I'm sorry, which criteria exactly? If a person is intersex, I'd still think of them as whichever gender they wanted me to, whether that's male, female, or some sort of "other" of their own description. No. Which is why the current treatment of intersex infants is not satisfactory... It reminds me of circumcision of infant males -- both can lead to some issues later on, especially a feeling of having been forced into something before being able to choose. Anyway, I think we actually agree on just about everything. I think it's probably too much of a generalization to say "straights are just afraid"; I'd bet that's not the case for *every* hetero out there. As for the rest, though, makes sense to me.
I mean the criteria that most of the general public/population have for assigning gender. I think it is safe to say that most people think it's as simple as "penis and testicles at birth =male", and "vagina at birth =female". It is not as simple as that, but it is fair to say that the vast majority of people see it like that. The fact that babies are assigned a gender purely on the basis of their outer sex anatomy is the ultimate proof of this. I think the current treatment of intersex babies (at least intersex conditions which are immediately visible, not all are) is really a damning verdict on society's strict gender binary system. Its like any deviation of the simple gender assignment I described above is deemed unacceptable, and that the child's best interests are being met by removing an aspect of their genitalia at birth. Of course, this is not always the case, and children born like that should be allowed to make a choice on what gender they are, once they are old enough to express that. I myself, know the pain of this situation only too well... I didnt mean "all straights", but certainly an overwhelming proportion of straights, men in particular, have a fear of being seen as anything that could be interpreted as "gay". Even on this forum, I have seen several men asking if being attracted to a transwoman makes them gay. And Im sure a few straight guys have been attracted to a trans/intersex woman without realising it. The scenario I mentioned earlier, is a classic example of that. A guy falls for a girl, realises she either has, or at some point has had male genitals, and finishes with her purely for that reason. Why is that? The fear of being seen as gay would seem to be only logical explanation for that, even though he fell for her as a woman, in her appearance, and her personality. I was merely addressing the point in a previous post that insinuated that a person falling for (In a romantic sense) a trans/intersex person can't be straight. I was merely correcting that assumption, and saying that it is quite possible for a straight person to be romantically attracted to those kinds of people, even if it is unknowingly.
I was introduced to the term pansexual a few months ago. It is also called "omnisexual". More so than being bisexual, I feel I am pansexual: it isn't the gender of the individual I fall in love with, it's the person inside the physical body; the soul, the person's essence. If they would make a good partner, I could care less about their sex organs.
I don't give two shits if people think I'm mentally ill. I like who I like, and no one can possibly change that.
Some people have the unique personality to enjoy sex with whomever they are attracted to. Without worrying about it! Forget gender, that gets you into bisexuality. The people I am referring to don't think in terms of gender. They think in terms of shared pleasure. Gay, straight, trans, old, young, pretty, ugly, etc. they are open to the possibility of giving and receiving sexual pleasure with any person who at the time is attractive. I have always thought of this as pansexual. Not limited to gender issues; freely able to meet any and all; no hangups about sex at all. Sounds neat, but I'm too syereotypical (mores the pity!) As for CoCo, I feel sorry for the poor soul. Can you magine living with that much hate, that much uncontrolled venom. AND, I'll bet he's had his dick in some pretty filthy pussies - worse than m/f asses!
i am very open to both males and females, and i know i could love both. but i don't know about the rest of pansexuality, i'm not sure i would be that open. so i'm just bisexual?o.o
All this "love the person, not the gender/sex" stuff... I highly doubt there's anyone gay or straight who would agree that they don't love the person they're in love with.
Yes, but a straight/gay person sees themselves as people who are only capable of being in love with people who have a specific set of sexual organs. So the sex organs of the person does matter to straight and gay people. It is arguable whether there is any real difference between pansexual and bisexual people though.
Still, most gay and straight people love the "person" not the "sex organs", even if the wrong organs are a deal-breaker.
I would disagree, when I identified as gay I loved my boyfriend who happened to be a pre-op trans guy. I was only really attracted to guys at the time but he had a vagina. I was attracted to him not his genitals and could love him for him nevermind the organs he was assinged at birth.
