Groth).

• A perpetrator of child sexual abuse is, despite all medical definitions, commonly assumed to be a pedophile, and referred to as such; however, there may be other motivations for the crime (such as stress, marital problems, or the unavailability of an adult partner), much as adult rape can have non-sexual reasons . Thus, child sexual abuse alone may or may not be an indicator that its perpetrator is a pedophile; most perpetrators of it are in fact not primarily interested in children.

• Situational offenders tend to offend at times of stress; have a later onset of offending; have fewer, often familial victims; and have a general preference for adult partners. Pedophilic offenders, however, often start offending at an early age; often have a large number of victims who are frequently extra-familiar; are more appetitively driven to offend; and have values or beliefs that strongly support an offense lifestyle.

• Contrary to popular belief, Dr. Fred Berlin, believe pedophilia can "indeed be successfully treated," if only the medical community would give it more attention. And gives his theories in "Treatments to Change Sexual Orientation," American Journal of Psychiatry, Vol 157.

• An attraction towards illustrated and fictional "lolicon" (regarding the lolita complex) characters is frequently accused of being similar to or a form of pedophilia, particularly by Westerners. Defenders of such material say that it does not adversely affect children, and in some cases may help to relieve the sexual tension of actual pedophiles; opponents often say that the existence of fictional material encourages the viewing of children as sex objects or can incite actual sexual abuse. However, there is no evidence to support these claims. Despite the fact that most lolicon artwork is produced in Japan, there is no evidence that it has caused an increase of violent crimes against children and teens. The number of reported incidents of crime against children in Japan, as well as violent crime in general, is well below that of most other developed countries.

THOUGHTS? REBUTTALS?

 

It sounds like, once the code has been cracked that weakens a persons ability to hold in these urges, unlocking the codes for all other types of deviants should be relatively easy, for the scientific profesion at least..

Perhaps the fact that paedophilia is considered one of the most heinous crimes of unhuman nature makes it a good place to start, perhaps not.. It's interesting that Government bodies don't want to be seen to be too close to this issue, and I wonder if a different devience would yeild the same results.. Probably not..

So why are we so afraid to poke around the minds of paedophiles?

Libertine, as fascinated and intrigued as I am with these studies, they are clearly out of my expertise. And, apart from wanting to suggest that MOST crimes are committed durint mental stress, I agree with and understand all those points.

 

I have always been fascinated by taboo subjects. Not merely sexual ones, but along all lines. Because I am fascinated by the human mind.

I don't deify science, but I put a hell of a lot of stock in it. Both physiological and psychological. Also, I am a philosophy major as well.

Taboo subjects seem to attract many popular myths as well and when you do attack these subjects, most people are so paralyzed by shock that you are labeled a madman.

The Black/White, Good/Evil world is not my world, really. I see things from the perspective of healthy/unhealthy, beneficial/harmful and situational/circumstantial. This also is a taboo!

Pedophilia is one the most taboo subjects because it is not given enough attention in the proper field of study. Whereas motivations of murder and other crimes are mainstream, the mind of the pedophile is considered almost so taboo that even psychologists won't dare touch it.

And for the sake of humanity as a whole, it NEEDS to be put under the scope of the psychological sciences. This retardation of progress by politicians and the propaganda of ignorance thrown up on the public needs to be addressed and ended. Pedophilia is not a "demon", it is a disorder and it needs to be treated as bad as other disorders in order to stamp out the problem at the ROOT and not just pruning and trimming the branches all the time. Pedophilia is not molestation, it is a psychological issue not a legal one. Molestation is the legal issue, because it is an action. Molestation and Pedophilia are not the same either (although they are viewed as such by the general public). And only 2-10% of molestation cases involved genuine pedophiles.

In the long run it will costs taxpayers a lot less and bring more civilized culture to our world to treat this and other issues accordingly instead of resorting to medieval barbarism repeatedly.

 

Society sells all the ingredients you need to make child sex abuse and paedophilia possible through dubious advertising techniques.. In basic terms this, I believe establisihing the link between the two in dialogue with sufferers would make a good starting place..

And yes, "lolicon" is just one of those ingredients, but on the flipside of the coin in Japan is a different ethos where children are concerned..

 

Kids must be protected from the sexual preditory nature of men.I say men because I believe this to be primarily a male problem.

 

You are merely stating the obvious, but what do you offer to further the conservation? Give us your thoughts and theories.

 

Of course we're in full agreement with you...

On both points... Perhaps if we find out why it's a predominantly male problem, we go some way to understanding it..

 

Indeed. I think that American culture has, through advertising and popular entertainment, promoted pedophilia by promoting underage girls as sex objects. Yet, sternly turns a deaf ear and blind eye to the problem, offers nothing but an iron fist for an answer, and takes no responsibility.

 

You partly answered my last comment, but I can't help feel that early in mankind's existence, it actually served some purpose.. Lifespans were shorter.. etc etc....