Our Culture is Heading Backward

I've already given you examples. *like it's gonna do any good* Ok, here's some examples.

The whole point is about the media/culture.

1) Reality TV (most everyone shown to insult and emotionally hurt people is OK, because it's funny and promotion of physical beauty over inner beauty)
2) Talkshows (mostly daytime viewers, but are watching the same grind of incest, adultery, and all sorts of debauchery, not as in porn or a biographical or fictional film, but presented as REALITY)
3) Videos (the youth taught how to degrade people and glorify money)
4) "Professional" Wrestling (the youth and others taught to see women as trophies--ever seen the WWE?)
5) Music in general promoting women as objects, trophies or ornaments (not just rap, but a variety of areas of music)

Sure, freedom of speech is great and I am ALL FOR IT, but everyone knows the power of suggestion by the media on the youth and those who don't think for themselves.

The question isn't about censorship, but education. Educate people to treat other HUMAN BEINGS with respect. Jokes are cool. Jokes are fine. But, the line between inhumane emotional cruelty and poking fun is a fine line. Secondly, we have to teach our children to learn to respect diversity and other lifestyles.

The TV today shows most gay people stereotyped as all liking YMCA, having a lisp and wearing cheesy outfits. I know many gay people who don't do or have any of these things. It shows most black people looking like pimps or gangstas and most women as "trophies" or the ones they do present as "independent" they make it so exaggerated it's an insult.

My point is clear. We should, as a society and culture, be getting beyond the hate and elitism to point where we can joke about things, but consider what we are creating for our future and our children's minds.

 

I would just like to point out here (in favour of Libertine's point of view, which I share on this subject) that all of the above not only degrade women but they also narrow the range of acceptable motivations for male behaviour across the board, which harms men too though in perhaps a more subtle way.

ie: If you're not interested in things like women, flashy money objects, calling women in general derogatory names as a 'joke' when they aren't present etc... then you're in danger in some social circles and environments of being labelled as gay, weird, feminine and so on.

When is it ever harder in someone's life, to cut against the grain socially than in highschool?

Some don't mind this, that's ok too, but I personally find in week-to-week life that the way you are perceived by others is often shrouded by some kind of foggy mist put in place by things like what Libertine posted.
Often, once you talk to someone properly they suddenly will confide that they do understand you and think it's really cool or admirable, but then go off and continue playing the same games.
And I don't even blame them for doing so, because it's MUCH EASIER to live this way once you're used to switching your brain off in a way and handing autopilot over to consensus opinion.

Homer Simpson choice: Beer and TV on the couch, or talking with the women he loves and married, in a room with no distractions and maybe even help make something really nice to eat for dinner. Which is easier and more immediately satisfying to his type of mind?

*mmmm...beer*

 

how is this different from porn which you said was "is an industry which people choose to participate"'

1) reality tv- people choose to participate and open themselves up for criticism. Why is it bad that they then receive it?

2) I agree that shows like Jerry Springer are bad and are basically the trailer park trash of America. However, everyone involved has CHOSEN to be on air.

3) so should we not show movies with expensive cars or houses and opt for the dodges and run down apartments? Movies arent reality. We dont want to view what we have, but we DONT have.

4) yep, i've seen the WWE(well when it was the WWF). Alright, so like 25% of the show is women walking around in skimpy clothing. What is the other 75% of the show? Men walking around IN EVEN LESS. WWF had a large female audience. The women are happy to participate in it...so whats really the problem? It's corrupting our kids because the have women walking around in nothing? sure they call breasts puppies and hoot and hollar, but is this all that bad when ALL are in there by choice...making good money ontop of it.

5) and things like heavy metal and rap have often received criticism by 'society' for how they display women.

I care less about how people act on TV as they do in real life. It may be acceptable for men to hoot and hollar at girls when they go and watch the WWE in person...if a guy walks down the street and starts doing that, he'll get charged with sexual harassment. That is why i have a hard time believing that 'society' condones this type of behavior. It clearly doesn't outside of specific venues. If you don't like that, then dont watch it.

You are taking pure fantasy and trying to say its now reality. American culture extends FAR beyond the media. Do you think a book like The Iliad is corrupting society? It has pretty much everything you hate in american society: love of money, women in degraded positions, male/female roles, violence. So, do you believe this classic of all classics is ruining society by sitting in bookstores/libraries? If not, why do you care about a movie like Scarface which sums up all you hate.

Shit, you are my complete opposite. I think we've gone TOO far with political correctness.

and white men are bumbling idiots who need to be shown the way by 'women' ala Everybody Loves Raymond, King of Queens

how do we go about doing that? How do we move beyond?

 

I totally agree with this...but it's not a pure black and white issue.
What a strange world where you can get sued for touching a woman's shoulder at work or using 'innapropriate words' in public, but that most people with internet access have access to pornography depicting humans and animals, simulated rape and videos of violent deaths just to mention a few...

As far as political correctness on TV and how sex in censored and violence isn't, I think European cinema has shown that nudity, sex, love and all of the complexities contained within, which are all very human, can be shown without it being necessarily pornographic.
Television and movies could go in a much worse direction by concentrating not on the pornography of violence, but on the reality (both beautiful and the not-so-beautiful) of human sexual experience, as just one example.