I phrased my post wrong. Though for a lot of people, that post would still stand. What I actually meant was, straights and gays could only fall in love with one specific gender. Some people would call you "pansexual" for the fact you love a transguy. I however, would just say you are an enlightened gay man. It is fair to say though, that as an intersex female who was brought up as male, and have genitals that were masculinised, Ive had no luck where romance is concerned. I did get close to one guy, but ended up losing him, probably because I was afraid to get too physically close or he'd discover about my sex organs. It is fair to say I feel Ive been cheated out of the chance of a close, loving relationship. The problem for trans/intersex people, is lots of others cannot see past their sexual anatomy, or if they're post op, the fact they once had sex organs of the opposite sex. And the only people who usually want to be with people like that, is if they've got a fetish for it. Which is a huge turn off when you're looking for love and companionship. But the fact that straight males have been attracted to me, not knowing about my condition, makes me bitter, because I know most, if not all of those males would have not been interested had they known my anatomic setup. Which is the main reason I think fear is the main thing that would stop a straight guy wanting a relationship with a trans/intersex woman. Because unknowing physical attraction definitely occurs. So definitely contrary to what most people may think, it is not only "pansexual" people who could be attracted to trans/intersex people. Have a relationship with, perhaps. But being romantically attracted to, definitely not.
Yup, this is me~ But I see no need to place a label on it~ why must we put labels on everything, why must we try define everything and then limit it by setting rules upon it?~ love is love, no love is the same~ it's that simple.~
because people can be defined. no definition is nothing at all, either someone who is everything or someone who is nothing. there you can have your 'no labels'.
This is where pansexuality is an awesome thing. People can and do fall in love with a person's personality and what's in the pants is not a deciding factor, but a means to give that person that you love sexual pleasure. What is in the pants is a literally just a tool to achieving pleasure.
Problem for me is, what's in my pants is something that I have no desire to (and indeed, I absolutely will not) use for either giving, or recieving pleasure. Not that I can really feel anything in that department anyway. So i'd need not only a pansexual person, but also an asexual person (a person who has no sexual desires), to be with. But the chances of finding someone like that are so low, that I don't see it as a realistic possibility for me. So I long ago knew that I'd have to spend my life alone and devoid of romantic companionship.
I'm trying to think how to talk to you about this and in public forum it is difficult for me to pick and choose the right words. It's late here. I'm going to take this to private message so I can just say what I mean and not censor it.
but you can at least try finding someone, if that's what you want. your chances are probably lower than an average person's but still, it's all worth giving a shot. and stuff like this doesn't come to you anyway, you gotta work some to get to it. it's like this for everybody. and what i've discovered in life is that once you get to know a person, and you really really like them, their faults, things that are disagreeable to you, start mattering less and less.
That's very difficult when I've spent my whole life avoiding people as much as I possibly can, and am very much afraid of other people. To the point where I basically have a phobia of people. To say my chances are "probably" lower than an average person's is such a gross understatement I don't think I could adequately put it into words. And saying "it's like this for everybody", is just all kinds of wrong. I'm sorry, it's just not. Most people couldn't even comprehend what I've been through, and what I'm still going through, let alone be able to relate to it. That's not even taking into account my physical issues that means only a small minority of fetishists (who I'd have absolutely no desire to be with) would find my body attractive. Finding someone who could love me despite my issues and deformities rather than someone who would be attracted to me FOR those things would be extremely difficult. Even if I was actively looking for them. For someone like me, issues relating to relationships, romance, and stuff is very far removed from what most "average" people have to deal with, so saying it's "like this for everybody" is clearly a falsehood. When "everybody" or even most people have to deal with the issues I have to face, then I'll accept it's the same for everybody. But that isn't the case, or even close to being the case. Expecting someone (who isn't celibate by choice) to abstain from sex or even any remotely sexual contact in a relationship forever, is certainly way too much to expect from most people. I think most people would see that as far more than a bit "disagreeable".
Oi Vey, Dont you think she hears that from pretty much everyone, everytime she says to someone she knew long ago she was never going to have a romantic relationship...they'll respond with the good ole head to the side "Owww, you'll find someone, theres someone out there for everyone" Bleeeerk Its worth giving it a shot? Why exactly? If finding 'the one' is the answer to everything, shouldnt those that do that be the happiest people out there? Then why are so many of them so fuckin miserable? Why does it have to be one, or any for that matter? I'm not attacking you for the fun of it, just saying what are you doing? How many times have you had a girl saying things like "Oh, dont you want a girlfriend" "Oh, dont you want to get married and have kids so you can be happy" Sometimes when the boyfriend is standing right next to you. Its the same kind of thing. Knowing what you are,having someone ignore what you are then telling you what you should believe
okay okay, sorry. no, i couldn't possibly know what it's like for you, Invisible Soul. and yes, i'm mostly aware stuff a la there's-someone-out-there-for-you is empty words. i'm just the type of person who always sees a chance in everything. and the type of person who always at least tries to get what he wants, so that's the type of point of view i promote. and, Vanilla Gorilla, i wasn't exactly advocating for finding 'the one'. just going out there, making friends, meeting people, etc, things can grow from there. but you won't even know if you never try.
