Paradise vs heaven vs hell

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by Sign Related, Jan 21, 2005.

  1. Sign Related

    Sign Related The Don Killuminati

    To whomever it concerns: Answer me honestly on these:

    1. The difference between the
    2. Which two of the three would be the least pleasant, in your opinion, and why come?
    3. If you follow a God and/or a religion, which one of the three is the best that that God you follow (or that religion you follow) has in store for you?
    4. Do you think you'll be as a slave in any of the three?

    5. Just to you that believe you're going into heaven: If you entered into heaven, do you think you'll always feel threatened that you could always enter into hell?
  2. Amanda N

    Amanda N Member

    Surely, from a christian point of view, paradise and heaven are diffrent names for the same thing?

    Personally, seeing as I don't believe in god, or the devil, I don't believe in heaven or hell...
  3. TrippinBTM

    TrippinBTM Ramblin' Man

    Just personal opinion:

    Heaven is the sitting around worshipping god, singing praises for eternity, or just gazing upon god in awe, supposedly the highest pleasure. Hell is eternal pain, or conversely seperation from god forever, the worst torment.

    Heaven and hell would be equally horrible, being about as boring as anything could be. Everything is laid out for eternity, there's nothing new to learn or experience. Whether it's eternal pain, or eternal pleasure, you'd get bored after a very short time. Neither makes much sense anyways, and can't exist really. What is pleasure without pain to define it? It's nonsense, and so is the idea that we could ever be seperate from god. But I don't see god as a man in the sky watching us, or even as a being at all, given my pantheist-like outlook.

    Paradise is basically what we have now, the union of the dualities. The passion of it all, learning, experiencing...the interaction of the positive and negetive, yang and yin. Heaven and Hell are our conceptual extremes of experience, pleasure and pain. To think of them as an afterlife is no more than an ego trip.
  4. Burbot

    Burbot Dig my burdei

    Hell, is non-existent in my mind, there is no Hell only re0birth to make it through another psyical life of suffering until we "get the point" so to speak...

    Heaven would be oneness with God as an energy force...nothign psyical, nothing but our souls enery made one with Gods [cause our souls are just bits of God]
  5. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    Whats the difference between heaven and paradise?
  6. thumontico

    thumontico Member

    If the meaning of life is to live a righteous existence (in the view of God) and there by enter Heaven, what is the meaning or goal of life in Heaven?

    To worship God? I would much rather prefer nonexistence over an existence in which I have to worship some Egotistical supreme power.

    To bask in eternal joy? As TrippinBTM accurately noted, joy cannot exist without contrast. God is all-good and heaven is all-good, therefore joy cannot exist in heaven.

    Heaven must be a bland emotionless state-- I would prefer nonexistence.

    Paradise, being less strictly defined, could be what the Religious desire Heaven to be: Bliss.

    Hell is a scare tactic. The Christian church captilized on the concept, mainly around the 'Dark Ages', to increase attendence and subsequently pad the wallets of the church officials.
  7. mynameiskc

    mynameiskc way to go noogs!

    1. The difference between the heaven/paradise (same thing) existing in pure love and safety of god, where we "glory in the works of our hands." essentially the same as here, minus the agony. hell is the death of the spirit, a ceasing of existance.
    2. Which two of the three would be the least pleasant, in your opinion, and why come? hell, because i see no reason to cease to exist if i can continue to live in glory and love, continuing my education for all time
    3. If you follow a God and/or a religion, which one of the three is the best that that God you follow (or that religion you follow) has in store for you? an ecstasy of spiritual completion.
    4. Do you think you'll be as a slave in any of the three? no.
    5. Just to you that believe you're going into heaven: If you entered into heaven, do you think you'll always feel threatened that you could always enter into hell? no. hell isn't a place, it's a concept of final death and seperation from god.
  8. Kharakov

    Kharakov ShadowSpawn

    Joy cannot exist without contrast? That's like saying existence cannot exist without nonexistence (which does not exist, therefore existence cannot exist).

    If I always felt the same way, liked it, and called the way I felt joy, Guess what? It would be joy.

    I call heaven the carrot on a stick that motivates all life (maybe it's the thought of eternal, awesome orgasms), and hell is the whip. The thing is, nothing every reaches the carrot, you must always chase it (like the old time monks would say "Life is an eternal journey towards God"), and sometimes, if you stop chasing it, you feel the whip of eternal despair (because you have given up hope of reaching the carrot you will never reach).