As has been said countless times, how sick is it that sadistic delight in violent dismemberement of someone on screen in a movie (rocket-launchers..guns etc..) how can this be less of a threat to welfare of any kind to the viewer, than two people having sex?

I wish they'd stop with the violence and bitches and "hoes" and phallic guns, and concentrate on something else!
I'm no puritan either.

 

I agree with that, sundew. Good post.

 

Dear god you're a fucking one-track mind.

First of all, yes, you were insulting me - here you're calling me a Republican. Both were thinly-veiled, but the point got across. You apparently missed the thinly-veiled satire of insulting you frequently in a post defending society's right to make fun of people.

Moron.

To be fair, I'll explain it to you straight-out, so you can't sling it: I'm not a republican (I'm a member in good standing of the NDP), I'm not sexist (I fully support woman's equality under law - hell I went to a rally on International Woman's Day), I merely don't think it is moral to restrict media, regardless of how much you disagree with it.

 

libertine: how do you believe we should fix our society?

 

Simple.

Tolerance for other's differences while keeping respect for them.
Helping others instead of being selfish.
Treating people like people.
Taking care of our environment.

 

Your main argument is that we should censor what is on TV, right?

 

I feel sorry for you, my friend.

Does it make you feel good to use condescending speech?

Does it get you off to insult others?

I am glad I don't have to tear someone down in order to feel good about myself.

If you don't want to be compared to a Republican, don't act like one.

And I said nothing about "restricting" the media or censorship.

This is much bigger than that.

 

how do we enforce that? censorship? a slap on the wrist? verbal rebuke? monetary incentives for corporations who make 'good television?'

or education? and what if that fails?

?

 

Enforce it? Damn, you think like Republican even. *jk*

No, I think we should educate our children to respect others. Place more emphasis in programs on television, radio or print to encourage these things. I don't believe in restricting things, per se, I merely believe that surely we could come up with somethings better. Much more enriching to all humans.

I love good fiction. Good movies. But, we aren't talking censorship. We are talking of a community-minded aspect of equally tolerating and respecting differences.

Jesus, Buddha, Gandhi, and MLK were good examples to follow. It's about expanding and opening one's mind and helping others to do the same--not censorship or enforcement.

It's about respect, not disrespect.

 

i try to be practical. I don't see how we could do this without a national effort(from the government). Too many people enjoy the junk tv to just change.

 

Sure, the government should promote these things, but not censor people. It should be a gradual process with the younger generation and perhaps incentives for positive programming (sure).

I don't care if you have violence in movies. Showing violence is showing reality, but glorifying or promoting violence is another issue altogether.

We wouldn't promote a tv show glorifying child rape, would we? Would you want to see that? No, of course not. But, there are films about it--they just don't glorify it.

So why glorify degradation of women? Why glorify hostility?

Now talk to me about being practical.

 

what about the bad guys perspective!

 

What bad guys?

Murderers? Molestors? Rapists?

Obviously, we're seeing the sexist perspective now.
And the greed-monger's.
And the hostile person's.
And the war-monger's.

 

Once again, I don't really give two shits about what you think of me.

To be completely fair, you're trying to tear me down right now. The irony is too much.

If you don't want to be compared to people with deficient sub-70 IQ levels, think harder.

Well, no it isn't - because media is directly related to society's views.

On one hand, you can argue that the media causes society's beliefs - in which case the only real solution to change those beliefs would be censorship.

Or oppositely, you can argue that the media is reflective of society's views - in which case things are perfectly ok as they are.

 

"Be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi

"Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true. Power at its best is love implementing the demands of justice. Justice at its best is love correcting everything that stands against love. " - MLK Jr.

You must've misunderstood. I have explained it thoroughly and you have ignored this to INSIST on your either/or fallacy. Is it to promote some hidden desire to keep women and other people "in their place" ?

You are obviously so passionate about censoring my defense of women's rights and attacks on greed and hate that you have to resort to name-calling, fallacies, straw men, dredging up some fantasy that you are being attacked by me and all these crazy paranoid delusions. Did I strike a nerve or something by defending women's rights? By speaking out against hate and elitism? By attacking greed--the philosophy that we are prone to judge success by the index of our salaries or the size of our automobile rather than by the quality of our service and relationship to mankind?

Why be so angry over someone who wants justice for ALL people? Why try to act as if the injustice doesn't exist? Why choose to stand against those who believe that we should attempt to education our children to love and eventually end hate and hostility in our culture?

The media is BOTH a reflection and an influence. PEOPLE need to change through education and turning on to love and peace. Separation of art from reality makes both more valuable.

Your either/or fallacy is just that--a fallacy. Censorship is not the only answer. Social change through promotion of greater values is--tolerance, diversity, love, peace, etc.

Violations of these result in finding out the causes of these problems and addressing them appropriately.

PS. Keep posting. You're a living example of what I am speaking of.

 

yeah. and the funny thing is that one of the most liberal networks MTV...is partially to blame

 

Partially, yes. You are correct.

MTV sends a mixed message to kids.