Pan

Discussion in 'Paganism' started by Sesen, Sep 8, 2005.

  1. Sesen

    Sesen Member

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    For the past two weeks I havent been able to stop thinking about the God Pan. I havent drawn a picture in more than a year, and when I decided to start back with my art and I sit down to draw it always ends up being a picture of Pan. I decided to do some research on him through the internet but so far what little information about him I can find is just repeated from website to website.

    I was wondering if anyone here worships Pan, and could give me some information about him, or point me in the direction of some websites with good information. I really appreciate any input.
     
  2. kitty fabulous

    kitty fabulous smoked tofu

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    i'm a follower of pan, but most of what i know of him is rather personal. there is a temple of pan online somewhere. have you found it yet? try avatarsearch. but by his very nature, most of what you need to know about him can only be found through direct experience.
     
  3. heron

    heron Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

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    Not to be an ass, but do either of you live in Greece, and/or raise sheep?

    Just wondering, because that is what Pan does, protects Greek sheep herders in a certain part of Greece.

    I ask because i wonder why people worship regional gods in parts of the world far distant from theirs.

    Now, do you worship him as Pan, like i defined, or as Pan, just another aspect of a horned wild god? Cause thats a whole new can of worms.
     
  4. kitty fabulous

    kitty fabulous smoked tofu

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    the deity we know of pan was greek in origin, but far more than just a horny little goat guy with a flute who hung out with shepherds. i don't have the time to go into detail now because my ride's on his way, but he's more than "just another aspect of the horned god". jason mankey did a great workshop on the horned god at the last starwood i attended, and went into great detail about pan. he had a darker side that is less widely celebrated; his name is the root of the word "panic". wish i had more time now, because this conversation could get interesting.
     
  5. heron

    heron Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

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    Pan isnt an aspect of "The Horned God" any more that anything masculine is, but he is only A "horned" god, but thats about it. He is a specific, individual nature spirit god that inhabits the wilds of Greece, and watches over shepards.

    He is a god of a specific duty, like a Saint of travel, or mercy, etc in the Catholic church. He isnt The Horned God, just a local nature spirit.
     
  6. Sesen

    Sesen Member

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    No I dont do either, nor was I planning on worshipping Pan. The only thing I knew about Pan was that he was a God with the appearance of a half-man and half-goat and had something to do with shepards. Then he started showing up in my dreams and my artwork so I wanted to learn more about him, and I figured someone that worships him as a God would probably know where to go for the best info on him since I wasnt finding much on my own.

    But since I started this thread I found out as much information on him as I was looking for, and my interest has moved on to other things. However this thread looks like it could go into an interesting direction towards the relevance of worshipping regional Gods not of your region.
     
  7. kitty fabulous

    kitty fabulous smoked tofu

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    heron, can i ask why it matters to you which deity anyone worships?
     
  8. heron

    heron Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

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    It doesnt really matter to me who you worship, i just want to know why you worship them is all. I like know peoples reasons and justifications.

    But another part of me wants to know why you worship a god that is not of your heritage, profession or region, when there are your own gods, of your own heritage, and plenty of spirits of your own area to give your thoughts to.

    Its just something that makes me wonder, its part of my research as well, I just like to know why.
     
  9. chaos

    chaos Member

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  10. Casperthesheet

    Casperthesheet Member

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  11. kitty fabulous

    kitty fabulous smoked tofu

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    heron, i really don't see any reason why i owe you justification for my chosen worship, and your argument seems a little xenophobic to me. non-greek pagans who don't happen to be local shepherds find as much inspiration and joy in the worship of pan as do contemporary followers of a certain levantine war deity. gods change, grow, die and are reborn, as do the people they guide and inspire.
     
  12. heron

    heron Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

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    I never said you owe me a reason, i merely asked.

    Your offense at the question clearly shows that you
    cant answer the question, but can only cover your
    trail with distraction.

    I didnt say you couldnt worship pan, only asked why you
    would. I just wonder why, say for example, you would
    ask your friend from California to help you move, when
    you have friends right down the street.

    I hope you can see that analogy.
     
  13. kitty fabulous

    kitty fabulous smoked tofu

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    because you are operating under the mistaken assumption that my genetic ancestors are in some way closer to me than my poetic brothers and sisters. apples and oranges, toots.



    here is your answer: (these are not my words of course, but they fit beautifully)

    Earth Psalm
    by Denise Levertov

    I could replace
    God for awhile, that old ring of candles,
    that owl's wing brushing the dew
    off my grass hair.
    If bended knee calls up
    a god, if the imagination of idol
    calls up a god, if melting
    of heart or what was written as
    bowels but has to do
    not with shit but with salutation of
    somber beauty in what is mortal
    calls up a god by recognition and power of
    longing, then in my forest
    God is replaced awhile,
    awhile I can turn from that slow embrace
    to worship mortal, the summoned
    god who has speech, who has wit
    to wreathe all words, who laughs
    wrapped in sad pelt and without hope of heaven,
    who makes a music turns the heads
    of all beasts
    as mine turns, dream-hill grass
    standing on end at echo even.


    so fucking there. (he's a bright boy, but he doesn't get it.:rolleyes: )
     
  14. heron

    heron Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

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    you are quite childish for a woman your age. I expect a little more
    maturity when discussing your faith, especially when representing
    something that means so much to you.