    The idea is to except life as it is, not to try and change it, not to try and enjoy it, give up both the carrot and the despair of not reaching the carrot. However, there is always a carrot hanging just out of reach, including the carrot of not pursuing any carrots....
  9. mynameiskc

    mynameiskc way to go noogs!

    and i'm sure you have quite a bit of faith in your ... idea?
  10. Amanda N

    Amanda N Member

    I kind of agree with what was said, only not quite the same way..

    I believe that joy can exist without contrast... the only diffrence is that without contrast, you won't resognise the joy...

    It's like siting in a hot bath... when you first get in, you can feel the heat... but after a while, your body gets used to the heat, and before you know it, you can't feel the heat anymore.

    But if you get out of the hot bath, and get into a cold bath... it's very very cold, in fact it feels far far colder than it actully is because you've got used to the hot bath.

    And again, it's the same if you then return to the hot bath... once again, it feels hot again...

    and it's the same with "heaven" - if heaven truly is nothing but pure joy... how will these people know it's joy?
  11. Kharakov

    Kharakov ShadowSpawn

    Idea's come and go. Some stand up to closer scrutiny than others. That is why some are better than others. Does this idea stand up to your scrutiny?
  12. TrippinBTM

    TrippinBTM Ramblin' Man

    "Nonexistance," while being next to impossible to talk about, does exist in a sense. It's the absence of existance, like darkness is the absence of light. It isn't a thing in itself, but the absence of a thing (the absence of ALL things, actually). If there wasn't an absence of light (dark) everything would be bathed in pure light. If there were no empty space (absence of matter) then there'd be a solid block of matter. Likewise for existance, it depends on nonexistance.
  13. Kharakov

    Kharakov ShadowSpawn

    It seems to me that existence does not depend on nonexistence. Nonexistence is not only the absense of existence, it is the nothing that cannot even be thought of for the thought of it would not exist (for it doesn't exist). Nonexistence does not exist except in the sense of mental contrast to the real world existence of an object. That is, the idea of an object is compared to reality, and if the idea is different from reality, it is said that the object does not exist.

    Back to Joy. I agree that other emotions exist. I simply say that if Joy was the only emotion ever felt, it would still exist.

    Interestingly enough, if you look up the word Joy on, you get several definitions, one of which is: 2:a state of happiness or felicity : [size=-1]BLISS[/size], which is what I am refering too. If you then look up the word bliss, you get this definition:
    1 : complete happiness
    2 : [size=-1]PARADISE[/size], [size=-1]HEAVEN[/size]

    Gotta go drive.... driving is bliss, except in Jersey when the concrete buckles.
  14. HuckFinn

    HuckFinn Senior Member

    I believe the Bible describes "heaven" as a spiritual realm where God and his angels abide. The eternal destiny of God's people is a resurrected body in paradise, the created order restored to perfect communion with God.
  15. TrippinBTM

    TrippinBTM Ramblin' Man

    But it would mean nothing, and would be the same feeling if joy DIDN'T exist. We'd have no measure of what joy is, if we didn't know it in comparison to sorrow. It might as well not exist at all.
  16. Amanda N

    Amanda N Member

    Exactly.. as I've demonstrated here:
  17. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

    According to Hindu philosophy, there is joy which is a relative thing, and as you rightly say is balanced by it's opposite of sorrow.
    But also, the Absolute is said to be Being-Bliss-Awareness, Sat-cit-ananda. The word 'ananda' means bliss. This is said to be an absolute bliss, complete in itself. Th eternal and un-alterable bliss of God. It is described as existing at a level transcending all relative existence, and all dualistic pairs of opposites such as joy/sorrow etc.
  18. Kharakov

    Kharakov ShadowSpawn

    Are you saying that the flavor vanilla might as well not exist if all food tasted like it? Maybe we wouldn't differentiate between different flavors if vanilla was the only taste, but the taste would still exist. Vanilla being tasted does not require that any other flavor exist, it would still be the experience of tasting vanilla.

    Feeling joy being felt does not require that we feel another emotion, all it requires is that we feel joy. To say that feeling joy all the time would be the same as joy not existing is incorrect: feeling joy=joy exists. Otherwise you would not be feeling it, would you? One thing that would happen if there was only one feeling is this: we would not have many names to differentiate feelings, because there would only be one feeling.

    There can be only one!

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