Overpopulation

Kandahar, Pollution and overpopulation are directly related. The more production, the more waste (and there is enough already).

Overpopulation is not just an issue of space and food.

And for now Ill take your 'huh' as a 'you got me there'. (please take the time to read that article and try and connect it to what im saying)

 

and ecozen, I agree entirely with your belief that we are in this because of technology.

Peace

 

Make up your mind. What exactly is it about an increasing world population that you find so unsettling? First you claimed that we'd run out of resources, so I provided you with lots of information that indicated that this was not the case. Now you're changing course, which is OK as long as this is actually a legitimate concern for you rather than just another attempt to make baseless criticisms of technology.

So spell it out for me. Aside from the problems you perceive regarding space and food, why is having more people a bad thing?

No, you should take the "huh" as meaning "I don't know what the hell you're even trying to say, because your post contained irrelevant, bizarre statements such as 'Let me guess, you will say that the garbage should be more evenly distributed.'"

 

You ignore this every time I post it: Why is the world population increasing? Because the death rate is falling faster than the birth rate. Why is the death rate falling? Because our science and technology allow us to live longer, healthier lives.

You've stated to me that you think technology is evil. I think technology is the best thing to ever happen to the human species, and you'd be hard pressed to find very many people who truly would want to turn back the clock 10,000 years if they had the option.

This bizarre anti-technology alliance of far-left environmentalists and far-right fundamentalists is unsettling at best and dangerous at worst. Fortunately, the trends in technology favor my point of view: continued improvement in the quality of life.

 

It kind of urcks me when I hear that people have the common belief that we would need to take a step back if we were to discontinue w/ technology... what technology are you referring to? In my mind, we could do without the majority of technology (e.g. warfare and many of today's conveniences). It seems to be the ways in which we use technology that have the greatest negative impacts and our current ideologies and beliefs in which we over-rely on technology and treat it as a remedy for our world's problems.

 

Okay, since you seem to need it.
The following is from "Our Environment: A Canadian Perspective, Second Edition"
This is the textbook I used in my University course regarding our environment.

"Many environmental problems, including air and water pollution and global climate change, transcend national bounderies - as population grows, demands for resources increase, resulting in pollution and waste being added to the biosphere."
"More population means increased energy use and the resultant escalation of problems such as global warming, acid precipitation (*thats rain*), oil spills, and nuclear waste. More population means more land is required for agriculture, housing, industrial sites, and transportation links, leading to deforestation, soil erosion, and less land for agriculture and fewer habitats for other species (contributing to their extinction, perhaps). As lands are cultivated, they become less productive than naturally vegetated areas. More population means a greater demand on water resources for drinking, irrigation, waste disposal, and industrial processes. Often there is a parallel decline in quantity or quality of the body of water used for these purposes"

Peace

 

I'm not going to really get into this debate concerning technology except to say that technology *in itself* is not a bad thing...but it has to be TRANSFORMED into something sustainable that won't further erode our failing ecosystem, which is exactly what it's doing now. Kandahar is a person who thinks of his own person gain before all else, so I wouldn't recommend paying much mind about what he says. He reminds me of a political hack working for the DNC, actually. Either way, he's nobody to take seriously...primarily because of how seriously he takes himself. He does provide a good chuckle though.
Anyway technology in itself is a good thing when fully automated, NOT relegated to a priviledged cla$$ of wealthy people mainly within the corporate sector, and used as a progressive tool to further the evolution of humankind. The way it's being implemented now is taking us down the road to ecological destruction, and with this global warming, etc., we'd better change course pretty soon with how (and why) we pursue technological advances.

In short, technology is here for a valid purpose, to be utilized by ALL people, and not just those who can afford it, and it needs to be turned into an ACCOUNTABLE technology, one that doesn't ravage the earth (while profitting already-rich executives), provides the basic resources for all human beings on this planet, and uses infinite energy sources such as solar and wind power. As renowned activist Medea Benjamin said, we need to begin moving into the Post-Fossil Fuel Era.

The class-divide that some call 'the haves and have-nots' is further perpetuated by the current abuses of technology (not to mention Big Brother which is another story altogether) and has to be made responsible for everyone, not just the elite classes of the world.

