Our Culture is Heading Backward

i think it is natural to 'admire' or 'romanticize' the bad...jesse james, billy the kid...al capone....tony montana...don corleone, we think about things we arent. Most guys arent super slick/sexy and have girls literally falling at our feet...so we dream about it and put it in movies. We arent gun fighters..so we glorify it in westerns. We arent bad guys who always speak our mind...so we let tony montana do it for us.

i think you're talking about rap...and rap receives large condemnation. Every guy on TV isnt calling a girl a ho or a bitch or a slut. And when they do use those words, it is used in a way that 'empowers' women. Obviously not all the time..but the majority.

 

Indeed, cooloner. That's exactly what I was getting at.

Megara, people have romanticized the "bad" in art and in their mind and that isn't what I am saying. I don't care if people love the "bad guys and gals". Shit, I have a few affinities towards the "rebel" myself, but it's not the rebel I am speaking of.

It is not the rebel badguy, but the conformist badguy. When I say the disrespect of women, I am not referring to a comedy film. I am referring to the general presentation of them as mere objects and ornaments. I am referring to the glorification of money as being the defining difference in the "value" of people. I am referring to the hostility which seems to be glorified on "reality" tv and talkshows--this isn't the Godfather, this is supposed to be "real", but it glorifies and romanticizes hostility and hatred.

Not cool.

 

Just like the fake "reality" tv shows.

 

You called me pro-slavery. I think that counts.

I'm not a hippie. I don't need a philosophy dictated by abstract, 30-year old ideals.

 

Ok. Let's see here:

LIBERTINE: (in question form directed at Spooner due to his apparent support of the culture's degradation of women) "I guess you support society's "right" to choose slavery back in the earlier centuries too, huh?"

SPOONER'S analysis: I CALLED him "pro-slavery".

Man, are you Republican? Only a Republican can spin something that bad. Ha ha!

Well, for a non-hippie, you sure like to stay in Hippyland, don't you?

Pardon my assumptions for believing that you (being here) believed in the Hippie philosophy of love, peace and equal justice for all.

 

It is media, no one is really presented in great light. Look at a lot of the shows on tvs, the guys are bumbling idiots and women are the smart, rational ones.

I think you're focusing too much on one thing and not seeing the big picture.

I will agree that shows like Jerry Springer are not "good" for society and are pretty sickening that we laugh as people fight on stage.

 

The big picture? I'm not seeing the "big picture"?

What, then, is the "big picture"? Please. I want to see it.

 

you are focusing on the corner of a painting and saying it is the whole painting.

 

So, show me the whole painting. I want to "expand" my mind.

 

you want me to describe American culture? That would take 100 books, if it was even possible.

A cop out? yeah, but the truth nonetheless.

You make society out to be some evil puppet master that displays women as dumb bitches who are to be 'won' by all conquering, perfect male heroes.

That is not even close to reality.

 

To quote Thoreau in your signature, but then to also make the statement above seems to be a real shame.

 

Ok, well I guess I was wrong.

You showed me. All I see is non-existent.

Everything has been accomplished. Equality reigns supreme.

Especially for the "bitches" and "hos".

 

If you havent noticed, women walk around in shirts declaring that they're bitches. Listen to some women on this forum who call themselves bitches. They've turned the word around and used it as a mark of pride.

is it right? maybe yes, maybe no. But the context in which the word is used matters as much as the word chosen.

 

you dont even give ANY examples, let alone anything that could be construed as a comprehensive analysis of "Society."

You use "Society" like george bush uses "Terror." It is a mystery to us all, a great big boogeyman that no one has to prove.

 

Oh, so now I'm George Bush?

I gave examples. You ignored them.

Anyone who calls a woman these names, has this viewpoint or apathy towards it is a LIVING example. How's that?

Apparently, it's no big deal to you. It is to me and several women (and other men) here too.

Why do you INSIST on trivializing it?

 

wow, i dont know how you construed that i called you george bush.

No, i want examples in popular culture. Books, movies, music.

I have a feeling your examples are all going to lead you to rap and porn.

So let me get this right...if ONE person calls a girl a 'ho' than society is heading backwards? Wow. Our country will never move forward then.

 

Yep, that's all it is. One person calling a girl a "ho".

Porn? I wouldn't even say that. Porn is an industry which people choose to participate. Sure there are abuses, but there are abuses in anything. The POINT is that these "abuses", not choices, are WIDELY TOLERATED and PROMOTED throughout society through not just rap, but all sorts of media.

What if I gave you three examples? So what? That's still not going to open your eyes to realize that the glorification of degrading women, being rich and famous, and having "stuff" others don't have and shining it in their faces are against everything that we who love peace, harmony, and equality have fought for.

You think it's cool? You think it's ok? I hate that you feel that way, but it's your beef. My beef is to help bring change where we don't have to tear others down to build ourselves up, where money doesn't make you a "better" person, and where people get equal treatment in all situations which call for it.

 

sure, provide three examples of "mainstrain" society glorifying the degredation of women. it will go a long way to proving your point. I'm curious what you will come up with.

You have to remember that TV isnt reality. It may be funny to watch Paris hilton make some stupid remark about being rich infront of some poor people on TV(people who have VOLUNTEERED to put themselves in the spotlight), but if you ask people what they think of condescending rich people in real life, chances are they'll respond calling them dicks. I know i would.

 

Go to a suburban shopping mall, an office, or myspace.com...
If this connection has never occured to you i'd be surprised.

Go to an average American/English/"Western" suburban neighbourhood and what scene do you think you'd find at about 8:30pm on a given weeknight?
Lights dim, silent humans watching canned laughter.

Tv isn't reality no, but heroin isn't reality either for a drug addict.

After all, their lives could often actually consist not of heroin intoxication, but of trying to get money to buy heroin.

Try taking a walk beside a major roadway into a big city one morning at around 7am.
Look at the faces.
Do they look happy?
Many are also trying to get money, to buy what their drug has told them they should buy in order to be happy. (And the latter even occurs whilst in a measurably altered state of consciousness)

 

*pats everyone that posted in this forum on the head*