    Nice poem, but i would hate to know i defined my religion
    on someone elses words, or better yet, on a work of fiction.

    But different strokes i guess.

    Sorry i asked, dont worry about answering
    anymore of my questions, you are much
    to defending of your opinion, and then
    it is too disappointing to have even pursued
    to begin with.

    Take care.
     
  15. kitty fabulous

    kitty fabulous smoked tofu

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    heron, i've had about enough of your small-minded bullshit, so welcome to my ignore list. you have no right to expect anything of me. i've had enough. your'e just not worth it.
     
  16. heron

    heron Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

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    I have someone who worships as she pleases, justifies by calling it poetic, resorts to childish rants when all else fails, refuses to learn the history of her ways,
    and calls me small-minded, for expanding my knowledge of the things i
    hold sacred?

    wow, should I be offended?

    nope, because her opinion is meaningless to me.

    Try again.
     
  17. white_raven

    white_raven Member

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    If I might chime in, I'll specify my view on the whole regional gods/goddesses issue (not to imply that my way is the "right" way, I just think it's an iteresting discussion and I've never really thought about it before).

    My view of the gods and goddesses and spirts of all kinds is not so much physical entities but archetypes of the human condition. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they don't physically exist, but I do think that their existence as higher entities rises above what we can define as regional.

    Pan may physically exist in Greece, but his spirit and entity can be felt anywhere if one extends one's consciousness. This can be achieved by understanding the archetype. Once this is understood in relation to yourself, the god/dess can physically manifest regardless his/her original region.

    When I am facing an issue in my life, some problems are best diluted under the Greek paradigm which includes their pantheon, and some are best diluted under the Celtic paradigm which includes their pantheon, and others require a Native American paradigm, etc.

    Personally, I've never really recognized physical distance as a factor in invocation or communion, as space is merely an illusion which advanced consciousness can transcend. And as far as heritage, I don't really have a defined heritage (I'm a mixture of many races), so there isn't any pagan heritage that I'm inclined to.

    There is a reason that the spirits call to us. If Pan calls to the spirit, should we decline his request to understand him?

    At the same time, I do think that there is a special kind of relationship between a person and the regional gods simply because many consciousnesses have a difficult time reaching out beyond their physical space. For example, my first contacts were with Native American spirits, but as I reached out I began to get closer to other traditions and thus their deities.

    But, as I said, that's just my way, and it cannot be applied to everyone.

    And in the interest of peace, is there any way you two can just agree to disagree? There's no reason to get bent out of shape because you relate to Spirit differently.

    Namaste
     
  18. heron

    heron Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

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    I agree that I disagree, i was just asking a question, and giving my
    opion on it, I wasnt attacking anyones beliefs, just
    posting question.

    But apperently there is some taboo to questioning someones beliefs.
    I just wanted to know the "why" it is, not saying you couldnt. And
    even if i did say you "couldnt do that" i am no more incorrect than
    her saying "you can do that" because if we are all entitled to our
    beliefs, and seemingly be protected from "judgement" the why
    cant I have an opposing opinion of the same protection?

    I honestly didnt expect such a reaction, as name calling, and insult.

    BUT thats what you get sometimes.

    Anyway, i agree that I disagree, and feel perfectly justified in my opion.
     
  19. white_raven

    white_raven Member

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    I think questioning others' beliefs is great--and I do think oftentimes people get too defensive--but if we don't get the response we expect, then we just have to move on so we don't pollute ourselves with the hostility of the situation.

    We cannot be consumed by anger. No one should be granted so much power as to control our emotions.
     
  20. scrap_rat

    scrap_rat Member

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    As for Pan's nature, Porphyry writing about 1800 years ago sums it up for me, "They made Pan the symbol of the universe, and gave him his horns as symbols of sun and moon, and the fawn skin as emblem of the stars in heaven, or of the variety of the universe." (Pophyry, 'On Images', http://classics.mit.edu/Porphyry/images.html) Pan is one of the Gods I worship and the scene in the Homeric Hymn to Pan where Hermes as his proud father beams over his son goat hooves et al (in an age where fathers could reject their children for any real or imagined fault) remains one of the best depictions of fatherhood in all of the ancient texts to my knowledge.

    You might also enjoy: http://www.theoi.com/Georgikos/Pan.html

    And I agree with Shelley, "We are all Greeks." From our litterature to our democracy to Mitylene and Corinth which are just a few miles from where I live, Greece is part of the bedrock of our culture. I am an American mutt with Germanic, Slavic and Celtic ancestry... Greece and Rome are the only common experience of all three.
     

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