As for the population explosion...well, many researchers have CONSENSED that we are approaching a "critical mass" that is pushing the planet to its limits and that we better start backing off asap. To any logically thinking person, this is blatantly obvious. The fucking signs are all around us. People better start thinking of adoption as a mainstream lifestyle choice...because maybe soon, it won't even be a choice. Only time is gonna tell.

 

the world will NEVER be overpopulated. Countries and cities and such can become overpopulated though. People just gotta move to other places.

 

ok...yeah, the planet is just going to keep on expanding and growing bigger to accomodate all the increasing numbers of people, right Beck?

read a book.

 

hmm..well theres this one thing called DEATH. people die, theres wars, crisis, disease, and things that tend to cause people to DIE. The world will end before the year 3000 anyways. or most likely. Theres open land everywhere. People can move and settle there.

 

Umm...yes...that's a pretty accurate description of things. Obviously it doesn't literally grow bigger, but the mere fact that the population *IS* increasing shows that the world is capable of sustaining larger numbers of people as technology progresses.

There are a hundred times more people alive today than there were a few millennia ago, yet the average standard of living is immensely higher today.

 

But what happeneds when peak oil makes that technology useless.

 

Beck...again, read a book before making any claims, esp. since you have no clue what you're talking about at all.

Psy Fox, don't waste your breath. It's a lost cause. Kandahar's statistics are worth toilet paper, and substantiated by nothing.

 

I'm of the opinion that we'll never need to use that last barrel of oil. As oil becomes more rare, its price will increase. As its price increases, there will be more of a demand for developing alternative sources of energy. Simple economics really. If our technology was going to grind to a halt in the next few decades, what we'd expect to see is less and less technological development each year until we finally ran out of oil. But in fact, we're seeing the opposite: our technology is accelerating. Technological development in 2004 exceeded technological development in 2003, etc.

 

God damn it, s'il vouz plait.

Technology is not the saviour of humanity, it is the end of it.

Get out of the states, Kandahar.

 

Our technology is dependant on oil and it is not just energy, oil is needed to produce food since we have moved to industrial farming oh and alternative sources of energy won't fill in the demand.

As Ivan Illich pointed out in the last energy crisis the only solution is de-industilization to increase energy efficiency that while would means less people can be supported, the resources needed per person would be drastically lower.

 

Then we have a fundamental disagreement. Technology is the best thing to ever happen to humanity. Would you REALLY want to go back to a hunter-gatherer way of living, and all it entails?

Life expectancy is accelerating drastically, and we will soon be adding more than one year to life expectancy every year. Standards of living are rising in almost every nation in the world. The long-term trend is for energy costs to steadily fall. We've eliminated smallpox, and are close to eliminating leprosy. People have access to new and old ideas from remote regions of the world thanks to the internet. Women are gaining more rights throughout the world primarily because of access to effective birth control. The amount of lives saved through medicine far exceeds the amount of lives lost in every war in history combined. The cause of all those things? TECHNOLOGY.

I'm not saying that there aren't perils involved, but to adopt a luddite mindset is frankly dangerous as technology accelerates faster and faster. The problems of the world aren't going to be solved by trying to shut technology off and return to the "good old days" which never existed in the first place. The problems of the world will be solved by figuring out how best to use new technology, and develop it in a safe way.

Technology will not grind to a halt just because oil becomes scarce. If it did, why is the pace of technology accelerating rather than approaching an asymtote?

 

I don't know much about industrial farming, so maybe you can explain it to me. What is it that makes oil so special in this regard? What makes it the only form of energy that could possibly work? I'll bet you a nickel that there are alternatives available, at least in theory; there always are.

 

This article makes some good points about oil extraction and consumption.

http://www.overpopulation.com/faq/natural_resources/energy/oil.html

...and food supply:

http://www.overpopulation.com/faq/natural_resources/food/improving_food.html

 

Look, technology isn't totally bad...and it's not totally good. It needs to be severely changed...to benefit the ecosystem and all of humanity, but NOT eradicated. ok? case closed. LOL